I see one of the people who posts here starting out nearly every post saying he "just saw a Grizzly" and has done so apparently every time he walks outside for a good number of years now. There are places I frequent where I could mention seeing a lot of Black Bears, but certainly don't see the need to mention it in EVERY post I make.

I know the Grizzly Bears do get to a very large size. Also know of a Black that was killed near Greenville, NC (Pitt County) that weighed in at 830 pounds.

I remember reading a lot of Grizzly Bear stories from about 40 of the past 50 years or so in the Gun Rags. Always the "close encounter" and the occasional bad results of someone turning into Bear food. Now there seems to be a lot of folks just out "walking around" in the Grizzly areas with nothing but bells on their feet or a can of Bear Spray.

Then along would come another story about more people being killed by Black Bears than Grizzly Bears, which seemed to "imply" they were certainly more of a threat to be around than the Grizzlies.
---

1. Which do you all think poses the biggest threat to man when he is afield?

2. What is your opinion of Bear Spray and have you ever used it?

Never used bear spray, but I have to doubt its effectiveness on bears after hearing that Grandfather Mountain was trying to lessen the destructive impact from the bears they have in captivity on their habitat. They ground up some Habenaro peppers and added water and poured the concoction in a garden sprayer to spray it on the trees and other stuff the bears were destroying. Yogi and Boo Boo loved it. They would stand there and drink it.

I would put the Grizzly as more dangerous.

As far as pepper spray, when in it's canned, CONCENTRATED form, it indeed works.

However, studies have shown that when it is sprayed on an object, and the potency dimishes shortly after, it actually acts as an attractant.

I would say that the Grizzly along with it's close relative the Brown Bear would be the most dangerous!
These bears have been known to hunt people!

comparing grizzly and black bears is like apple and oranges. they are two totally different animals. Black bear are normally quite docile and afraid of man. griz are totally unpredictable and not afraid of man. He respects man, but is not afraid of him. This is why so many grizzly attacks occur in parks. In a park they lose their respect. Then a 2 year old bear (comparable to a human teen) gets full of piss & vinegar and, well that camper looked like lunch to him. So far as making a big deal out of seeing one, it is a big deal. There are thousands of black to each grizzly. My fishing cabin in canada has blacks around it constantly. It's not at unusual to walk up with a couple of feet away, or to have them right at the front door looking in. Griz don't do that. Griz are also much more intelligent. I firmly believe that they able to reason things out. I've spend litterly hundred of hours hunting and watching griz in 3 canadian provs. & alaska & some of the things they do define reasoning. Not so with blacks.

WE are required to take a bear defense and awareness training every year. The videos are pretty educational. The trainer is a Forest service employee and has been attacked by both grizzly and black bears, and by grizzlys numerous times. We are taught that if a black bear is attacking, its intention is to eat you, if a grizzly attacks, it is some times a bluff, defending food, or off spring or all three. We are required to have bear sprey at all times when in bear country, and the forest service employee says that in his experience, bear spray is not effective on black bears. But that he prefers spray to a gun when dealing with grizzlys. No real experience from me other than we see both species, several times each summer, fall, and spring.

Grizzlies (and Brown's) are far more aggressive than Black Bears. The interesting thing is that in the case of attacks Blacks are far more likely to kill their victim. That's because Grizzlies are generally aggressive in protecting their territory. With Black Bears it is the odd bear that turns carnivorous. That's why the recomendation for a Grizzly attack is to play dead but with a Black it is to fight like hell. In either case I would prefer a firearm, bear spray, or small nuclear device as my first option.

Jeff

I've hunted/killed both and I'm more afraid of a 2-3yr old black bear than anything. Look at the news this year of all the bear attacks (and there has been more than normal this year in Canada) and the majority is from black bears. I would guess that bear spray works 75-80% of the time, even if I'm wrong and its 90-95% I would still not trust my life to it, I'll take my chances with my gun

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

1. Which do you all think poses the biggest threat to man when he is afield?

2. What is your opinion of Bear Spray and have you ever used it?

1.] The Black Bear due to the numbers. There are just more Black Bears around that Grizzly's. Also a fact that more people are killed by Black Bears than all other bears combined. Most people misjudge the Black Bear. They have seen all the Walt Disney movies that portray the Black Bear as a clown of the woods. they may have ever seen a few run away when they appeared BUT the bear that ran away from you today may just decide to have you for dinner tomorrow. Records are showing that more and more Black Bear attacks are proving to be predatory in nature. Black Bear populations are growing and as man encroaches on their territories more attacks are going to happen and with unfortunate results.

