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Mr Stainless, Welcome to this forum. Good alternative calibres could be .300 win mag, .308 Win, 30/06 or 9.3X62. These calibers are the most versatile calibers. You can use a large range of bullet's weight. For elk and big animals you can use the .300 Win mag but the best choice is 9.3X62. For small animals you can use light bullets in .308,30/06 and .300 win mag. Best choice .308 or 30/06. If you want a good rifle with a good price take a CZ rifle. You can find a CZ with all calibers listed up. Hope this can help you.IMHO ------------------ | |||
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quote: I disagree with this advice. The .300 Win Mag is an excellent choice, fully adequate for everything in North America, and for most things smaller than the big five throughout the world. But the 9.3X62 (and all the 9.3s) are almost unknown and nonexistent in North America, so factory loads, brass, and bullets would be strictly a mail-order or on-line order proposition. It is a very poor choice for North America. Far better, if you want something larger than the .300 Win mag, would be a .338 Win mag. It is fully adequate for anything native to North America, and would work well for almost everything in the world. It is universally known and used in North America, and getting loads for it would not be a problem. If you want the one world-class largish caliber, with factory ammunition available throughout the world, get a .375 Holland and Holland. People argue endlessly whether it's large enough for the largest animals (elephant, cape buffalo, rhino), but thousands of those animals have been taken successfully with it. OK. I looked more carefully at your address and see you are from Sweden. So maybe my comments about North America are not germane to your situation. But I still think the .338 and/or .375 would be a better choice than any of the 9.3s. If you want a smaller caliber for deer, I understand that the 6.5X55 is very popular there, and it would work very well. The .308 would also be very good, and cheap ammunition (for practice) is widely available for it. Personally, I like the .270 Winchester, but I don't know how popular it is there. [This message has been edited by LE270 (edited 02-25-2002).] | |||
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| <Mr Stainless> |
Ok thanks. The 9.3's are quite big here in Swe but I thougt the 375 H&H is a bit more classic. The combo 6.5x55 and 9.3x62 is the general advice I get but I think maybe a 7 mmRM and a 375 would be a nice combo... Whats your opinion on that?? | ||
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LE270, See all posts in this forum regarding 9.3 calibers. You'll be surprised that is posted by US citizens. I agree with you, 9.3 caliber are so popular in USA than in EU, but we'll discuss about it in forthcoming year because the situation is changing. Speer made 9.3 bullets so availability in USA is good. I'll give you a US caliber in order to know if 9.3 caliber is appropiate or not for North American game. You can compare 9.3X62 with .35 Whelen Ackley Imp. If you judge this US caliber is not appropriate for North American game is up to you. The .338 Win mag is great caliber and coulb be a choice for large game. I agree. ------------------ | |||
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| one of us |
Given you have fallow and reds as well as roe do you mean roe only for your deer rifle? I would have thought 8x57 was an EXCELLENT one rifle for Deer and Moose and an even better compromise than 6.5x55 for all or 9.3x62 for all. I doubt your syndicate would thank you for getting a 300 win mag or variant? Anyhow if I lived in Sweden and wanted 2 rifles they would be 222rem and 6.5x55 or 6.5x55 and 9.3x62 depending on where I lived and my priorities. | |||
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Mr. Stainless, you could not ask for a better battery IMHO. If you are like me you will end up using the 375 for everything. No lost animals and no blood trailing. Use enough gun. Good hunting and shopping. "D" | |||
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| one of us |
A 6,5x55 and a 9,3x62/375 H&H. For the 6,5 you can get really cheap practice ammo. If you choose the 9,3x62 there is also some cheaper ammo available for practice, if you choose the 375 there aren't. I've recently bought a 375 H&H and already have a 6,5x55. I'll use the 375 for the "class 1" animals since in Sweden there is a lower limit for rifles (bullet weight 140/156 gr and energy 2700/2000 J at 100 meters) for larger animals, ie moose, red stag, fallow deer, wild boar and brown bear. I'll use the 6,5 for everything else. There is no reason to get a smaller calibre for me. That said your 8x57 JS is just fine for all of the above | |||
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And by the way, we hunt moose and not elk  | |||
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quote: I don't mean that the 9.3s would not be good calibers for the largest North American game -- ballistically and in terms of killing power they would be. The problem is that 9.3s are extremely rare and obscure here, so they would count as an exotic. I doubt that you'll find many sporting goods stores anywhere in North America that stock 9.3 ammunition. It's true that Speer and other bulletmakers make 9.3 bullets, but that is helpful only to those who handload. 9.3 brass is not made, so far as I know, by Remington, Winchester, Federal, or any other major American manufacturer, so it too will be harder to get here, or you will have to form it from some other caliber. If you are a North American hunter, why burden yourself with such problems -- unless you want a 9.3 because of its rarity and obscurity -- when there are significantly better choices here, such as the .338 Win mag? [This message has been edited by LE270 (edited 02-26-2002).] | |||
