Self explanatory.

You know if I lived in a place that had STEENBOKS and a customer brought me one with a hole that size on the show side, I'd probably go out and find me a replacement hide in lieu of trying to patch such a cavern on such a small animal.

quote:

Originally posted by george roof:
You know if I lived in a place that had duikers and a customer brought me one with a hole that size on the show side, I'd probably go out and find me a replacement hide in lieu of trying to patch such a cavern on such a small animal.

that's probably a good idea but since this is a steenbok, you probably should replace the hide with a steenbok skin. oops i forgot, only American taxidermists do the quality work on African animals that American hunters should be satisfied with. then again, maybe i am wrong-maybe that is a duiker.

jdollar, I had steenbok down but I went to that silly assed Wikipedia and then I wssn't sure any longer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Duiker). It looked just like the steenbok I'd used as a dead mount with a leopard awhile back, but since I'm no African whizkid, I just took the reference picture and went with that. Sorry.

As far as American taxidermists doing a better job, well that's a bit of an extreme position you state. I will state that QUALITY taxidermy done by American taxidermists far surpasses all the work I've seen imported back into the country from Africa. American taxidermists didn't start that fight either. It was the African outfitters who told our customers that "American taxidermists aren't familiar enough with our animals to do as good a job as we can." And anyone who does any African work can vouch for the fact that outfitters routinely seem to damage our customers skins. The STEENBOK I mounted came back with only 3 legs and we had to buy an extra. I got a kudu with the entire eye orbit missing and a neck shot, but the customer insisted that he'd shot the animal through the chest. Now you tell me who started this little pissing contest.

if you can't tell the difference between a duiker and a steenbok on first glance, pity your customers when it comes to using reference photos. seems the African outfitters are right-you AREN'T familar enough with African animals.

I guess we all can't be geniuses. That why I USE reference photos of animals not native to our country. Usually the customer informs me of the species and then I check my reference pictures. It's a shame they don't have them in Africa.

maybe they don't need them. hopefully the hides arrive here with a name tag on them denoting the species.

Jdollar is my hero, slaying one dragon at a time!

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
if you can't tell the difference between a duiker and a steenbok on first glance, pity your customers when it comes to using reference photos. seems the African outfitters are right-you AREN'T familar enough with African animals.

An off colored oribi would be the only other little guy that looks like a steenbok. And it would have to be really off colored.

A duiker looks like a 30 pound dik dik.

Those big eye glands give it away.

quote:

Originally posted by george roof:
You know if I lived in a place that had duikers and a customer brought me one with a hole that size on the show side, I'd probably go out and find me a replacement hide in lieu of trying to patch such a cavern on such a small animal.

But it was MY small animal. I didn't want a different one.

D99, you never offer anything to a post do you? Are you a taxidermist are just one more wannabe?

Now I've admitted to screwing up the name of that indescript animal and I explained why I was mislead. I don't do that much African stuff, but enough to know when the "package deal" hunts come in I'm going to get these non-descript little nothings. THE POINT of my post remains that I seriously doubt from both pictures that the ANIMAL mounted is the animal that was shot. The work quality is marginal to average at best with no movement or motion involved. To think that the same person transplanted a piece of cape that large and made it flawlessly is a stretch of imagination to ANY taxidermist.

Here's a picture of the last STEENBOK I mounted. Look close. LOL

Any good taxidermist needs reference photos, african or not.

Ditto on the kudos, They did make an excellent save on the Steinbok Tom, That will make for some good conversation when you compare the pictures to the mount.

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Huffaker:
Ditto on the kudos, They did make an excellent save on the Steinbok Tom, That will make for some good conversation when you compare the pictures to the mount.

Yup. I was hunting large plains game and had a .375H&H BRNO and .45/70-.450 Marlin BFR revolver with me. I got a surprise opportunity on one of the little five so I took it.

quote:

The work quality is marginal to average at best with no movement or motion involved. To think that the same person transplanted a piece of cape that large and made it flawlessly is a stretch of imagination to ANY taxidermist.

It's the same trophy, I took lots of photos, and if you look at it up close you can see it was taken with a .375H&H. BUT, they did salvage it. About the max length spikes you get on those little guys. Four inches. I KNOW that it's my trophy and if you brush the fur around you can find where it was patched back together.

I don't have the budget to afford $5000US mounts when I can get servicable $500US mounts. I'd rather spend the big money going back to hunt more. It's the hunt that I'm about, not having the most expensive taxidermist. I have to pick one or the other and I pick air tickets and trophy fees rather than only going once in my life and having a really superb set of mounts done by a super spendy US taxidermist.

To visitors to my home who aren't hunters, or haven't been to Africa, they just think it is neat to see the full mounts. I've yet to have one say "you should have gotten a better taxidermist", especially when they've seen the before photo. The hunters are mostly just jealous that I manage to afford to go at all.

