Just wondering what taxidermists think.

Question:
Do most hunters recognize quality work?

Choices:
Yes
No
95% wouldn't know a good job if it kicked him in the......

 

What I see as NOT quality taxidermy work but just OK another non taxidermist will most times in my opinion and experience see as great quality. A taxidermist will see the details there or not there others most likely will not unless it is pointed out to them. Many, MANY times I have delivered taxidermy mounts and had the client want me to see his other work by so and so that has now closed his shop, retired, died and or gone out of business. They are always so proud of the "quality" taxidermy they already have and most times I have to bite my tongue and cringe to myself when I see it. I would never ruin their day but honestly 9 out of 10 times the taxidermy is sub standard or just OK production work. Exceptions? Of course, about one out of ten times. If the client is happy with it and thinks it is "quality" taxidermy why should I say differently? Business rule # one: The customer is always right.

In my experience, a vast majority of hunters don't know quality and almost as many don't care. One reason I'm expensive, I want the guys that care.

my trophy room has 18 ft ceiling, so some mounts are 10 plus feet above my head. do you really think at that distance, anyone can tell the difference between exhibition quality and commercial quality work?

A good taxidermist can.

jdollar yes we can, and if that's your train of thought, then this proves the poll that hunters don't care. I'll hang em high so you don't have to see em'. hahahaha

I am not a taxidermist, i wish i had that kind of artistic ability, sadly, i do not. however, i believe i am one of the hunters that really really care what my taxidermy looks like. however, i know what i think looks good on whitetails, but little else.

i am big on the detail around the eyes, and do they look natural. not puffy, not flat. i hate deer that look 'sleepy', especially in an alert ears out pose. i think a lot of times some mounts just don't 'look right' to me, but since i'm not in the business, i can't really put my finger on it. there are obvious mistakes i've seen, bunched up sew line on the back of the neck, leftover glue particles in the nose. no muscle definition whatsoever, etc...

so as taxidermists, what are some of the things you look for when assessing quality? this may help me, the consumer, decide who to take their work to. I have seen some excellent pictures of mounts on this website. but while searching for a taxidermist to mount my antleope (if successful next week), i have seen what i think are horrible mounts on some websites. so if a quick website search helps weed out potential taxidermists, what are some things we should be looking for when we want real quality work, and don't mind paying for it.

A good mount looks alive! I mounted this buck for the Wyoming Outfitters Assco. and it is part of a diorama in Washington DC at the Natural History Musuem. This photo of the mount was taken near my home here in Wyoming.

sculptor, That is a very, very nice antelope! It truly looks alive.

I currently have 42 mounts and another 24 waiting to be mounted. Trips to Africa can add animals in a hurry. I have had at least 6 taxidermists do work for me. The same taxidermist has done all my work for the pase 15-20 yrs.

My first mounts were done in the early 70's. Taxidermy materials have greatly improved since then.

When I got my first mounts, I thought they were great. As I put more mounts on the wall, I could begin to see differences. I then looked more critically at a taxidermist's work before I took work to him. I consider my current taxidermist an artist.

Now if I could only get the work back a little quicker...

Thanks, Turn around time is a Catch 22 affair with most every decent taxidermist I know. You can only do what you can do and then hire help, wholesale out, etc. and then as most studios get to big that is what usually starts the slight downhills in quailty control. Not aways, but usually. I get most of my work out in eight months to a year but a few out to 14 months on large orders. Thats the max. Wild sheep shoulder mounts in 90 to 120 days. I also sculpt bronze limited editions and complete one to three commission sculptures every year. Mine is a family studio, wife, son, myself.

sculptor,

Wyoming has a 12 month turn around law, how do you get around this?

If the Wyoming taxidermist quotes in writing on the work contract how long it might take there is zero problem and no violation. The only way a client can complain to the Wyoming Game and Fish and the only way they will take any action is if no contract agreement is in place and all other client to taxidermist relations have failed. I do lots of taxidermy for the Wyoming Game and Fish dept and I have been in business here since 1976. I am known and trusted. Again I would say 98% of my work is completed in about 9 months anyway. This is not a communist country.

quote:

Originally posted by george roof:
A good taxidermist can.

that may be but i am not a good taxidermist and neither are any of my friends or anyone else who is likely to be coming into my house. so why should i pay a premium price for exhibition quality work? i appreciate every mount on my walls for the memories they engender, not for the ribbons they WON'T WIN. you are right - I DON'T CARE as long as it looks reasonably life like.

I am not a taxidermist, but it appears every taxidermist thinks others work is inferior to his or hers. I do know that just because it take a couple of years for a taxidermist to complete the work does not in and of its self make their work good. One of the best (Marcus Zimmerman) turns his work around in 4 months and if it is really busy time maybe 6 months. In all fairness Marcus has done about 10% of my trophies.

I'd like to see some of those reasonably lifelike mounts jdollar. I don't think i'm superior to anyone. I've been doing taxidermy for 5 years. I've got a lot to learn, but I do a damn nice commercial mount that looks alive and I'm always striving to do better. That's why I compete. If your taxidermist doens't go to shows or compete at some point in his career, chances are his work is mediocre at best. Ribbons are surely ego driven, but having an ego in the taxidermy industry is a good thing, it brings about good quality taxidermy. That's all I care about, a nice clean lifelike mount with a customer smile. (And a good paycheck to go along with it )

jdollar, Sculptor couldn't have said it any better. I've used a story on the taxidermy webstite but I'll use it here. It's the story of an ugly baby.