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quote: Personally, I think the 7mm Rem mag has more power, noise, and blast than is necessary -- or even useful -- for deer-sized animals. I think the 6.5X55 in combination with the 375 would be excellent. If you really want a 7mm, then I think the 7X57 would be an excellent choice. [This message has been edited by LE270 (edited 02-25-2002).] | |||
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LE270,
If you are a North American hunter, why burden yourself with such problems -- unless you want a 9.3 because of its rarity and obscurity -- when there are significantly better choices here, such as the .338 Win mag? [/QUOTE] If I lived in your place, for sure my best calibers for big game'll be .35 Whelen AI or a .338 Win or a .348 Win. Ackley Imp. I prefer these calibers than .375 H&H. IMHO ------------------ | |||
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quote: The .35 Whelen AI and the .348 Win AI have even greater problems than the 9.3s because they are wildcats, meaning that you would have to do brass forming for them, and that you'd have to go to extra expense and trouble getting loading dies for them. You cannot, to the best of my knowledge anyway, buy factory loads for them. Unless you're into that sort of thing and gain pleasure from it, I think those calibers would be very bad choices. If you want a powerful .35 caliber, I think the .358 Norma Mag would be far better than those you mention, even though it too is obscure and exotic. But at least you could get factory brass for it and maybe even factory loads (from Norma). [This message has been edited by LE270 (edited 02-25-2002).] | |||
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LE270, Don't take it bad. What are your hunting calibers? As I guess you don't reload yourself. I have the .358 norma mag in my book but for this caliber it is obscur in belgium too. It is wonderful to reload his own calibers, you safe money but you loose time, but you can adapt your loads to yourself. to find the most accurate loads.IMHO ------------------ | |||
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| <Kimmo E> |
Get a 6,5 for deer and keep your 8*57is for moose, or get a 7*64b or 280r for both MVH Kimmo | ||
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quote: 6mm Remington, .270 Winchester, .300 Weatherby Mag., .375 H&H. Yes, I do reload -- in fact, I almost never shoot factory ammunition! But I do think there's a utility to having calibers that you can get factory ammunition for, should the need arise. Also, I don't think that one should advise another person to go for an obscure or wildcat caliber unless you already know that the person you are giving advice to is a good reloader and/or someone who gets pleasure from using exotic calibers. | |||
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quote: LE270, Not trying to butt in here, but in case you missed it I thought I'd point out that the original poster is from Sweden (Mr. Stainless) and BEROO7 did recommend calibres that are very common (not exotic) in Sweden. Restricting his replies to those calibres that are common in North America would not have answered the original question very well. Again, my apologies for my intrusion, but it seems there is just a simple misunderstanding here. | |||
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quote: You're right. But if you look at my first response to Mr. Stainless, you will see there that I did eventually note that he's from Sweden and that my remarks about North America may not be germane to his situation. After that, the discussion between BER007 and me began to center on what calibers would be good for North America. I gave my reservations about exotic and wildcat calibers, and expressed my belief that the 9.3s are exotic in North America. I agree with you that what is exotic here in North America may not be so in Sweden or elsewhere. [This message has been edited by LE270 (edited 02-26-2002).] | |||
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LE270, 6mm Remington, .270 Winchester, .300 Weatherby Mag., .375 H&H. [/QUOTE] I have nearly same calibers as you. In some EU countries the minimum caliber for hunting medium animals is the 6.5 caliber. I'll have as hunting calibres 7X64,.300 win mag and 9.3X62. I already have 30/30,.444 marlin,.308 Win and .450 Ackley mag. I think that 9.3X62 will become a popular caliber in the USA where it isn't the case. Regarding your .300 Weatherby, it is not too powerful for North American games?. I have consider this caliber, but I have found .300 Win mag more versatile. ------------------ | |||
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| <HOG> |
I would have to say that the .257 Roberts in a sporter weight rifle, such as the ruger 77 would be great for deer. As for elk the 338-06 or the .338 mag would be good choices depending upon the range you will be shooting. | ||
