Elephant leather

07 October 2011, 05:39

sevenmagltd.

Elephant leather

I'm trying to get a PH buddy to bring me 3 elephant panels over this winter. This is tanned skins taken from culled animals. Is there anyway for him to bring it over legally? He can get a CITIES permit in Zim but not sure if the Feds will let it in here without me getting some kind of same permit.
Any help appreciated!

07 October 2011, 06:56

safari-lawyer

Danger, danger Will Robinson.

Really, I believe that will require a CITES export on the Zim side and a CITES import permit on this side . . . and who knows if you can even get a Zim export permit for a culled / non sport hunted elephant.

Also, is not USF&W seizing elephant products that have been worked? Would tanned leather not be a "worked" elephant product?

This sounds like trouble on all sides to me.

07 October 2011, 07:47

sevenmagltd.

Therein lies my question. My Zim buddy says no problem getting an export permit, I just don't know how to go about getting an import permit. Not aware of feds seizing "worked" leather, what's that all about? Who would know???
Thanks

07 October 2011, 08:07

Jerry Huffaker

Call coppersmith. Well worldwide or any other broker they will tell you what you need to know

07 October 2011, 21:44

MJines

Tanned leather is not treated as a product. I swap out all of my salted and dried panels for tanned and dyed leather before it is shipped. One, it weighs a lot less to ship and two, I think the tanning and splitting in Africa for thick hides is superior to getting it done here.

08 October 2011, 03:07

safari-lawyer

quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
Tanned leather is not treated as a product. I swap out all of my salted and dried panels for tanned and dyed leather before it is shipped. One, it weighs a lot less to ship and two, I think the tanning and splitting in Africa for thick hides is superior to getting it done here.

Good to know.

Thanks, Hunter Jines.

09 October 2011, 00:58

sevenmagltd.

Preliminary info appears to be that it is possible with an export permit from Zim and an import permit from US. I will report when I find out exactly what's required.

21 October 2011, 21:12

Todd Williams

IIRC, No import permit is needed for Ele from Zim into the US. Import permit for Ele is only necessary from Tanzania.

22 October 2011, 08:01

sevenmagltd.

IIRC?? So where is it printed so I can get a copy to my Zim buddy to print out and bring with him so the goons....I mean nice customs people will not confiscate at Atlanta?
Thanks

22 October 2011, 09:19

jdollar

quote:
Originally posted by Todd Williams:
IIRC, No import permit is needed for Ele from Zim into the US. Import permit for Ele is only necessary from Tanzania.

i am pretty sure that elephant is a CITES II animal and ANY elephant will require a US CITES import permit to get it in the country- and the ele must be a sport hunted animal taken by the importing hunter. i know for sure that TZ eles are not the only ones that need a US import permit- they all do.

22 October 2011, 09:53

Todd Williams

quote:
Originally posted by jdollar:
quote:
Originally posted by Todd Williams:
IIRC, No import permit is needed for Ele from Zim into the US. Import permit for Ele is only necessary from Tanzania.

i am pretty sure that elephant is a CITES II animal and ANY elephant will require a US CITES import permit to get it in the country- and the ele must be a sport hunted animal taken by the importing hunter. i know for sure that TZ eles are not the only ones that need a US import permit- they all do.

NO! They don't!

Sorry jdollar, you are wrong here. Only Ele's from Tanzania require the CITES Import permit. Check out the US CITES Import Permit application form, page 2, about the middle of the page, item 1 under African Elephant, here is the link:

http://www.fws.gov/forms/3-200-19.pdf

It clearly states and I quote: "African elephant (Loxodonta africana) Quantity: _____ (Import permit is not required for trophies harvested in
Botswana, Namibia, South Africa, or Zimbabwe). Note: once imported, ivory can not be re-exported."

Here is additional information on the subject from the US Government:
http://www.fws.gov/internation...s/afe/pdf/salaet.pdf

It clearly states that the African Elephant is listed as Appendix I which requires a US CITES Import Permit with the exception of African Elephants from Namibia, South Africa, Botswana, and Zimbabwe, which are listed at Appendix II and DO NOT require a US CITES Import permit to be brought into the USA. Since the only other sport hunted ivory being allowed into the US is from Tanzania, one can deduce that the only ivory allowed into the US that requires a US CITES Import permit is from the country of Tanzania. The only catch I know to this is Zambia. Hasn't Zambia opened recently and if so, are the trophies allowed into the US? I know Cameroon and Moz are open but cannot be imported to the US right now.

