What do you think of this statement from the South Carolina Deer Study?

" For shots that struck the shoulder (170/222, or 76.6 %), the mean distance traveled was 3 yards."

Somehow the statement is so general that I wonder if all you need to do is to hit a shoulder and reach for your knife! What do you think?

Link

On a "through and through" with a rifle, MOST deer will go nose first into the dirt with a shoulder shot. My prefered shot is behind the shoulder, hitting both lungs and hopefully the heart too. A friend of mine shoots everything in the shoulders, and they all go down on the spot, while I don"t expect mine to even fall to the shot.
good shooting

The details in the study make it clear to me that their study indicated that if you break the scapula with your shot, there is a very high probability of causing massive trauma to the spine. Trauma to the central nervous system of that nature does result in "bang-flop", on deer, in my experience.

The diagram here:https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3411043/m/732106445
makes their findings very easy to relate to.

AZPete

That is my very unscientific finding as well. I think you get some secondary projectiles from bone, etc. as well as the sudden shock to the spine. End result is that a high shoulder shot flattens them. You are also putting your bullet where it takes a bigger mistake to gut shoot one, which if you're a little far back you make a perfect lung shot instead of guts.

If I ever took a shoulder shot on anything other than a grizz bear. I would probaly kick my own ass for ruining all the meat in the front half, not to mention what my dad or grandfather would say. Go tight in behind the shoulder both lungs and don't worry about it again.

Just do a search here on that very subject and you'll get a belly full from the usual suspects.
As for me, about halfway up the front leg AKA the "shoulder" (althugh it really isn't) works for me. Don't care for behind the shoulder, they go to far down here in the Alabama briars and thorns and ravines. jorge

I'd like to know EXACTLY what they mean by "shoulder shot".What bones were hit , what other things were hit.I like lung shots as little meat is lost and the animal bleeds out and they usually go 50 yds.One shoulder shot with Win Partition 45-70 hit right on the shoulder joint, smashing it , then through the lungs .It STILL went 50 yds !!! The sure thing to drop a deer is a spine shot !

That is the shot I take all the time, works great.

That study has been floating around awhile, trust me, it has its share of flaws.

Regardless, this is what I call a "shoulder" shot, and for me, it has always been a drt:

If your meat hunting you may want to put a different hit other than a shoulder shot. If your hunting a sure nuff trophy deer, break them down. A shoulder shot may not kill immediately but even a big deer is not going very far. For a true trophy a shoulder shot or any other big bone hit is it.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
That study has been floating around awhile, trust me, it has its share of flaws.

Regardless, this is what I call a "shoulder" shot, and for me, it has always been a drt:

Thanks for the picture Doc. Thats where I shoot them when it's easy. I call it the base of the neck and everytime it's lights out.

I was taught to save meat and shoot them behind the shoulder and just over the top of the heart. I have shot hundreds of them but at this moment can't think of one shoulder shot. I save the meat but I have so much. Like Jorge says I like them dead right there. They don't suffer then either.

no problem. Please understand, I take these shots only when everything is right. I still take my fair share of quartering to and away shots right to the heart also, especially if that is the only shot I have. But ideally, I like watching the shoulder shot as it has never ever failed me. Like already stated: It is LIGHTS OUT.

As for meat, well, label me guilty. I could care less about a little meat loss. To me that is like eating a dinner with green beans, aka "string beans" and throwing away one half of small bean. Woopy do.

That picture is really a spine shot ! ...And what about shots to the " front shoulder" ?

You are correct. But that is the purpose of a shoulder shot anyway. It's close proximity to the spine is the reason for this shoulder shot...shatter the bone into the spine. You can call it a 'front shoulder' shot.

I call it, 'a sure thing.' Any shot along the scapula works well. I prefer to aim at the base of the neck/shoulder transition region due to the neurovascular bundle that feeds the front extremity. The exiting nerve roots from the neck converge here and it really shocks the animal.

