I have a few items I have no use for. Are they of value? If so how much and where?

Cape Buffalo Bull Capes (2), untanned.
Bull elepant feet (4), untanned.
Kudu Bull Cape, untanned.
Croc full skin less skull. He was 13'2", untanned.

Thanks for any help.

Offer them up for sale with a price that will make you happy.

Untanned are worth far less as the buyer takes the tanning risk and extra shipping cost for the weight of the items.

What the heck. Bull ele feet. Anybody with $200 + ups can have them (obo).

Post it in the for sale section of www.taxidermy.net

Suggest you check the wording of your import permits to see if you're allowed to sell/commercially trade the items. Especially the elephant items.

Just in case any of those nice people from USF&WS are reading the forum.

No problem selling any of it, you just can't sell the tusks.

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Huffaker:
No problem selling any of it, you just can't sell the tusks.

Yep

Guys, I hope you won't mind my correcting you.

It's not just the tusks that the trade ban refers to but to all products derived from the (sport hunted) animal.

If you doubt me, read the import licence or consult the CITES website..... but good luck with that because it's an absolute pig fuck of a thing.

Alternatively, consult the USF&WS.

Depending on your income bracket you might be better off donating them to a school or some other educational purpose and take a tax write off.

I would avoid offering any cities animal part for sale across state lines as "offering for sale" is stated to be as equally illegal as is selling in some state and federal regs.

Best regards
Mike Ohlmann
Mike's Custom Taxidermy Inc.
4102 Cane Run Rd.
Louisville KY 40216
502-448-1309
Mike@mikescustomtaxidermy.com

Somebody better tell Will then, he's been selling belts and wallets on here for years.

This is all from the latest CITES regs. It appears there is no limitation on selling elephant parts ONCE IT IS LEGALLY IMPORTED INTO THE U.S. Pertinent part ins BOLD.


_______________________________________________

§ 23.74 How can I trade internationally in
personal sport-hunted trophies?
(a) U.S. and foreign general
provisions. Except as provided for
personal and household effects in §
23.15, the import, export, or re-export of
sport-hunted trophies of species listed
under CITES must meet the
requirements of this section and the
other requirements of this part (see
subparts B and C for prohibitions and
application procedures).
(b) Sport-hunted trophy means raw or
tanned parts of a specimen that was
taken by a hunter, who is also the
importer, exporter, or re-exporter,
during a sport hunt for personal use. It
may include the bones, claws, hair,
head, hide, hooves, horns, meat, skull,
teeth, tusks, or any taxidermied part,
including, but not limited to, a rug or
taxidermied head, shoulder, or full
mount. It does not include articles made
from a trophy, such as worked,
manufactured, or handicraft items for
use as clothing, curios, ornamentation,
jewelry, or other utilitarian items.
(c) Use after import. You may use
your sport-hunted trophy after import
into the United States as provided in §
23.55.
(d) Quantity and tagging. The
following provisions apply to the
issuance and acceptance of U.S. and
foreign CITES documents:
(1) The number of trophies that one
hunter may import in any calendar year
for the following species is:
(i) No more than two leopard
(Panthera pardus) trophies.
(ii) No more than one markhor (Capra
falconeri) trophy.
(iii) No more than one black
rhinoceros (Diceros bicornis) trophy.
(2) Each trophy imported, exported, or
re-exported must be marked or tagged in
the following manner:
(i) Leopard and markhor: Each raw or
tanned skin must have a self-locking tag
inserted through the skin and
permanently locked in place using the
locking mechanism of the tag. The tag
must indicate the country of origin, the
number of the specimen in relation to
the annual quota, and the calendar year
in which the specimen was taken in the
wild. A mounted sport-hunted trophy
must be accompanied by the tag from
the skin used to make the mount.
(ii) Black rhinoceros: Parts of the
trophy, including, but not limited to,
skin, skull, or horns, whether mounted
or loose, should be individually marked
with reference to the country of origin,
species, the number of the specimen in
relation to the annual quota, and the
year of export.
(3) The export permit or re-export
certificate or an annex attached to the
permit or certificate must contain all the
information that is given on the tag.

23.55 How may I use a CITES specimen
after import into the United States?
You may use CITES specimens after
import into the United States for the
following purposes:

*****
If the species is listed in:
(a) Appendix I, except for specimens imported with a CITES exemption
document listed in paragraph (d) of this section.
(b) Appendix II with an annotation for noncommercial purposes where
other specimens of that species are treated as if listed in Appendix I.
(c) Appendix II and threatened under the ESA, except as provided in a
special rule in §§ 17.40 through 17.48 or under a permit granted
under §§ 17.32 or 17.52.