I imported 2 Leopards and 1 Elephant Bull from Zimbabwe this year. Needed the import permit for the cats, not the ele. Sitting here in my trophy room looking at the tusks as I write this! In fact here is a pic

23 October 2011, 12:48

Todd Williams

sevenmagltd,

Do the links I provided help you at all?

Todd

24 October 2011, 00:16

sevenmagltd.

Yes and no because those permits which I am familiar with are for personal trophies. I did not shoot this elephant, merely buying surplus leather from legally taken animals. That's where the clouds begin to form! Am I missing something??

24 October 2011, 01:17

Todd Williams

quote:
Originally posted by sevenmagltd.:
IIRC?? So where is it printed so I can get a copy to my Zim buddy to print out and bring with him so the goons....I mean nice customs people will not confiscate at Atlanta?
Thanks

quote:
Originally posted by sevenmagltd.:
Yes and no because those permits which I am familiar with are for personal trophies. I did not shoot this elephant, merely buying surplus leather from legally taken animals. That's where the clouds begin to form! Am I missing something??

My question to you was in response to your post asking where it is printed? I simply supplied the links to the USFWS where it is printed.

My original post did not address whether or not you could bring in the leather, rather just mentioned that an import permit for the US is not required for Zim Elephants in response to your statement:

quote:
Originally posted by sevenmagltd.:
Preliminary info appears to be that it is possible with an export permit from Zim and an import permit from US. I will report when I find out exactly what's required.

There are no CITES Import permits required to bring Elephant trophies into the U.S. except from Tanzania. However, the USFWS does not allow commercial trade in Elephant products. I would suggest you call the USFWS about your issue. Best to ask the USFWS directly.

24 October 2011, 04:45

jdollar

quote:
Originally posted by Todd Williams:
quote:
Originally posted by jdollar:
quote:
Originally posted by Todd Williams:
IIRC, No import permit is needed for Ele from Zim into the US. Import permit for Ele is only necessary from Tanzania.

i am pretty sure that elephant is a CITES II animal and ANY elephant will require a US CITES import permit to get it in the country- and the ele must be a sport hunted animal taken by the importing hunter. i know for sure that TZ eles are not the only ones that need a US import permit- they all do.

NO! They don't!

Sorry jdollar, you are wrong here. Only Ele's from Tanzania require the CITES Import permit. Check out the US CITES Import Permit application form, page 2, about the middle of the page, item 1 under African Elephant, here is the link:

http://www.fws.gov/forms/3-200-19.pdf

It clearly states and I quote: "African elephant (Loxodonta africana) Quantity: _____ (Import permit is not required for trophies harvested in
Botswana, Namibia, South Africa, or Zimbabwe). Note: once imported, ivory can not be re-exported."

Here is additional information on the subject from the US Government:
http://www.fws.gov/internation...s/afe/pdf/salaet.pdf

It clearly states that the African Elephant is listed as Appendix I which requires a US CITES Import Permit with the exception of African Elephants from Namibia, South Africa, Botswana, and Zimbabwe, which are listed at Appendix II and DO NOT require a US CITES Import permit to be brought into the USA. Since the only other sport hunted ivory being allowed into the US is from Tanzania, one can deduce that the only ivory allowed into the US that requires a US CITES Import permit is from the country of Tanzania. The only catch I know to this is Zambia. Hasn't Zambia opened recently and if so, are the trophies allowed into the US? I know Cameroon and Moz are open but cannot be imported to the US right now.

I imported 2 Leopards and 1 Elephant Bull from Zimbabwe this year. Needed the import permit for the cats, not the ele. Sitting here in my trophy room looking at the tusks as I write this! In fact here is a pic

i stand corected and thanks much for the info. BTW, beautiful tusk mounts!!

24 October 2011, 05:44

Todd Williams

Thanks. It took me a couple of years to get them. I must admit, I was worried about them for awhile. Need to get a bigger set now.

Todd

24 October 2011, 23:34

impala#03

I hunted in Zambia the first part of October this year. My PH told me elephant could not be imported into the US at the present time. Possibly in the future if the USFW and Zambia agree on elephant populations in Zambia.

25 October 2011, 01:32

Todd Williams

quote:
Originally posted by impala#03:
I hunted in Zambia the first part of October this year. My PH told me elephant could not be imported into the US at the present time. Possibly in the future if the USFW and Zambia agree on elephant populations in Zambia.

I thought that was the case but didn't know for sure. Thanks for the info!