I'd have to disagree a bit with the spine/shoulder shot discussion. Assuming a roughly 90% approach angle, on a shoulder shot as long as you hit at least a couple of inches about the body line which takes out the heart, I find that ANY shoulder shot is the best anchoring shot, outside of a head or spine shot, which is much more difficult to hit exactly.

In Doc's diagrammed shot (which is certainly a kill shot if performed correctly), if you're a little high, a little low, or a little too far forward, you can VERY easily lose that deer. A mid shoulder shot gives you quite a bit more margin of error.

Like most here, if I'm hunting for meat, I don't take shoulder shots at all (since I live near my ranch, I shoot most of my meat deer in the head or ribs depending on the angle but I'm under no pressure to kill one right now as doe day hunters, etc can be), but let Mr. Venado Grande step out and he's a shoulder shot deer.

Ha, was hoping for a hog near a feeder last night (settled for a big coyote that came out at the very last vestige of shooting light) and saw a very nice buck for this area on a mineral lick I made. I'd kind of hate to end the fun so early but if he shows up again Sunday, my trophy hunt for the season may be over. I only allow each hunter one trophy on my place and that includes me......I dunno what I'd do if a 180 plus walked out later tho. LOL

I place my shots behind the shoulder and most deer drop on the spot or within a few steps.I haven't had a deer travel 50 yards after being hit in many years.Of course using the 140gr ballistic tip driven out of a 7mmstw at 3500fps is a big factor as well.When I used partitions in lower velocity cartridges, the deer often ran a bit before dropping even if one shoulder was broken.Of course if both shoulders are broken they drop at the shot.

Shoulder shots will drop and/or anchor an animal, often damaging the spine too.
It will bleed and die out before it gets it's feet back under it.

"Behind the shoulder" will mortally wound an animal allowing it to run 50 to 200 yards.
Rarely does any animal drop on the spot when hit behind the shoulder.

I have seen this hundreds, that is literally hundreds of times.

A friend once told me that if you can put a bullet through the lungs on the animals' exhale (when you see the steam coming out the mouth on cold days) it should drop instantly.
Supposedly it cuts the animals' air supply when oxygen it at it's lowest and, the trauma of the impact, combined with not being able to take another breath cause the animal to drop straight away.
To me it's still just a theory and very hard to purposefully execute but could explain the odd "instant" kill with lung shots.

I agree With EXPRESS I use shoulder shots when I want to drop the critter right there.

When one is hunting in places where a deer running even few feet could mean the lost of the deer breaking them down works.

It is better to lose a front shoulders meat then lose the whole animal.

quote:

Rarely does any animal drop on the spot when hit behind the shoulder.

True when shot w/ some carts but, not true w/ others. I've found through piles of kills that when using an expansive bullet and high velocity the shots just behind the shoulder tend to drop whitetails just as well as the direct shoulder hits and you don't lose anything but ribs. I've dropped truck loads of whitetails without touching the shoulder. My theory on the matter is that the expansive high velocity slug imparts enough shock on impact to temporarily paralize the animal and the hemoraging kills them before they come to. If you've ever seen someone shoot a deer and knock them out on the spot and then the animal gets up and runs a little piece after a few seconds, you'll see that paralizing effect I'm speaking of. OTOH when I hunt w/ my 30-30 or 270 you can bet on around a 30-80 yard blood trail if you don't get a good bone.

Any of you fellas go for the high behind the shoulder shots? Lots of folks around here love that shot, takes out the bottom of the spine and drops them on the spot. Also doesn't ruin any meat.


Good Luck

Reloader

We beat this one pretty soundly not to long ago.

If presented a broadside shot I go for the top of the heart. Quartering away, I try to take the same shot but keeping the center of the chest between the front legs as my aim point, even if I clip the liver. Quartering toward, depends on the up/down angle even more. Base of the neck works great.

I intentionaly don't aim for the shoulder bones. Nate

I am a Muley hunter and a lung popper. The only time that a behind the shoulder shot did not drop one on the spot for me was when I used a 243.