2.] Good for seasoning meat(the user). It has worked in some cases and failed miserably
in others. Bear pepper spray has been known to attract bears and at times turned a
curious bear into a raging monster. A Brown Bear that attacked a boy in Alaska had two
large cans of Bear Pepper spray emptied into it’s face at close range and did nothing to
detour the bear from it’s attack. If it hadn’t been for the courage of the counselors
throwing rocks and waving fire brands to run off the bear it could have ended up much
worse than it did. I am not betting my life or the lives of loved ones on a spray can of
seasoning. Lawdog

A mature Grizzly bear, in my opinion and aside from the Elephant, is the most powerful creature on earth. It can take a 1000-1500lb bovine and destroy it with one single swipe to the side of the head. I've seen the results.

A Black bear does not compare in both strength and attitude. Not even close. He's a timid creature by nature but will attack if conditions are right. Though I've never seen a single one act remotely aggressive.

I know, personally, of seven individuals who have been attacked by grizzlies. SEVEN! (Ironnically I've forgotten all of their names.) Luckily most of these individuals knew how to use a rifle and were packing one at the time of the attack. A couple managed to elude the bear on horseback with the aid of other mounted companions.

None of these bears will appear as a number in any statistic eigther.

Chuck

Hello;
in my humble opinion, the most dangerous bear, regardless of species, is the one who has been habituated to living around Man. Wild bears behaviour has a sort of predictability, but the bruin raiding garbage cans, or sitting at the side of the road, is totally unpredictable.
I remember,as a child, when it was still fashionable to go to the Banff dump, to see the bears. There was a German tourist there hand feeding a black bear. He kept raising the tid bit higher, trying trying to get the bear to stand on his hind legs. Sudenly the bear lost his temper, a paw flashed, and the stupid tourist dropped his snack just in the nick of time.
Grizz

I have seen them both here in Idaho and the one that I feer most,is the one after my ass.Once you have an encounter with a Bear,Large or small,Black or Brown,hump or no hump,how in the hell does it matter?

Either one will throw you around like a piece of paper with nothing you can do other than blast it if you can.

Some Blacks have a problem and are agressive and some Grizzlies do.I don't want to bet on either.

Jayco

quote:

Originally posted by Mauser96:
I would put the Grizzly as more dangerous.

As far as pepper spray, when in it's canned, CONCENTRATED form, it indeed works.

However, studies have shown that when it is sprayed on an object, and the potency dimishes shortly after, it actually acts as an attractant.

I used to work in forestry and every couple of years we had to take a bear awarness course-on the last one I took I remember there being documented cases of tourist spraying bear spray on there shoes to distract the bears if the bears came acroos their tracks. Worked GREAT..........as an attractent.

I am just glad so many of you are seeing grizzlies........


IV

Wow: I was not aware of 830# Blacks in NC. Must have been snaking on some good BBQ. Probably not to fear if you can walk or shuffle fast.

In PA in the last two years ,hunters have taken 4 black bears over 800#, the largest IIRC 868#.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
I see one of the people who posts here starting out nearly every post saying he "just saw a Grizzly" and has done so apparently every time he walks outside for a good number of years now. There are places I frequent where I could mention seeing a lot of Black Bears, but certainly don't see the need to mention it in EVERY post I make.

I know the Grizzly Bears do get to a very large size. Also know of a Black that was killed near Greenville, NC (Pitt County) that weighed in at 830 pounds.

I remember reading a lot of Grizzly Bear stories from about 40 of the past 50 years or so in the Gun Rags. Always the "close encounter" and the occasional bad results of someone turning into Bear food. Now there seems to be a lot of folks just out "walking around" in the Grizzly areas with nothing but bells on their feet or a can of Bear Spray.