Allowed use after import:
The specimen may be used, including a transfer, donation, or exchange, only for noncommercial purposes.
*****
If the species is listed in:
(d) Appendix I, and imported with a CITES exemption document as follows:
(1) U.S-issued certificate for personally owned wildlife.
(2) Pre-Convention certificate.
(3) Export permit or re-export certificate for wildlife from a registered
commercial breeding operation.
(4) Export permit or re-export certificate for a plant from a registered
nursery or under a permit with a source code of ‘‘D.’’
(5) U.S.-issued traveling-exhibition certificate.
(e) Appendix II, other than those in paragraphs (b) and (c) of this section.
(f) Appendix III.

Allowed use after import:
The specimen may be used for any purpose, except if the regulations
in this part or other parts of this subchapter or a permit condition allowed
the import only for noncommercial purposes, then the import
and subsequent use must be only for noncommercial purposes.

********

Populations of Botswana, Namibia, South Africa and Zimbabwe (listed in Appendix II):

For the exclusive purpose of allowing:

a) trade in hunting trophies for non-commercial purposes;
b) trade in live animals to appropriate and acceptable destinations, as defined in Resolution Conf. 11.20, for Botswana and Zimbabwe and for in situ conservation programmes for Namibia and South Africa;
c) trade in hides;
d) trade in hair;
e) trade in leather goods for commercial or non-commercial purposes for Botswana, Namibia and South Africa and for non-commercial purposes for Zimbabwe;
f) trade in individually marked and certified ekipas incorporated in finished jewellery for non-commercial purposes for Namibia and ivory carvings for non-commercial purposes for Zimbabwe;
g) trade in registered raw ivory (for Botswana, Namibia, South Africa and Zimbabwe, whole tusks and pieces) subject to the following:

i) only registered government-owned stocks, originating in the State (excluding seized ivory and ivory of unknown origin);
ii) only to trading partners that have been verified by the Secretariat, in consultation with the Standing Committee, to have sufficient national legislation and domestic trade controls to ensure that the imported ivory will not be re-exported and will be managed in accordance with all requirements of Resolution Conf. 10.10 (Rev. CoP14) concerning domestic manufacturing and trade;
iii) not before the Secretariat has verified the prospective importing countries and the registered government-owned stocks;
iv) raw ivory pursuant to the conditional sale of registered government-owned ivory stocks agreed at CoP12, which are 20,000 kg (Botswana), 10,000 kg (Namibia) and 30,000 kg (South Africa);
v) in addition to the quantities agreed at CoP12, government-owned ivory from Botswana, Namibia, South Africa and Zimbabwe registered by 31 January 2007 and verified by the Secretariat may be traded and despatched, with the ivory in paragraph g) iv) above, in a single sale per destination under strict supervision of the Secretariat;
vi) the proceeds of the trade are used exclusively for elephant conservation and community conservation and development programmes within or adjacent to the elephant range; and
vii) the additional quantities specified in paragraph g) v) above shall be traded only after the Standing Committee has agreed that the above conditions have been met; and
h) no further proposals to allow trade in elephant ivory from populations already in Appendix II shall be submitted to the Conference of the Parties for the period from CoP14 and ending nine years from the date of the single sale of ivory that is to take place in accordance with provisions in paragraphs g) i), g) ii), g) iii), g) vi) and g) vii). In addition such further proposals shall be dealt with in accordance with Decisions 14.77 and 14.78.

On a proposal from the Secretariat, the Standing Committee can decide to cause this trade to cease partially or completely in the event of non-compliance by exporting or importing countries, or in the case of proven detrimental impacts of the trade on other elephant populations.

All other specimens shall be deemed to be specimens of species included in Appendix I and the trade in them shall be regulated accordingly.

Some other reading on the topic:

http://www.fws.gov/internation...Ivory_Fact_Sheet.pdf

http://www.fws.gov/internation...s/afe/pdf/salaet.pdf

http://www.fws.gov/international/laws/aeca_fv.html

As I understand it, sport hunted trophies fall under 2355B which is trophies imported for non commercial trophies and therefore cannot be commercially traded.

What it boils down to is that CITES consider the entire animal at risk rather than just the tusks.

Madabula actually raises a good point in that (I assume) that trading across state lines in the US would probably involve additional charges. That Lacey Act is a real SOB for the unwary.