I guess this is the reason PHs always say to aim for the last rib and not the shoulder when using large calibers on the little guys!!!

The taxidermist did very well. But of course, I had them do some work for me back in 2004, and my stuff still looks like it did the day they arrived in the states!

Congrats on an excellent trophy and taxidermy work!

Then they did an exceptional job on repairing you animal Tom. In fact they did a superb job of it. Congratulations.

quote:

Originally posted by george roof:
Then they did an exceptional job on repairing you animal Tom. In fact they did a superb job of it. Congratulations.

Thanks. I reckon that's why it took a year to get that batch of trophies finished. Maybe someday I'll have the money for both hunting where I want and high dollar taxidermy, I'd be glad to be able to have both, but hunting is more important to me at the moment. Life's a compromise. I would have loved to have had a nice full mount done of my Zebra mare, but I could only afford a rug...

Sterkte!
tom`

My Klein Vrystaat
Texas Republiek

George,

No I am not a taxidermist, not a wannabe either.

I admire taxidermist, but not very many of them!

As a hunter, I view the taxidermy on my walls as simply memories. I sit and look at them and I can be young again or excited, or even a bit scared as I relive that hunt. I don't notice that some of the work is mine from 30 years ago and would stink by today's standards. I don't look at the few pieces I've had done by "icons" of the industry to see that they,too, made mistakes. I actually don't think anything tells a person more about Africa than a shoulder mount zebra. Save you money for when you go back and take an nyala with those beautiful golden legs.

D99, that was a rhetorical question. We're well aware of who and what you are.

quote:

Originally posted by george roof:
As a hunter, I view the taxidermy on my walls as simply memories. I sit and look at them and I can be young again or excited, or even a bit scared as I relive that hunt. I don't notice that some of the work is mine from 30 years ago and would stink by today's standards. I don't look at the few pieces I've had done by "icons" of the industry to see that they,too, made mistakes. I actually don't think anything tells a person more about Africa than a shoulder mount zebra. Save you money for when you go back and take an nyala with those beautiful golden legs.

That's exactly how I feel, too. It'd be nice to be rich and have both but my perspective is pretty close to yours. Leopard with .375 H&H Encore handgun I'm building with the help of Mike Bellm is next on my menu.

George is asshole or bastard the answer? Is that what I am?

We must be twins!

No, D99. None of those. I spent 30 years in the military and I know the Navy doesn't have the vocabulary above that. I have so many more eloquent and descriptive adjectives that would make those silly epithets pale in comparison.

George your a funny guy, I have been dating a doctor for a number of years, and I have tried to de-sailorize my language as much as I can. But the sailor still comes out.

Semper Fortis for your 30 years of military service. No wonder your such a cratchety old snickerdoodle!

quote:

Originally posted by george roof:
D99, you never offer anything to a post do you? Are you a taxidermist are just one more wannabe?

Now I've admitted to screwing up the name of that indescript animal and I explained why I was mislead. I don't do that much African stuff, but enough to know when the "package deal" hunts come in I'm going to get these non-descript little nothings. THE POINT of my post remains that I seriously doubt from both pictures that the ANIMAL mounted is the animal that was shot. The work quality is marginal to average at best with no movement or motion involved. To think that the same person transplanted a piece of cape that large and made it flawlessly is a stretch of imagination to ANY taxidermist.

Here's a picture of the last STEENBOK I mounted. Look close. LOL

no George, you didn't screw up the name- you screwed up the species! and i don't consider ANY animal i shoot as a "non-descript little nothing" and there is no movement or motion involved because the animal is just standing there!! QUIT DIGGING.

jdollar, I don't know who pissed in your post toasties, but you need to swap bowls. I admitted to screwing up. What are you looking for, a genuflect? Because you are mesmerized by African game doesn't mean others of us are. They're simply different species but if push came to shove, I could care less about a dikdik or a duiker or a gerenuk. Most of the plains game look goofy to me with the regal kudu and the African standard zebra bing my favorites. I love nature and consider myself a naturalist as well as a taxidermist, but I can admit having made a mistake simply because I used wikipedia to look up the animal. Did YOU look at the picture I had linked? And it's not MY fault that African taxidermy stinks and that the hides they ship back to us are intentionally destroyed. If that's your hang up, go talk to them and leave me out of it.

One of my customers trophy room walls is filled with mount from there and there's a lifesized Nyala that's #32 (or was) and a lifesize 400 pound lioness standing under that leopard with the steenbok. So it's not as if I don't know a bit about what I'm talking about.

yep, i think "a bit" just about sums it up. if you think that African outfitters and taxidermists intentionally destroy the hides shipped to the US and "that African taxidermy stinks", you are truly beyond help.