Then along would come another story about more people being killed by Black Bears than Grizzly Bears, which seemed to "imply" they were certainly more of a threat to be around than the Grizzlies.
---

1. Which do you all think poses the biggest threat to man when he is afield?

2. What is your opinion of Bear Spray and have you ever used it?

1 = Grizzly

Please note that the 100-year record (in Alaska) comes up to a few years ago. Since then quite a few grizzly attacks on humans have occurred.

Data:
http://www.absc.usgs.gov/research/brownbears/attacks/bear-human_conflicts.htm

By the way, this is the only web site of its kind in the world, and was put together by Mr. Tom Smith, a biologist in Anchorage.

You will find a report on pepper spray, presented by Stephen Herrero, at the same web site. Just search for it at the "abs.usgs.gov/research"

First off, thanks to everyone who has contributed their experiences and thoughts to the thread. Very interesting and I do appreciate it. Look forward to anyone else with credible experience.

quote:

Originally posted by 10at6:
Wow: I was not aware of 830# Blacks in NC. Must have been snaking on some good BBQ. Probably not to fear if you can walk or shuffle fast.

Hey 10at6, I don't know any of the State Records, but I would suspect that one will be really close. I'd guess the largest I ever had to drag out of my own was 300#-350# but we didn't weigh them, so that is only a guess. Did have to help drag some that probably edged 450#.

Also remember something about the South Carolina state record was at one time held(as the story goes) by a VW Bug smashing into a Coastal Black as the kids were headed out to Myrtle Beach. I'm hesitant to mention the weight of it, because it varied from 550#-750# depending on who was telling the story. I'd suspect 550# would be closer to reality.

Concerning the 830#er, you really have me smiling with the mention of it "snacking on some good BBQ". The fellow that told me about it is someone who I do believe and don't doubt the weight he mentioned, though it did catch me w-a-y off guard too. Apparently that old Bear was in fact eating dead pigs. Back then we had some heavy rains for a couple of years plus a few Hurricanes come ripping through and the high water over a course of 4-5 years had killed a bunch of pigs. Plus normal occasional pigs dying in the fields. Lots of domestic pig farms on the Eastern side of North Carolina. As I was told, the BIG Bear was feasting where one of the farms would toss the dead pigs and cover them up. He would just uncover a pig or two and help himself.

So, you were REALLY close with the BBQ. It was just pre-cooked.

Someplace I read (recently) that loud (canned) air horns are effective in getting bears to back off. Anyone have any experience with them?

Because there are more of them I have run into black bear more often, but because they have not been so big the fear factor is not as great. Maybe it should be. Out in the bush, eating raspberries in an old burnover, it always makes you nervous to see lots of bear droppings with raspberry seeds in them. The rare time I have seen a grizzly it was nice and far away.

Polar bears are supposed to be the nastiest.

IMHO opinion the most dangerous one is the one chewing on your head. Respect them all!

465H&H

Dr. Smith that did the report(in 1999) [URL=http://www.absc.usgs.gov/research/brownbears/pepperspray/pepperspray.htm ]Bear Pepper Spray Report[/URL] on the USGS site was asked the following;

quote:

What additional advice do you suggest regarding bear pepper spray?

A: I generally recommend the following to people:

1. Always carry at least 2 deterrents at all times in bear country, one being pepper spray.

He went on to state that “the first one should be pepper spray and the second should be something like an air horn, signal flare, firearm....â€

A bear(don’t care whether it’s a Brown or Black) charges you from 40 yards away you have less than 4 seconds to decide what you are going to use. Do you really believe that you are going to have time to use your second means of defense?

Air horns have been proven time and time again not to work. Again just ask those counselors that saved that boy from the attacking Brown Bear. They emptied three air horns and two large bear pepper spray canisters at it without effect. For a signal flare to work you have got to hit the bear. Many records have shown where signal flares or throwing burning limbs had little effect except to make the bear move or even enrage it if it was hit.

