Just wanted to let evryone know they have screwed up my deer.
Wanted a Euro mount and paid for a Euro mount they cut my horns out for a shoulder. Offered to shoulder mount my deer for a 10% discount to fix their screw up. I said no way in hell, then they offered to try and attach my horns to another deers skull. Seems very poor business practice to me, I own a small business and if I or my guys screw something up I try my best to make it right even if it cost me money.

Told them to ship me my horns back and refund monies paid. What other options do I have at this point.

Sorry to hear that Montana.

Do you live in Texas or did you kill the deer near san angelo and expected them to finish the product and send it to Montana?

Did they say anything when you asked for a refund and the horns?

Actually I live in NC and hunted the Adobe Lodge in San Angelo.

They sounded quite pleased when I asked for the refund and my horns. I guess they think they got rid of a problem quite easily. They did not, and I plan on filing complaints with the Texas and the National taxidermist assc.

By the way I love hunting in Texas and if it was not so frigging hot I might consider moving there.

Who of us in business hasn't made a mistake? Or had an employee screw something up? If they are willing to do what they can to make it right whats the problem? If they were just telling you to take a flying jump then I would be upset also. I don't know of this shop but I think people should be given the benifit of doubt. Maybe I am just reading your post wrong?

If they are any good, they should be able to mount the horns on another skull and no one would know the difference but you. Still, I would be a bit miffed about the screw up.

Sculptor,

Give people the benefit of the doubt, most of the time I do. But they screwed up, then the first offer to make things right was a 10% discount off a shoulder mount that I do not want. They charged me $170 for a euro mount w/shipping. Sounds like a good way to upsale your customers. Second they said they would put the horns on another skull but I might would see a line. Then offered to cut the horns off and screw them into another skull. At this point I am pretty pissed, for one the owner was supposed to call me back and it was not him on the phone. I then asked about a piece of mesquite wood to put it on, well sir that will be an extra charge. Mind you I killed this deer last October. They have at no point in my mind tried to make it right by me, they have only made suggestions on how to charge me more to cover up their mistake. Well I hunt every other year at Adobe Lodge and Henry the owner of Old Friends Taxidermy comes in on the last day of the hunt to roundup business he will be getting something extra next year. I will also inform everyone in camp about their screwups and wish them good luck with their mounts.

Thank you very much for the information...

I'm sorry that you have to go through this experience...

I know your integrity through looking at past post before I pass my own judgment...

My friend you are credible!!!

Its a shame that there are people like this in business...

Suck it up now...

They are not worth it or do they have the principles and guidelines of fair business in there HEARTS...

I will not use ever them and will help my fellow hunters in spreading the word as I know many people that hunt in that particular area from time to time...

Spread the news no one needs this sort of you know what...

Its sad...

But especially sad for them as well...

They are folks with no depth of character and we meet people like this every so often...

I would be upset to after reading your new explaination. Not worth a heart attack over though. You still have the antlers or will. Good luck.

Montana, as someone who's been a taxidermist for 50 years, let me add my concurrence to what Jim said. Accidents happen. This morning, in a hurry to clean off my desk top, I put a $700 check into the shredder. How smart does that make me? Now I'm aggravated that I'll have to contact the agency, plead terminal stupidity and see if they'll reissue a check.

If that shop is doing any workload at all, as most shops, 99% or your deer work is going to be shoulder mounts. The Euro's and the antler panels aren't that popular. So some poor schmuck, sitting in the skinning room gets to work to find 2 dozen deer waiting for him. He capes them out and saws the antlers off just to find out that there was ONE Euro mount in the lot.

I, personally don't see how they could have done any more to rectify the situation. What's done is done. They offered you an exchange skull (I'd have offered you a plastic one as well) or to discount a shoulder mount. They can't very well bring your deer back to life through cloning and let you shoot it again can they?

I understand your frustration, but in a business were advertising is almost 100% word of mouth, you can't possibly think they just selected you to piss off. Calm down, take a deep breath, and move on. It's not worth having a heart attack over.

Well Montana I'm sorry to hear of your plight with the deer antlers/skull/euro mount request on your deer. Knowing nothign of this taxidermist its hard to say how much of an "accident" this was.