When I become the ONLY taxidermist who feels that way, perhaps I'll be "misguided" but from all the other similar horror stories I hear from others, you live in a totally different world than we do.

quote:

Originally posted by george roof:
When I become the ONLY taxidermist who feels that way, perhaps I'll be "misguided" but from all the other similar horror stories I hear from others, you live in a totally different world than we do.

There are some very good Taxidermists in EVERY nation that has hunting. There are also many more bad taxidermists than good taxidermists, by proportion, everywhere. It'd be wrong to say that no African taxidermists are equal to top American taxidermists. There's a small group of gurus in both places.

Friend of mine from gunsmithing days lives in Natal and knows rather a few of them. Their pricing is on par with US pricing for top notch taxidermy too.

The thing is, most African done taxidermy you see brought back to the states is more often than not, people on a budget like mine. Then factor in porters and helpers and trackers that do lousy things to animals before they even get to the taxidermist or shipped to the states...It's not a black and white issue, no pun intended.

how would anyone build up a customer base if they intentionally "destroyed" one of their end-products? look up ethnocentric in your Wiikepedia and see if the definition sounds familiar. by the way, i haven't noticed a lot of your colleagues flocking to your defense. just maybe they consider any hunting trophy as something other than a "non-descript little nothing" and African antelope in general as other than goofy.

jdollar, you still have a permanet burr up your butt. YOU look up ethnocentric and use the word correctly. I never implied that any African was either black or white in my appraisal of what I've seen. A steenbok with 3 legs, a kudu with no eye orbit and a neck shot from a hunter who has pictures of the hole in behind the animals shoulder, a blue wildebeest with an ear hanging on by a string, a jackal with the tail severed, and the list goes on. I didn't imply that ALL African work was inferior, but the majority of it is. At our national and world competitions, I never see anyone competing from ANY of those "ethnicities". I know "one size fits all" there and they don't use the forms that we have available here. As Tom is saying, most Americans go there on a shoestring budget and why wouldn't SOME of those outfitters keep the better capes for themselves and sent the other back to us. They pay the native workers pennies on the dollar and I know about the production line work where one guy is the zebra specialist and another is the antelope specialist and so on. Outfitters have their money and they have no expectations of making any more. What are you going to do when you're back here and you get a crate of trashed hides? If that WEREN'T happening, why would they tell our clients that they should leave there animals there where they "know more about the animals than we do"? Mike Boyce (Wildlife Artistry) and Dennis Harris (Artistry of Wildlife) do breathtaking pieces that I have yet to see produced in Africa. When the big money people travel to Africa, where do their hides end up? When SCI needs a mount, where do they go? When the Smithsonian needs work done, who do they go to? American taxidermist have now and always have led the industry in craftsmanship, artistry, and quality. The last World Show held in Europe proved beyond a doubt that the work produced in America is second to none. I'm sure there ARE some good taxidermists in Africa (Tom is correct in his assessment of the nubmers of bad ones everywhere), but until they start consistently using the quality American supplies, their work is going to be handicapped. And that's not just MY OPINION, I just happen to be the only one willing to come on here and say it.

quote:

Originally posted by george roof:
So it's not as if I don't know a bit about what I'm talking about.

I don't think you're as smart as you think you are. I'll go out on a small, slim limb and say straight up, "You're full of shit, or is it full of yourself? Whichever it is, they mean exactly the same thing!"

Based upon your great distaste and hatred for African animals, why not just pass them along to another taxidermist that would be happy to do the work and not bitch like a little girl! This will free your time up a bit to do more American things like a whitetail or a squirrel. Besides, by your own admission you wouldn't have taken on such a challenging piece of work.

quote:

Originally posted by george roof:
You know if I lived in a place that had duikers and a customer brought me one with a hole that size on the show side, I'd probably go out and find me a replacement hide in lieu of trying to patch such a cavern on such a small animal.

You would have taken the easy route and bought another skin, unlike, what this African taxidermist did. Which brings up another point, maybe you're not as good as you think you are either? Probably both!!

Graybird, just where did you get the notion that I ever thought I was "good"? ASSumptions again. How about where did I say I don't LIKE doing African animals? ASSumption again. And where did I say I'd BUY a replacement hide for the animal? Another ASSumption. I said that if I LIVED there and if I had access to them, I would have considered it. That's a nasty appearing hole, but anyone who knows anything about taxidermy knows that only after you skin and tan an animal can you get a fair assessment of what needs to be done.

Now I understand taxidermist egos and probably by my stating a truism, it got your silk panties in a wad. I don't recall seeing any of YOUR work so I can decide if YOU know what you're talking about either. Perhaps you're jealous or just emotional that someone with such a lack of talent as myself is brash enough to speak the truth.

