If you were going to purchase a duel deer/elk rifle using the following criteria:
- Short action
- Lighter recoil
- Mountain/ light/youth size
- Good knock down power at the 250-300 yard range

I am going to share this gun with my boys 13 and 15. The calibers I am narrowed down to are 7-08 and 270wsm. I reload and will be using Barnes TSX bullets.

The guns I am leaning toward are the:
- Savage Sierra, both calibers (accurate and rugged)
- Howa Ultra Light 7-08 (good value)
- Browning A-Bolt Micro, both calibers. (maybe to pretty but good quality)

I didn’t choose the Ruger Compact/Frontier because I already have one. The gun will be topped with a Conquest 3x9. I also don’t have any of the above brands, which is appealing.

Does anybody have a better suggestion for caliber or gun? Feedback on the quality and accuracy of the guns chosen would also be helpful. Thanks K-man

Remington sps in .308 good value, short action, R3 recoil pad(Limbsaver), bullet weights from 130gr. to 180gr. and low recoil. 270 win. would also be a good choice 110gr. to 160gr. but I see you were looking at short actions. The recoil is not bad at all in the sps and with a 2-7 power vx-1 it would be a killer combo. Good Luck

Either of those cartridges will get it done. Of the 2 my favorite would be the .270 WSM. Have you considered the Kimber 8400? It comes in the WSM cartridges. http://www.kimberamerica.com/rifles/8400wsm/classic.php They are a tad pricey but I believe they are good quality.

It is a good thing that you reload. And with that in mind have you considered the 300 WSM? You can load it up or down and you might feel more comfortable with it than the 270.

As for the Savages I don't like them because I have never had one to feed from the magazine right without some tweeking. This might be something you want to look at.

K-Man
From the criteria and rifle choices you specify, the Savage 7mm-08 would be the better selection, allow me to explain my reasoning:
1) The 7mm-08 has about 30% less recoil
2) The 7mm-08 has ample energy at 300 yards
3) All rifles mentioned have 20†barrels, the 7mm-08 is more efficient with this barrel
4) The 7mm-08 has a wider selection of bullets (including Barnes TSX)
5) Savage is known for its “out-of-the-box†accuracy
6) The Savage receiver makes a good donor action should you decide to later build a customized rifle
With all that said concerning the 7mm-08, the .270 WSM would be my first choice for elk, but in a longer barreled rifle.
Unless you are totally committed to a short action, The Remington 700 Mountain DM in .280 Rem. may be one of the best combo deer/elk rifles available. It is lightweight, accurate, has an excellent recoil pad and has a 22†barrel which is perfect for the .280. The 700 receiver is the most popular action for customizing as well. The .280 cartridge can be loaded to shoot as flat as a .270 Win. and also will handle the heavier bullets that would be more suitable for elk, with less recoil than the .270 WSM. IMHO this may be the most versatile “off the rack†rifle on the market today.
Good luck with whatever decision you make and good hunting to you and your boys.
Dave

I would choose the 7mm-08 as well.Much less recoil and heavier bullets available if you prefer.However,I would choose the howa rifle.

I second the choice of the Howa rifle, and I like the 270 WSM as you are a reloader. This gives you the ability to taylor recoil to suit, and with the XXX 140 gr. you have a real performer for elk.

Good luck--Don

kaboovy, I just bought my nephew a new 270 wsm and it seems to be a great little rifle for deer/elk. Its a winchester black shadow and was very accurate out of the box. It will also hold way better value than a junky ol' savage!!...........good luck, wapiti7

Kaboovy ----- My shooting time with the 7mm-08 is limited to two rifles owned by buddies who loaded their own but wanted me to zero. I own a .270 WSM and have shot it extensively. My advice is buy a Browning A-Bolt in .270 WSM, it will put the 7mm-08 to shame as far as pure shooting is concerned. In my book light for Elk, as is the 7mm-08, unless you are Cow hunting and don't mind loosing that Bull of a lifetime. The 7mm-08 will shoot heavier bullets but the difference in speed of the WSM and the use of the 150 grain .277 bullet will more than make up for that. Just my .02's for what it is worth. Good shooting.

The 7mm08 will work very well with 140TSX's and recoil is very light.

As mentioned earlier the Remington SPS is a good gun and is built on the famed 700 action. It can also be had in the calibers you are considering including the 270WSM. I am personally not a big fan of elk hunting with bullets that light and would really lean more to the 300WSM which is pretty comfortable to shoot and gives better bullet weight variations for elk. That said I have the Remington SPS in 270WSM and that thing shoots factory 150 grain Federal Fusion bullets under an inch all day long. They can be had in blue synthetic for around $400 and around $470 for stainless which is a tremendous value.

For a youth rifle with easy recoil the 7-08 is clearly a better choice. The only thing the 270 WSM will do that it wont is shoot a bit flatter at ranges beyond where 90% of NA game are taken. Otherwise the "big advantages" of the WSM over the 7-08 are grossly exaggerated IMHO, and frankly when talking Elk there will be times when you will be better served with a bigger slug than a 270 can muster.

I consider 7mm my personal minimal preference for Elk although smaller calibers will do the job.

I think the Howa's are a great value but they wouldnt be my first choice as a lightweight rifle. Id probably go with the Savage of the ones you listed and considering the criteria.

I agree with Agrali that for both deer and Elk a good 280 is the bees knees, but I would prefer to have one built on a 1903 Springfield action.

What about a 300wsm with a muzzle brake and reduced loads for the kids/wife and I can put it in overdrive when I want? It would handle most game and I could reload for most applications. I have no experience with brakes.

