As hunters do you think it is ethical to be referred to a taxidermist by a PH/Outfitter because the PH/Outfitter receives a commission from the Taxidermist?
Or should the hunter be given a choice based on the quality of the Taxidermist's work ?

A refferal does not remove the choice from the hunter. It is always the hunters choice as to where the taxidermy is done.

I would think it would be unethical if the outfitter mislead a hunter as to the quality level of the work or customer relations.

Kickbacks in the taxidermy industry to get work I think is wrong. If a taxidermist always did quality work in a timely way why would he pay kickbacks? Answer: because he always needs new clients the old ones don't come back. Who knows of a good taxidermist that isn't overloaded with work? The really good taxidermists do not pay kickbacks. I don't blame the outfitters; they are only trying to make an extra free dollar. Grafton has a point but after a good hunt a client trusts his new outfitter friend and I am sure 99.9% forget to mention they are being paid for the referal to the hunter. It IS a Pandoras box.

I have never received or payed for a referral and I guess I really do not know how I feel about this. If the taxidermist charges more to cover this and the hunter is not aware of this then I have a problem with it too. Then the hunter is paying for something that is not necessary for "taxidermy." Im sure it could be rationalized and thought of as "overhead" but If it is not "necessary" then I would not view the same as I do essential costs.

For those taxidermists that do this, how much are we talking about here?

The more I think about this subject, the more I realize I need more information about it to determine if I think it could be ethical.

Hey, nobody gives a crap when their General Medicine Practitioner is paid a referral fee when he sends you off to see a specialist and many times it is simply not necessary, but they are trying to make a buck off of you too. Keep things in perspective...if you ain't complaining to your doctor about the fee don't complain about your PH either.

10% is standard. I will repeat that a good taxidermist does not need to pay kickbacks and they generally charge more anyway. Poor ones and the ones that never expect to do business with a client more than once seem to have to. I have been a taxidermist for over 30 years and I have seen them come and "go- out" and the ones that go the fastest have paid kickbacks. I'll also say that most outfitters and PH's that I have known that count on repeat business do not give a hoot about recieving a kickback, they only care that thier client hunter is happy and the taxidermist does his job well so the client isn't calling him and complaining. www.jamesmarsico.com

I agree with Sculptor, in that the main priority should be to give the client a quality hunt followed by quality taxidermy work so that the client will come and hunt with the PH again and have his work done by the same taxidermist. Do PH's pay taxidermists a commission when the Client comes back to hunt with him because he has a great looking trophy on his wall?

If your quality and integrity are good, there is no need for kickbacks. In 20 yrs full time I've never need kickbacks to get work.

This practice goes on and is not illegal. I never liked it and do not practice it. There are no rich taxidermists out there, so they need what money they can earn and not pay off some joker to send him business.

Im going to be the other side of the coin here. I do pay commissions, I am successful, I do quality work, but Im always interested in growing my business. I pay a commission of 10% to outfitters that use me exclusively as a referal. The client has the choice of using me or taking it somewhere else. The outfitter also has the option of dropping me and going with someone else if my work doesn't measure up. My work is in his lodge so that the client can see my quality compared to someone else and it works. Last year I picked up a guy that brought over 50 pieces into the shop. That translated into some $25,000 in additional revenue less a 10% commission.

Heres something to remember, one day your outfitter will want you to mount something for them. If you didn't pay them a commission for the tens of thousands of dollars of work they refered to you, theyre going to want you to do thier work for free or at a huge discount. If you don't, they will start referring their hunters to someone else. By setting up a commission ahead of time, you are in a business arrangement that you control and isn't open to negotiation. If you don't set up your guidelines ahead of time, youll end up losing your shirt.

I do the 10% referral to good clients as well. If a guy refers me and takes the time to bring a new client to my shop, he gets 10% off his next piece. I never pay cash out.

I can promise you, with few exceptions, this is the standard practice for most outfitters. That isnt a slam on them, its just the way its done. But you as the hunter have the option of asking to see some of the shops in the area before making your decision. If your outfitter is really pushing you to go to "his guy" be careful. Your eye should be able to tell you if his guy is the best and if he isnt keep walking.

That's the arrangement I have with my outfitters. He tells the client he has a guy that does good work and its hanging here in the lodge. We can go to his shop to look around and if you want, you can leave it there.

Hugh

I am the vice chair person of TASA, Taxidermist Association of Southern Africa.
Commissions being paid is part of the problem of the South African Taxidermist industry and it's immage abroad. As quite rightly stated, it is not necessarily the quality of work making the difference between getting the business ot not, but the amount of commission paid.
Lets however not forget that the client forms part of the problem. It is he who ultimately spends the money and has the choice of Taxidermist. Visiting taxidermists should form an integral part of his safari to have a look at their work. In fact he must demand it from his PH. He should not be happy with the trophies displayed in the taxidermists show room but ask to see a finished product which just camne off the line and awaits shipping.
He should ask the taxidermist straight forward if he is paying commission. If he does the client has the right to demand this commission as a reduction in price rather than it being paid to the PH. In the end it would be he who pays it in the first place.