Lots of variables here IMO. Caliber selection, bullet selection and they all play into, and coincide with shot placement and its effectivness.

For the most part I like traditional slugs coupled with 06 ish velocities, and only aim at a shoulder when its a quarting away shot, the far side shoulder. I have no doubt that a well placed "premium" bullet into a shoulder is quite effective though. But it is far from being the "only" effective approach.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
That study has been floating around awhile, trust me, it has its share of flaws.

Regardless, this is what I call a "shoulder" shot, and for me, it has always been a drt:

I'd actually call that a low neck shot myself. Move it back 4in and I'd call that a shoulder, move it back 6-8in +/- 2-3in lower is where I shoot.

I go behind the shoulder and high attempting to get both spinal shock and a double lung.

On bigger animals that tend to walk a lot before blood loss (elk) then breaking the shoulder is a good thing. On whitetails, I like a high shot to drop em in their place. Head on I shoot central and high: hit the aorta and head/neck vessels and shock the spine.

I just love when people say not to shoot the shoulder on a deer because you ruin to much meat. I just shot a bow buck that dressed at 150 even on the scale. I ground both fronts into burger. I got 7lbs between the both fronts. I stripped them clean to the bone. So on the average deer if you lose one front you figure 3lbs. I would rather lose that then have to track one in some of the stuff I rifle hunt. Whats 3lbs anyway? Shoulder shots put them down period.

I would call that a neck shot here in Mo. My spot would be back of there about 4 in, maybe a bit lower. In other words, I'd go straight up the leg. I've also never found a lot of good meat in a deer's shoulder. Personally I like to eat the loins a heck of a lot better!

I don't do it, I like to keep it tight behind the sholder through the lungs. Both shots get the job done and result in a dead deer. I also hunt plains mule deer most of the time and I can keep them in sight from impact to where they fall.

quote:

posted by dakor
I just love when people say not to shoot the shoulder on a deer because you ruin to much meat. I just shot a bow buck that dressed at 150 even on the scale. I ground both fronts into burger. I got 7lbs between the both fronts. I stripped them clean to the bone. So on the average deer if you lose one front you figure 3lbs. I would rather lose that then have to track one in some of the stuff I rifle hunt. Whats 3lbs anyway? Shoulder shots put them down period.

Shooting throught the sholder with a bow is completly different than shooting one with a rifle. You will definatly damage more meat with the rifle every time. If I shot a classic broad side through the sholders I'm sure all of my rifles would ruin both sides.

I am currently using a 300 Win Mag with 150 gr bullets at about 3200fps (I don't own a crony yet) I have shot several deer over the last many years and the ones that I hit in the spine went straight down. I find it interesting that some of you say to shoot them in the shoulder. I will not say that it is a bad idea and even think I will try it myself this season. I have bad knees and don't like to walk through the high brush and weeds to find a deer even though I have done it many times in the past. If it can be dropped on the spot I am for it.

I was told about a guy shooting a deer in the hind quarters thinking he would anchor the deer. It ran he did not find it and I am sure it suffered a miserable death.

quote:

Originally posted by jstevens:
I would call that a neck shot here in Mo.

quote:

Originally posted by FMC:

I'd actually call that a low neck shot myself.

Neck shot, shoulder shot, doesn't matter. I call it a shoulder shot because when I dress the deer, the shoulder bones are always destroyed. I think we're getting stuck on a word. I know, lets call it a 'great' shot.

Taylorce1 I think you missed my point. I shot it with a bow meaning not through the shoulders. The shoulders were perfect and I got 7lbs between both of them. My point was deer shoulders have very little meat.

Doc

I'll agree, whatever you call the shot, you can call the deer dead. The best part is a little forward, is a neck shot, dead deer, a bit far back, a high lung shot, dead deer, low, is a heart shot, still a dead deer. It is even better to fudge a little far forward on a moving deer.

dakor you are right there is very little meat on a deers front shoulders when one gets to boneing it out.