BTW, my client always pays his bill and brings back more for me to do. As long as HE is satisfied with what I do, I could care less what any of you think about my work.

quote:

...As Tom is saying, most Americans go there on a shoestring budget and why wouldn't SOME of those outfitters keep the better capes for themselves and sent the other back to us. They pay the native workers pennies on the dollar and I know about the production line work where one guy is the zebra specialist and another is the antelope specialist and so on. Outfitters have their money and they have no expectations of making any more. What are you going to do when you're back here and you get a crate of trashed hides? If that WEREN'T happening, why would they tell our clients that they should leave there animals there where they "know more about the animals than we do"? ...

You forgot something. African nations being some of the most corrupt on Earth, there is usually some form of kickback involved in who your local PH/Outfitters recommend. THAT is a BIG part of how things are. SO, the PH/Outfitters actually HAVE AN EXPECTATION to MAKE MORE by sending you to a fair to middling local taxidermist because odds are they won't ever see you again if they figure you're on a shoestring budget anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by george roof:

BTW, my client always pays his bill and brings back more for me to do. As long as HE is satisfied with what I do, I could care less what any of you think about my work.

And, I can assure you that there are more than just me that could careless about your thoughts or opionions. You think you're some bad ass taxidermist but you never post pics of things you've done, unlike other taxidermists on AR. All you want to do it bitch about the quality of hides or taxidermy work coming out of Africa, etc. Or, you like to bitch about this or that with other pieces of work. I seriously doubt you do much African work because you don't even know the difference between a duiker and steenbok. You're full of crap and I'm just calling a spade a spade.

You also say you're the only taxidermists that has the guts to speak the truth. Maybe you should follow your fellow taxidermists wisdom and keep your mouth shut every once in awhile. I'm sure several taxidermists that post on here have picked up a bit of extra work from their comments, pictures of work completed, and the way they conduct themselves. I believe your EGO is way toooooo over inflated!!! Time to come down to earth a bit.

Did you even bother to scroll up before you started that little diatribe Graybird? Obviously not. And the very last thing I'd want anyone to think was that I was an exceptional taxidermist. I'm NOT, I'm just a commercial guy who's been doing this for over 50 years now. I've forgotten more about bad taxidermy practices than you'll ever know about good ones.

So why don't you just check your testosterone at the door, you're not impressing or intimidating me in any way. And to think that your silly inuendo about other taxidermists picking up my work is simply idiotic. I've been trying to retire now for the last 10 years, so for every piece I get coming through my door (I have 2 lifesized muskox, 2 blue wildebeest, a silverback jackal, 7 lifesized bears, and 6 large whitetail bucks in full velvet for shoulder mounts that have come in since September 1), that delays my plans just that much longer.

As I said, I don't recall seeing any of your work posted here either?

Tom, I apologize for your thread getting hijacked by the testosterone crew. I was simply stating that because I lack the talent to hide such a gaping hole, IF I had the resources, I'd have replaced the hide rather than making a mess out of it. Your guy obviously did a great job on those repairs.

Tom,

That's an excellent patch job on that hole.

My taxidermist here in AZ has done two similar operations for folks I know.

One involved a black bear my oldest son killed in BC a few years back. He wanted a full-size rug, but the bear had a huge rub spot at least a foot square. The taxidermist pieced in some hide from another bear, and when I saw the finished product, I was pretty impressed. It too took quite a bit of searching to find the spot.

In another instance, my hunting partner had him do his NZ tahr. He had shot it in the head, completely removing one eye and some of the area around it. Again, my taxidermist completely rebuilt the area where it was basically unnoticeable. -TONY

quote:

Originally posted by george roof:
Did you even bother to scroll up before you started that little diatribe Graybird? Obviously not.

Yes, I did and I comprehend reading very well too.

quote:

Originally posted by george roof:
As I said, I don't recall seeing any of your work posted here either?

And you won't either because I'm not a taxidermist nor did I ever claim to be one. But, since you do let's see some awesome work?

quote:

Originally posted by george roof:
I apologize for your thread getting hijacked by the testosterone crew.

I've been reading your posts for some time now, and you're the ring-leader of this crew.

quote:

Originally posted by george roof:
I've been trying to retire now for the last 10 years, so for every piece I get coming through my door (I have 2 lifesized muskox, 2 blue wildebeest, a silverback jackal, 7 lifesized bears, and 6 large whitetail bucks in full velvet for shoulder mounts that have come in since September 1), that delays my plans just that much longer.

Sounds like you need to get your ass in the shop and get to work instead of playing on the internet! I hope you get a good nights sleep with all the work on your shoulders!! At least you'll be able to pay the light bill in the future!!