Can't say I agree to much with George either tho, if a place is doing mostly deer shoulder mounts and they get a request for somethign different/special like a deer euro mount, one would think this deer head would be flagged or identified better as to the special request of the customer so as to avoid a mistake (provided this shop is any good to start with). I read that the shop offered some alternatives, but in the case of the 10% off a shoulder mount, that wouldn't sway me either, heck thats barley a dent in the extra $$ the taxidermist is gonna make on that deal anyway, now if they awere willing to mount it for the price of the euro mount or say 50% off the shoulder mount price, well maybe I would consider it then. Yeah I know thats a lot to ask, but then the taxiderismist made the mistake in the first palce and it not like the customer went looking for the discount.

I'm no taxidermist, and I know it takes a long time and lots of animals to become good in this trade, but once established, most good shops, including the one i use out here in WA are keeping up with their costs, but I also believe they make pretty good $$ once established with a good clientel base. Evenutally tho taxidermy will become so overpriced that it to will crash as will guided hutnign here in NA and Africa. It can only self sustain itself for so long.

quote:

Originally posted by bisonhunter1:
Evenutally tho taxidermy will become so overpriced that it to will crash as will guided hutnign here in NA and Africa. It can only self sustain itself for so long.

Bisonhunter...I just don't understand comments like this. Do you not understand that taxidermy is a business...not a hobby to us professionals. Do you not realize that we as business owners are affected by the rising cost of living, utilities, gas, supply increases, fuel charge increases for shipping,etc., etc., just as any other business.

I can never understand why hunters (I am assuming)as yourself who pay for the finest firearms or archery equipment, the best hunting clothing, a fine hunting vehicle, airfare to exotic lands to a guided hunt, trophy fee's for your specimens and then you get back to the states and complain about the taxidermist prices, the person preserving the memory of your hunt for a lifetime! If you do your homework the taxidermist doing quality mounts for world wide hunters are Master artisans. Many attend conventions to get continuing education to stay on top of their field (just as a Doctor, Dentist, etc. need to do to remain licensed). Even more are giving the seminars and judging the pieces helping the newcomers and average joe improve their taxidermy work.

I strongly disagree with you as I feel the descriminating hunter will seek the finest quality of taxidermy artistry available and that Bisonhunter, is the taxidermist who is pricing his work accordingly.

Sure you can get cheap work...but that is exactly what you will get...cheap work. Would you rather look at work that will glorify your hunt or work you are embarressed to put on display and if you don't know the difference...God love ya!

Kindest Regards,
Mary

Non resident tags for sheep here in Wyoming are now 1950.00 and the waiting list is VERY long. I hear the "Ive been applying for 23 years" story all the time. Elk tags are near 1000. and auctioned elk tags ave. selling for 20 to 60 K. Sheep tags double and triple that. The Wyoming Game and Fish just keeps raising prices and they still sell every tag. Sport hunting is not a cheap way to fill a freezer at least in the Western states. I get 600. for a deer mount, the same as I and did last year and I got lots and lots. I can understand why Montana is upset but going ape over it is not the right approach. But bisonhunter is off the target completely. Taxidermy is a WAY under priced art. It will have to come up on aveage a whole lot before it is even a fair deal for most taxidermists, Alas, most of them are poor businesspersons.

I am amazed that it took a year for them to get back to you about messing up on a european mount.

I think most places get European mounts in and out in less then 2 months with a plaque

Wow, guess I touched quite the nerve, tho that was not the intent on my earlier post. I know taxidermists , especially good ones, of which there are many throughout the states and elsewhere all face rising costs in their business and living expenses. Its sureley an art and those artisians desrves to make a decent living at their passion. Many hunters and even myself will continue to have pieces done, but in my case only I will be more selective of what pieces I have done and how many, just as I will reduce the amount of hunting I do where I need to buy out of state tags and hire/book with outfitters as those cost go up faster than I can keep up with. Not anyones fault I suppose, but in my opinion (and thats all it is) all this just makes it harder for the common person ( and define that by your own standards) to go on many guided hunts and/or get taxidermy work done. All this took this post of track of the mistake made with Montana's deer, so I'll stay out of this subject now.

Bisonhunter, you didn't have to tell us you're not a taxidermist. Just as soon as you made that statement about making good money, we all KNEW you knew nothing about taxidermy. My barber makes $100 an hour cutting hair. He doesn't have to supply anything other than clippers and scissors. He cuts a guy's hair every 15 minutes and he makes $800 a day. It takes me all day to mount one single deer. I charge $450 for that, but that includes the $150 in forms, eyes, earliners, glue,clay, putty, paint and other materials I need to make it look like a deer. That means that I make about $38 an hour. My good customers see me once a year, I see my barber once a month. And let's not even go into what my plumber makes when he comes.