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BER007, No, I don't think the .300 Weatherby is too powerful for North American game, especially elk, moose, large bears, and distant shots at anything. I wouldn't recommend its use on deer at distances under 200 yards, and especially with light (150 grain) bullets, as they tend to destroy too much meat. But with heavier bullets, meat damage is less. Also, if you want to do so -- I did tests to demonstrate it for myself -- you can load the Weatherby down to 30-06 velocities (about 2700 f.p.s.) with 180 grain bullets. The .300 Winchester mag. may be more versatile, as you claim, but it does give up some power at the top end. I can get 3000+ (almost 3100) f.p.s. with 200 grain bullets, and 3200+ (almost 3300) f.p.s. with 180 grain bullets from my rifle (Remington 700 with 24 inch barrel) using IMR 7828 powder. In any case, many American hunters are now going for the .300 Remington Ultra Magnum, which is even more powerful (by maybe 100 to 150 f.p.s.) than the Weatherby. Apparently they do not feel that even it is too much for American game. | |||
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LE270, Many thanks. But i have read that a 180 gr bullet is the best choice for hunting with a .300 win mag, I suppose this is the same case with .300 weatherby. ------------------ | |||
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| one of us |
I repeat my question, what deer are you hunting? And add a question do you hunt capers and black grouse? The answers to these have a significant effect on the advice given no? | |||
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| <Mr Stainless> |
1894: Yes roe deer as max for the "smaller". I inherented my 8mm and its seen a lot of action in my grandfathers hands. The stock is broken and I cant get 5 shots within 10 cm (approx 4 inch) at 100 meters with any ammo. The cost to get it fixed and a new scope leads me to get a new gun (or two). In sweden we are limited to 4 (6 if you can motivate your needs) and I have to get rid of this to make room for the new ones. For the memory of him I will keep his Browning SbyS 16 ga which is in mint condition, so no disrespect here... | ||
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| <ChuckD> |
Mr Stainless, Your question about the 7mm remington mag was once answered in this thread, but I have a different opinion than the previous poster.I have a 7 mag that I have used for 20 years hunting blacktail deer in Oregon, USA. These deer have a live weight of 150 lbs to 300 lbs for the bucks. In the beginning I had a lot of problems with this caliber, as there were only a couple of bullet choices in this calibre----bullets designed for long range shots on deer sized animals or bullets designed for deep penetration on elk sized animals. Eventually, I discovered the 160 grain Nosler Partition, which works on deer at close range as well as longer ranges. You see, in the areas I hunt, deer are frequently killed at ranges between 25 yds and 100 yds. It worked even better when I loaded the ammunition to about 2900 fps, which is about the same as many 270's. Yes the 7 mag can be a fine caliber for deer. As I look back over 40 years of hunting deer and elk, I find that the rifle has been of far more importance to me than calibre. If it is a rifle that feels right, that is easy to shoot well in typical hunting positions, and that I enjoy shooting in the off-season---I do my best with that particular rifle regardless of calibre. I would not recommend that you abandon your 8mm, but that you find another rifle(s) that has that special feel to it and add it to your battery. My 7mm mag is one of those, as is my Marlin 44 mag carbine, my 308**** have fun, Chuck | ||
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Hej Stainless! Well I would go 222 or 6.5x55 for roe with a good light gathering scope as you can shoot them darker than moose. If you're going to go bigger than 222 it makes little sense not to get a 6.5 which can double as a moose, lynx, bear and wolf gun too no? A 7mm rem mag is in my opinion luncacy for a deer weighing 35lbs for the larder. For moose you guys know better than me but it would be a bit silly not to get a calibre that Norma makes Oryx loaded ammo for that is easily available no? If you would like to try my 6.5x55 or 9.3x62 I will be happy to give you a go on both if I'm on the next door stand to you with the other on opening week | |||
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| <303hunter> |
Will .35 Whelen and .348 Win. fireform (full factory load) in their respective Ackley Improved chambers? Hope Gramps' 8x57js will not be sold or traded away. What a nice project for those cold winter nights; the new barrel and stock and peep sight. A brand new barrel mated with a healthy handload would put all your rifle worries to rest. | ||
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How about a 8x57IS? Its proven, especially for you, a Nosler Partition 200 grs ahead of 4064 or 4350 or Norma 204 will kill moose and dont ruin much meat for deer. Out to 200 m the trajectory difference is not really noticeable, and if you don�t shoot at over 250 m stay with your caliber. Perhaps you already have dies, ammo, components? But if you just want something else ... 8x68S & 9.3x62 for the big stuff ( do you want a cannon? ), 6.5x55, 7x57, 243 with premium bullets, 6.5x65?. An important question: "Do I want the same gun everybody and his brother has?" Have fun Hermann ------------------ | |||
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Make a custom stock and fix it up a bit instead if it's in good condition.
Canuck