We've all seen them. Someone pushes a picture on you of a monkey without a banana and he tells you that this is "his baby" and "isn't he just gorgeous". You know the kid is ugly as homemade snot, but you see no reason to be honest. You say, "he's cute" and move on while thinking to yourself that all this kid needed was a few vines to climb on. Yet do you ever think what people think of YOUR baby? None of us ever have "ugly babies". It's always someone else's, right?

Taxidermy is like that in many cases. You invite someone into your home and show them your trophies with this big Chesshire cat grin and put them in a precarious situation.

I always considered my own personal work "average". I ran into two well respected taxidermists (Richard Christoforo and Joe Coombs) who told me to NEVER say that. Then I started to see what "average" work looked like and got the message. Now I just say I'm a "better than average" taxidermist. I say that because I'm nowhere near the pinnacle of my profession like Sculptor is and a few of the true artisans I've seen.

As a NON-TAXIDERMIST, you need to look only as far as the face of your animal.
(1) Does it "follow you around the room?" Then the eyes are not set properly and likely are cheap eyes to begin with.
(2)From underneath (you high ceiling guys) can you see under the lips or under the eyelids? First indication of poor taxidermy work. The hide has pulled as it's dried. It either wasn't glued properly or wasn't monitored closely enough while it dried.
(3) When you look at your mount from the muzzle straight on, are the nostrils, eyes, and ear butts in a rough straight line with each other? If not, the ear butts are placed improperly. Some may not even HAVE ear butts, but they should all align as an indicator.
(4) Grasp the ears between your index finger and your thumb. Are they less than 1/4 inch thick? If they are greater than that, the ear has likely "drummed". That means that the skin wasn't properly glued to an earliner or that the material used to fill the ear has disbonded for some reason. Do you feel lumps and bumps under the skin of the ear? Likely the ear was "Bondoed" to serve as an earliner and the Bondo wasn't smoothed out properly.
(5) Is the hair groomed and clean? Does the mount "smell"? Another sign of shoddy work. A good mount will have a mild lanolin or leather odor or no odor at all. You should never find dried ticks or lice under the hair. Any putrid smell means that the hide was not properly prepared and that meat has been left under the skin someplace. If the antlers/horns have blood on them, that means they weren't washed properly before mounting. Another bad sign.
(6) Can you see up inside the nostrils? In olden days, we simply filled the nostrils (and "tearducts") with embalming wax. That's totally unacceptable today. The nose as well as any lacrymal glands should have some "depth" of definition there. Anything else is poor workmanship.
(7) On lifesized work, is there a smooth transition of the body, are the legs and leg muscles defined and MOST IMPORTANTLY, is there a smooth and logical transition of the leg to the hoof/foot of the animal. Wrinkles as signs of poor work (Much African work has wrinkles because of a combination of natural appearance and the lack of stretch in African game leather, but that's different.) If you have a wrinkle between the ankle and the foot, it means the taxidmist didn't mount it properly or he tightened the bolts down too tight which "scrunched" the legs up. Delicate hoofed animals like the pronghorn and whitetail are especially susceptible to this mistake. Look for it.

I'm sure there are many other issues to tell a great job from a poor one, but these will get you through most of what you asked for.

thanks george for the tips. the ear buds.. is this the base of the ear?

yes earbutts are the muscles at the base of the ears to control movement.

Here's a deer that I shot 4 years ago and just mounted in May. I brought it to my local show and I competed in the professional division in which I recieved a 90. My first blue ribbon. But to be 100% honest, I didn't do much more with this deer than I do with my commercial pieces. All my customer deer look like this. Is it perfect? Not even close. Does it look nice and clean and lifelike? Yeah I think so and so did the judge. I know what its problems are, but it allows me to give my client a lifelike mount. now sculptor and george can surely pick it apart in a heartbeat in a competition sense. Most clients can't beacause all of the main features are pretty much represented well. That's the goal with good quality commercial work.

Sorry about my smile, I was goofing with my father

quote:

Originally posted by rjrtaxidermy:
If your taxidermist doens't go to shows or compete at some point in his career, chances are his work is mediocre at best.

Rj, and what of us who live and work in Countries that dont have these competitions?
Are we doomed to reside in the mediocre bucket for the rest of our careers just because we dont , cant compete?
I understand that competions are great for critique and self improvement but please, there are some of us out here who strive to put out the most natural looking work we can. Having my name, phone number or business card passed onto another possible client by a satisfied current client is the best ribbon I can hope for.

quote:

That's all I care about, a nice clean lifelike mount with a customer smile. (And a good paycheck to go along with it )

Thats probably the only thing we have in common then I guess.

I said "chances are". I'm sure you do great work. The vast majority of those that don't stay involved through reference and magazines are only concerned with getting it out the door. Quality is pushed aside. I know a couple guys that don't compete that do anice job, I just think it's harder for someone to get better at a quicker rate without competition or at least seeing better work or talking to other people about how to do better work. I didn't say it was impossible.