Customers like you always see in the personal sense. You never consider that every customer I has is doing the same thing at the same time. Where you only have to worry about YOUR deer, I have to worry about them all, making sure that the forms I order fit, the pose I order matches what you asked for, and that they're completed on time. I won't tell you the number of customers who bug me constantly and when I finally do call them, they tell me that "money is a little tight right now and I'll have to wait a few days/weeks/months before I can get there."

Any taxidermist worth his salt will tell you stories about how deer season requires 25 hour days in order to take in enough work to support you for an entire year. I've gotten up at 5 in the morning with 8 deer on the shop floor to be skinned out. I skinned all day and into the next morning. When I finally crawled into bed at 2 a.m. there were TEN deer lying on the floor to be skinned. AFter 4 hours sleep, it's back out there for a repeat performance.

Now I don't want your sympathy. That's the job I've chosen to do and part of doing it. However, I don't want you pretending you have any idea of what it really entails either.

I may have been able to get an Euro out a big faster as well, but I'm not wearing his moccasins. Each shop has different workloads and priorities, especially if he waited till the end of the season and sent ALL his skulls out to the professional places that do skulls.

I am not having a heart attack my problem is, they screwed up and want to charge me more to fix it. I own a business and as stated before I fix my problems at my expense. Just last week I had to eat $550 because either I measured wrong or my employees applied a slurry solution too thick. Either way the customer got more than the quoted price. I stood by my quoted price, customer is happy and will recommend me to his neighbor and co-workers. How much is that worth??

Also, God help'em if they try to charge me for shipping my horns back. I kinda have a feeling they will try.

I sent an email to Skipper Duncan chief ramrod at Adobe Lodge this is what he sent back.

Thanks for the e-mail and for letting me know about your problem with Henry's taxidermy shop.

We use Old Friends almost exclusively, and we hear of a very few problems with them, but indeed, each year there seems to be a couple of "situations". I always follow them up and always Henry has been able to adequately explain the problem to me. I will see what is going on with your deal, and I will get back to you as soon as I can get some answers.

When Henry is taking orders from the hunters there in our skinning shed, I keep an eye on the process and he seems to have a good system in place to get everything done up right. But where/how the process goes once the heads leave our facility, I don't know how it is all handled. I know Henry has had major employee problems during the past year, and that might be part of it.

We ask a hunter three times how he wants his head done because once you start the work for one of the three choices (horn mount, euro mount, full shoulder), it is impossible to make a change once the work is underway - for obvious reasons.

Just yesterday, a hunter called to complain that Henry "screwed up his deer". Seems that the hunter originally wanted a horn mount and about 72 hours later called Henry to change the order to a shoulder mount. Too late. The cape had already been discarded. I explained to the hunter that this kind of thing was really not the fault of the taxidermist, and he said he understood.

So I will go out there and ask a few questions on your behalf. I had intended to go on Wednesday anyway to pick up a horn mount for a hunter who will be here Thursday for our first hunt of the season. When I have learned anything, I'll let you know.

Adios,
Skipper


Will wait for his reply but they have screwed the pooch in my mind, not by making the mistake but by not saying "Hey we screwed up what can we do to make it right for you" By the way they never really apologized in any of the phone conversations I had with them. And the owner not calling tells me he is not man enough to own up and take a couple lumps. Hell my head looks like a golf ball some days.

Montana,

I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience. I've used Old Friends a few times in the past and was impressed with their customer service and mounts.

Well, Montana, if you think taxidermy resembles mixing slurry in any fashion, I'd suggest that from now on you do your own work. Nothing is going to make you happy in this process because you know what apples look like and oranges must be exactly the same. Henry was just looking for you personally hoping to screw your day up completely and then take you to the cleaners. By all means, hire a fancy lawyer and sue his pants off. Then when Henry folds his business, those other hunters are going to think you're a really special guy to them. And all because Henry had a vendetta for you.

I will tell you what I'd have done after your tirade. I'd have packaged your antlers up neatly in a box, refunded you the entire amount, and sent them along with a letter of suggestion where you could put them and sent it to you registered parcel post. I don't have much time for customers who assume they're the center of the universe.

George,

You have no idea what a tirade looks like. I am just miffed, now I have thrown a tirade or two in my day mainly at car dealers. I hate incompetence and people trying to half-ass their way through life.

I know what is involved in taxidermy. I went to Piedmont in Roxboro, NC for a year and studied taxidermy. Ralph Garland was my teacher. I no longer do any taxidermy because I can make more money doing other things.