Until his retirement(in 2001) for 12 years my brother in-law was one of the park rangers at Yellowstone Park. All of the above methods were tried on inquisitive/marauding bears with varying degrees of success. My Brother in-laws favorite means of carry when dealing with these bears was a rifle. Lawdog

Grizzlys are just plain mean, cantankerous SOB's that will kill you for the sport of it. BUT, at least you know where you stand with them. Most of the time you wont even know a Black bear is there, it is the one that you didnt know was there that is sizing you up like a plate of prime rib that makes them a threat.

If I were forced to make a choice to be mauled by one or the other, I would probably choose the black though, at least it is feasible to ward "some of them" off. Perhaps one of the reasons it is suggested to play dead with a Grizz is the fact that you are at their mercy either way, and as the Borg say, "resistance is futile".

Either way with either one, being in the wrong place at the wrong time is not a pleasant prospect and they both have my respect.

Pepper spray? Ill take the .44. But I would rather have pepper spray than a stick.

I just happened to be awake REAL early this morning and the TV happened to be on ABC as I was coming to. I believe they said some guy that had been spending time with the Grizzlies and recording it on film will be shown tonight on "Prime Time" or during prime time. Missed part of it but saw some fool walking around on his hands and knees as if he was on all fours very close to some extremely LARGE Bears in this ad for the show.

Is this the same idiot that got himself and his girlfriend eaten by the Grizzlies a year or so ago?

Probably. Theres a documentary coming out this week about the idiot.Grizzly Man by Werner Herzog. "the illusion that Treadwell was following-that he could become like a bear,that he could be accepted in the secret world of bears.But thats all new age ****! We are not going to enter their world. Eventually they feel threatened and they will fight you or they will feel hungry-and eat you" Living among the bears is not courage,thats some kind of a rediculous macho concept. Any idiot can do it". Doesn't sound real sympathetic does he?

I don't have squat to back it up but I bet the black bear is more likely to attack you and the grizzly is more likely to kill you if he attacks you.

Grizzly attacks make better press and the press sells sensationalism.

I've been "bluff charged" by a big 250 pound (give or take) black sow and I can tell you that she had absolutely no fear of me and was plenty big enough to tear my meat house down.

She had broken in a trailer in a campground full of hunters and was stealing food so we tracked her to a cypress swamp.

We weren't too bright because when she came out of that swamp she was REALLY pissed and was on top of us in the twinkling of an eye. I was the only one quick enough to get his rifle into position but couldn't get the scope on her before she put on the brakes.

She turned sideways to us and humped her back and every hair on her back was standing on end and she looked as big as a coastal brownie at that point.

She then slowly stalked back into the swamp and you could have knocked me over with a feather at that moment.

When the adrenaline rush took over I sat down on the ground and shook for a few minutes and despite the near freezing temps I was in a heavy sweat.

The most dangerous bear is the one that hasn't been hunted by humans and has no fear of them.

Florida hasn't allowed bear hunting for quite a few years now but they'll have to soon because the black bear population is getting very bold and bear encounters are becoming an every day event in parts of the state. Also the insurance companies are raising hell about the cars hitting them.

$bob$

Gentlemen,

I hate to give up too many of my secrets, but don't let a black bear fool you. They can be shy many times, can rear up on you when cubs are involved like any bear and will at times stalk you like you're its next meal.

They can get pretty big and are far bigger than most people know because they're not nearly as prized as the browns.

Follow the below link, look on page 10 under history in the section Physical Characteristics.
The largest black bear (weight) ever taken in the wild is officially entered at 880lbs from Carolina. I don't want to give up too many of my secrets, but they've been taken bigger than that. To the best of my knowledge, 962lbs is the biggest but it was decided to keep it unofficial to keep others away. It's pretty common too see and take big bears yearly. Many big ones taken w/out too much bragging.

My co-worker, who wanted no parts of these bears, stayed low hunting deer this past season. He kept hearing something behind him but when he looked, nothing was there. This repeated over and over until he looked back and sh*t in his pants. He got off one shot and killed this thing stalking him at point blank range. It was a black bear that took five people 4 days to get out. Unofficially it weighed 820lbs field dressed and will probably be in the top 5 or so. I think this bear was sizing him up as it had followed him for approx. 1/2 mile.