I read "noncommercial purposes" as it can not be sold. Also many states have laws regarding the sale of endangered species or parts. This means even if OK on the federal level, it may not be allowed in your state. No doubt in my mind this kind of thing goes on unregulated all the time but I read the rules as Shakari does. I would want something in writing from both USFWS and the state before attemting the sale or purchase like this. When you can ask multiple people who should know (regulating authorities) and you get lots of different answers: BE CAREFUL and CYA.

quote:

All other specimens shall be deemed to be specimens of species included in Appendix I and the trade in them shall be regulated accordingly.

That's not the way I read it in regards to "Populations of Botswana, Namibia, South Africa and Zimbabwe (listed in Appendix II):"

This from the end of the info on those elephants: "All other specimens shall be deemed to be specimens of species included in Appendix I and the trade in them shall be regulated accordingly."

So it seems to me, the elephants from those countries come under 23.55e and not b. as such, this applies:

Allowed use after import:
The specimen may be used for any purpose, except if the regulations in this part or other parts of this subchapter or a permit condition allowed the import only for noncommercial purposes, then the importand subsequent use must be only for noncommercial purposes.

I'd recommend extreme caution.

Check from 5.45 - 730 here: http://video.google.com/google...833865&hl=en&fs=true

Get it wrong and you could easily end up very deep in the smelly brown stuff.

OW

I think you'll find that all sport hunted elephant trophies will be classified as non commercial imports and therefore cannot be traded.

I think you'll also find that commercial trade in elephant products is totally banned with the exception of the occasional sale by special permit as are granted to some game depts occasionally that allows them to auction off ivory and skin stocks from culling and confiscation etc.

I think you'll also find that the USF&WS only allow (elephant) import from Botswana, Namibia, South Africa and Zimbabwe.

There are other countries that have perfectly legitimate CITES quota but the USF&WS make their own rules and ignore those other quotas.

Think of it another way.

In about 1980 CITES banned ALL commercial trade in ALL elephant products. (wrongly IMO but that's by the by)

They then allowed some countries to have limited sport hunting quota where individual hunters could import their hunting trophies. However, if they could be traded it would obviously circumvent the trade ban.

Since the original ban they have on occasion allowed those one off sales I mentioned but each one has to have individual permission.

I just fired off this to the proper USWFS office. I'll let you know what I hear.

*****

Hello,

I'm an outdoor writer and have a question on the sale of imported wildlife parts in the U.S.

I have reveiwed all of the pertinent CITES info, and so far, I'm finding some conflicting information in regards to whether it is legal to sell parts (feet, hide, etc.)of a LEGALLY acquired, sport-hunted elephant from Botswana, Namibia, South Africa and Zimbabwe once it is imported into the U.S. with the proper CITES permits, etc.

Obviously, I realize the sale wouldn't be legal in states where NO wildlife parts can be legally sold. So I'm referring only to the federal statutes.

So let's say I imported a legal specimen, and that I wish to sell the feet to someone who needs a couple ashtrays or stools. Legal or not?

Thank you.

I'll bet you a bottle of Ardbeg malt whisky (payable if we ever meet) that I'm right?

quote:

Under the 1997 decision, only Zimbabwe was allowed to export elephant skins. In June 1998, Zimbabwe sold 22 lots of dry, salted elephant hides, ears, trunks, and feet. The hides, accumulated since the 1989 ban, weighed 82.8 metric tonnes. Most of the hides were sold to companies in the United States and Japan. In the United States, elephant-hide cowboy boots are now offered by Tony Lama and Justin.

Right or wrong, elephant hide cowboy boots are commonly available (for a price)in the US.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

quote:

Under the 1997 decision, only Zimbabwe was allowed to export elephant skins. In June 1998, Zimbabwe sold 22 lots of dry, salted elephant hides, ears, trunks, and feet. The hides, accumulated since the 1989 ban, weighed 82.8 metric tonnes. Most of the hides were sold to companies in the United States and Japan. In the United States, elephant-hide cowboy boots are now offered by Tony Lama and Justin.

Right or wrong, elephant hide cowboy boots are commonly available (for a price)in the US.

That's correct buddy but they're not sport hunted trophies and the leather is sold under special permit issued by CITES to (usually) the game dept and the skin derived from animals taken as part of a cull.

Where a hunter imports sport hunted (elephant) trophies they are imported under a sport hunted quota and permit issued by CITES via (in the case of the USA) USF&WS.

If you check the permit or the CITES conditions on their website, you'll find it says the trophies may not be commercially traded.

All that said, an awful lot of leather that's sold as elephant hide around the world is often other leathers that have been coloured and stamped to look like elephant leather.