I know this was not done intentionally. But more should have been done to make it right.

I do not hire lawyers for such trival stuff.

I received my antlers today with a check for the full amount, I am impressed they didn't withold shipping.

And as for you and your note and your implications for where it should be filed. That says alot about the business person you are not. Screw something up and then have the gall when I get upset to tell me where to stick it, right. I am not sure how you are still in business with that attitude. Your work must be damn good for customers to put with you.

I do not assume I am the center of anything. If you will go back and read my post. You will find that I am pissed because of the way they handled the problem. I hope that Henry takes notice and implements better recording keeping in his shop. So that this will be avoided. This was just a smallish 8pt but what if it had been a 200 class deer that somone had paid $15K to shoot and Henry screws that up. He might just get sued out of business.

At this point if you having anything usefull to say please do. But that last post just displayed your poor business acumen and a waste Saeed's bandwidth.

M

LOL Montana, NOW YOU'RE TALKIN'. If you studied under Rotten Ralph you shouldn't be surpised at ALL about what I said. Ralph is and has been a good friend of mine for years and we share an outlook of trying to do as well as we can but at some point, you just have to recognize a person as being an ass and tell him so. I don't DISAGREE with your statement about incompetence, but I've yet to see where this guy didn't admit his fault and attempt to make it right. You just didn't offer him much alternatives.

Rotten being the key word, SOB would come up behind you in class, let one, then walk off and wait for the reaction.

He should have offered me better alternatives. 10% off a shoulder mount does not cut it. If I remember correctly his shoulder mounts are about $500. And while his work is quite good, I do not like his shoulder mounts. Also this as stated is a smallish 8 pt not worth a shoulder mount in my book.

Just tell the customer "yes we screwed up, now how can we make it right"?

That simple sentence will difuse about 99% of all problems and allow you to work it out.

M

quote:

Just tell the customer "yes we screwed up, now how can we make it right"?

I agree with this statement 100%.
Everyone makes mistakes I don't care who you are, when I make one I own up to it and try to make it right. What's odd to me is, this could easily be fixed, with another skull, the joint could be covered and no one would ever be able to see it. It's a simple,basic repair, it shouldn't have been such an ordeal.

Jerry, I agree with you. That is what I do and say; I have been in the taxidermy/art business here in a small town since 1976. What people do not know about you they make up in small towns. What everyone hates is when the client then can not seem to be made happy and still moans and bitches and badmouths you and these days can post negative things on the internet about you. I hope Old Friends taxidermy and Montana finally work it out and that Montana lightens up about the whole thing and even considers erasing his posts.

I have known Henry D for many years---before he had the taxidermy shop and I have found him to be upstanding in my dealings. Have not used his taxidermy service as I'm not into that so much. I just mount the antlers myself. There was no complaint about meat processing,so I guess Montana was happy with that. Who did you use for meat processing?

I met Henry 3 three years ago and he seemed ok. I brought the head back to NC and mounted it myself. This last trip I let him do it and it got bungled, like I said I think his work is very good. But they cut the horns out of the skull on my euro mount. Also, Henry never did call me even after I asked for him to.

Meat processing was a non-issue as I donated the meat. The Adobe Lodge has it processed and then it is used for orphaned children. I fly down to Texas and to bring it back would not be cost wise. And besides I can kill about all I want here in NC anyway. Had some fresh backstraps last night, navy beans with a touch of jalapeño, with a bowl of potatoes and some homemade biscuits with sweet tea of course.

M

Montana--My dad made the best biscuits in the world. Mine never turn out as good as his. Recipe is most simple. Mix self rising flour--dab of salt and buttermilk into a thick paste and shape the biscuits by hand. Turn out onto a greased platter and then turn back over so that the tops gets greased. Bake and there you have it. Hope any of you that try it will leave feedback--simple and cant be beat.

The trick to soft fluffy bicuits is not to work the dough to much.


I get your point here but I still have a set of sawed out antlers.

it seems too simple to have to remind people of...

Ever read the old Lucian Cary stories about Harry Pope that ran in the Saturday Evening Post in the 20's-30's, gunsmith J.M. Pyne, ever read any of them? The one is about a young gunsmith/machinist who comes to Pyne's shop and wants to go to work for him. Pyne says no, but the young man perists. Eventually Pyne takes him in. End of the story, Pyne get sick,the young man does a barrel, as Pyne has shown him, the customer loves it, and leaves happy. The young man says, "...I made it the way you showed me, but I still don't know the SECRET of Pyne barrels..." Pyne/Pope looks at him and says, "there is no SECRET!, you just have to know how to do quality workmanship, and have the discipline to do it...every time".