If they reduce recoil 30% then that would get it just below the 30-06 they both shoot. Can you put them on any gun? Then I could throw it on the Browning A-bolt Micro which comes in a 300wsm. Thx. K-man

quote:

I have no experience with brakes.

I do have some experience with brakes.They greatly increase the noise to the shooter,and even a single shot fired without hearing protection can cause permanent damage to your hearing.One of our club members is living proof of that fact.He shot an elk with a braked rifle and his ears rang for a few hours.We have regular hearing tests at work and until that point his hearing was normal.However his hearing tests taken since then show a noticeable loss of hearing.I owned one braked rifle,and will never own another.

I have to agree with stubblejumper here. Do not do that to your boys, unless you ALWAYS wear electronic hearing protection. If the recoil is too much, then just don't do it. I do not know what the 270WSM recoil is like, but I know the 7-08 os just fine and the noise won't kill you either. Just remember, the lighter the rifle, the greater the felt recoil, so unless the boys can truely withstand the recoil, I wouldn't do anything that says "magnum" behind it.

I would do the Howa in 7-08.

I have never shot either cartridge you mentioned but can't imagine why either would not work. I'd want a rifle with a 22" barrel, make wouldn't matter to me. I'd also go for no more than a 2-7x scope. It's a bit smaller and in my mind not only makes a handier package but also offers all the magnification you really need for hunting big game. My new deer/elk rifle is a Win featherweight with a 1-4x scope. I've a 30-06, I never shoot game with, that has a straight 2 3/4x scope and my last deer/elk rifle was a Rem 660 w/20" barrel and a 2 3/4x scope. I do have a couple of 3-9x scopes, one on a 6.5-06 and one on a 25-06. The only time they're off 3x is when I'm shooting at the range sighting in or when I;m out plinking; then they are on 6x. I have a couple old 3-9x scopes with brand new 7, 8 and 9x in them.

K-Man,
Check out this post & pictures: http://longrangehunting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat...=0&fpart=1&vc=1&nt=2

It gives a good example of what a 7mm-08 can do. Magnums are wonderful things and I love em’; but the 7-08 is a very comfortable gun for lots of practice and regardless of caliber; shot placement is everything. At 300 yds. or less the TSX will shred the lungs of any deer or elk. But regardless of your final choice; I highly recommend the use of ear protection; percussion damage is irreversible.

Recoil of the 270 WSM in a full-sized A-bolt is pretty stiff/sharp. I don't think I'd want to have my kids shoot one in a lighter rifle than that (like a youth-sized gun).

I'd vote for either the 7-08 or a regular 308. In fact, I just bought a Rem SPS in 308 Sunday. The only thing I would change is to move to a 22" bbl from the factory 24" tube. Other than that, it's a nice rifle for the price, and I have no plans to change the bbl until I use it for a while.

From your choices, I would pick the 7mm-08. I am not much of a magnum fan.

As far as rifles, handle them all and let your instincts tell you which one to buy. I would probably lean towards a Kimber (if they even make a 7-08) or Remington.

If you buy your son rifles,shotguns,etc., don't give them to him permanently until he's finished college or trade training and is settled in.I gave my 18 yr old son a 12g Rem 870 TB, a Belgium made Browning Grade 2 30-06 semiauto & a Rem 788 in 243 he sold them all cheap to buy drugs.Years later he was invited on a hunting trip and wanted to borrow one of my rifles so I bought some ammo from the Old West Scrounger for a 1930's 7.35mm Italian Terni Rifle and offered it loan it to him,he said he wanted one of my Sakos but I told him it was the terni or nothing or he could go buy his rifles and shotgun back.He contacted my dealer and bought his own rifle and shotgun.If I had to do it over I'd buy a Thompson Center Encore ,register it as a pistol and then buy a shotgun barrel & some rifle barrels.

Based on all the great feedback and the fact my wife may use this gun for elk instead of her 243, I am going to chose the 7m-08. Considering that I reload there is a great selection of bullets. Also as I get older shooting a 7m-08 instead of my 300 RUM might be fun and less fret with injury.

Also, based on the feedback, I should have a minimum 22 inch barrel if not 24? So I am leaning toward a standard gun. I can reduce the stock to fit my younger son and wife and later on change the stock to my liking. I am inclined to purchase an inexpensive synthetic Savage so mutilating the stock won’t be a big loss. Now starts the research for shortening the stock. Any advise? I’ll go post over at gun smithing also. Thanks K-man

I have the 7mm08 in an old 700 varmint cut to 20" and it is a joy to shoot and extremely accurate. You will love the 7mm08 and TSX bullets. Mine works great with Varget.

Why not just buy an extra after market stock and bed both of them for the same action? Then just drop the barrel/action in which ever stock fits who's using it. I never tried that but bet you could do it easy.

If you're thinking about using two stocks, take a good look at the Weatherby Vangard Compact. These come with two stocks - one full-sized synthetic and one youth-sized painted wood. Just drop the metal into the right stock for the person and you're set. Plus they come in 7-08 and the price is very good. I'd say they are worth a look, if you're not thrown by the fact that 'Weatherby' is stamped on them...

Weatherby web info

Scrp83 has in my opinion the best idea yet. Single shot to teach them to plant that first shot well. It will be likely the only one they will get. As for a short action the single shot is the shortest of all.
For a little fellow starting out with deer a 243 barrel may be just the ticket. Let the youngster decide when they are ready for a bigger whack on both ends. For the wife or older teen a 7-08, 30-06 or 280 barrel might do well. Barrels go all the way up to 416 Rigby. If they need to hunt in a state that required a slug gun, purchase of a barrel and they are in business. Muzzle load conversion is available too. Good luck gun hunting.