That is the bottomline...

It does not sound like this was dealt with in this manner.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

I have to ask since this tread is probably dead and my hope is a hyjack will not frustrate it.

OK George, $38 an hour. Darn that sounds good to me. So how many 38s in $300. Ah....7.89 hours. Are you counting finish as in prep and painting, sewing holes etc...?

Do your deer capes get acid? Are you still using Rhinehart's ( spelling) tan?

My break down is as follows: A, 2.5 hrs capeing and salting.
.5 hrs acid and tanning ( static). B. 6.5 hrs manikin prep, sewing holes etc and mounting , (alterations, major brisket sewing, open jaws, etc extra) C. One to two hours with prep and finish. 1hr coming and going.--.5 ea visit. --- gabbing with client. A good twelve hrs. I find I need this time to give client quality. Any pointers? I've been at this for 20 yrs... and although quality is top priority, if I can cut down on time and still maintain it...well...you know. ??

Exit, Let me give you my thoughts on your question. First off, I am never working on anything alone or one mount at a time and I doubt if George does either. So multiple mounts are always in some stage of progress which makes allot of difference. Secondly NOBODY can make a decent living at taxidermy charging only 300. for a deer mount no matter how they do it; and George charges way than more 300. I charge 600.

thank for the reply sculptor and yes, if you read his post concerning his pricing, he states he charges $450 of which $150 is for materials etc.. He states he makes $38. per hr. 450 less 150 equals 300 divided by 38 which sums to 7.89 hrs.

How do multiple mounts in progress make for a difference? What is this difference? Do you mean preping several manikins, finishing several mounts at one sitting ? If that is what you mean, yes these do save on time setting up and materials. These I do. But do you mean something else? BTW I'm charging $380 without panel.

Thats what I mean. At any one time I will have 20 to 30 plus mounts going on at the same time. I paint a large number at the same time, same goes for fleshing, or mounting, etc, etc. I treat my business as a business that is at least trying to make a profit and have a cash flow while producing the best work I am capable of at the same time. I can also say I am a professional sculptor. It is not a hobby job. Taxidermists are as a whole very underpaid for thier services and for the most part it is there own dang fault; and charging less than 450 anywhere in the USA for a deer mount is robbing your family and cheating yourself. That is WHY there is a huge turn over and burnout in the full time taxidermy world. The best shops and the ones that have stayed in business multiple years charge more, take in more and produce more and produce the finest work and make more and stay in business. The successful full time taxidermists have discovered that thier only competition is in the mirror and NOT the other guy that will do it cheaper, faster.

I tend to agree with you on all points, however in my neck of the woods I don't have the number of hunters (population) with sufficient interest in taxidermy, nor the game in sufficient numbers required to charge as you do.
The economy in my area is not sufficiently diversified and a few simple economic factors can cut my clients in half from the previous season.

I do taxidermy because like the runner in Chariots of Fire, God smiles on me. I have been at it since 1988 and my plans are to be at it in twenty yrs. The folk here are independent and do-it-yourselfers by nature. It is nothing for them to do their own antlers on panels in lieu of moi doing shoulders. In fact since the lobster prices have gone down here the past two yrs (lobster is big here) and most of the young people are gone out west working the oil patch my antler on panel business has gone down 90% the last two deer seasons.

My clients are perhaps just a tad different than yours.

You can NOT fill up your pickup truck today for less than 60.00 and you CAN NOT make a decent living in taxidermy mounting deer heads as cheap as you do ESP. if you are producing a quality mount. NO matter where you live. IT's YOU and not them. YOU set your prices. Preception has more value than reality. You have to market and discover the preception. Ever hear of bottled water?

Montana- I understand your frustration, but is there a chance that the employee you talked to didn't even consult with or inform the owner of the "facts"? I would sit down and vist with the owner when you see him this next year and find out what he knows and what he thinks about how the situation was handled, then I would pass judgement accordingly.

DnND,

I do plan to advise Henry of the situation. I spoke with three of his employees on several different days. I think Henry knows what happened as I also advised Skipper at Adobe Lodge and he went over there in person and inquired about what happened.

M

Montana---Ate at Zentners Daughter Restaurant here in San Angelo tonight and when you walk in the door there is a display of animals by Old Friends Taxidermy---you might want to boycott that place too.