If a bear wants to eat you...it will if it can't be stopped. I think the brown bear that ate the couple and attempted to eat the others that followed until killed, only weighed 300lbs.

Gary

link:
http://www.dgif.state.va.us/hunting/va_game_wildlife/ma...lan%20_compiled_.pdf

Hey Ray and Gary, Thanks for the links. I finally got some time to look them over fairly careful and both are indeed interesting.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

1. Which do you all think poses the biggest threat to man when he is afield?

2. What is your opinion of Bear Spray and have you ever used it?

Hey Hot Core, both good questions, but I do not believe there are any real available statistics to quantify the probabilities in order to answer the first question as you have put it.

I believe it's all in the exact scenario the person afield happens to be in, and the personality of the bear he/she encounters. It's a crap shoot.

No different than rendering an opinion on what will kill a bear better, a 30 cal ultra magnum, or a 338 win mag.

My very limited experience with black bear hunting tells me that they are very different in terms of behavior. In Maine, if a bear even remotely detected my presence, it was history. In Alberta, they climb the tree to figure out what you are, regardless of the fact that you verbally LET THEM KNOW that the stand WAS OCCUPIED. New Brunswick bears react like Maine bears...sprint off the moment it detects you.

As for Griz...sorry, no experience.

My "bear sray" happens to weigh 180 grains and travels about 2750fps.

I have read many books on bears attacks and here is what i have learned. When in the presence of a black bear, if that bear does not show any fear, then it is using a prey profile and sizing you up to eat you. As someone here said that some blacks will turn carnivorous is a falacy, ALL bears are omnivores, and oportunist, they will eat meat whenever the chance arises.

Brown or grizzlies many times attack because of your blundering onto a kill site, or their cubs, but will often break away from the attack and are less likely to kill you for food. As far as browns being smarter, there are way more blacks in many more states so they must be doing something right.

Pound for pound cats are stronger and quicker than bears, and they are true carnivores that must kill to eat, so they are also better hunters.

As someone here has said, the most dangerous bear is the one that is sizing you up for its next meal. Any bear,black or brown, can easily kill a man, so dont be fooled by how some bears act, all it takes is that one bad one to kill you for dinner.

Someone here also mentioned Stephen Herreto, but his teachings were very dangerous for many years. He is said to be the premier bear expert, but his thinking was very flawed. He used to teach that you should play dead whenever any bear was attacking, man was he wrong. If a blackie is attacking do any, and everything to thwart the attack. Pick up branches to club with, throw rocks, yell, make yourself a tough dinner to obtain.When blacks attack they only want one thing, you for dinner. With browns if you have the opportunity, climb a tree, get away from the bear( i know easier said than done) but when all else fails you have to play dead. Many times a brownie is attacking to protect a kill or cubs so it just wants to hurt you but not necessarily kill and eat you.

I would say that in all probability blacks are more dangerous because there are more of them and they are in many more states. I live in N.J. and there was just an attack on a camper, the bear bite into his thigh, but the guy screamed and yelled the bear away.Also last year a 705lb black bear was killed by a mini-van, thats the state record.There have also been over 700 reports on bear mischief,ranging from house break ins to raids on bird feeders and the like.Another thing is that contrary to popular belief its the wilderness blacks that are most dangerous because they dont know what man is, there is no threat, habituated bears know that they can get a free meal from a garbage can or bird feeder and do not associate man as food. In the wilderness anything that cant run away quick enough is food, remember, above all else bears are oportunist and will take advantage of that if they can.

If you guy want to read a really good book on bears attacks pick up "Bear Attacks, The deadly truth" by James Gary Shelton. He teaches bear safety course for government workers in British Columbia, Canada. And it has many true accounts of bear attacks. Until i read this book i didnt realize how deadly black bears could be.

I guess I never addressed the "bear spray" issue. If I thought I might have time to try it and then go to plan B if it failed I'd probably carry the stuff... BUT!!!...

The only bear that ever charged me came so fast that I didn't even have time to get the rifle crosshairs on it and I've shot a LOT of running deer, rabbits, squirrels etc.

I wouldn't have even had a slim chance to "try bear spray" or use a handgun either.

IMO a rifle is by far the quickest and most sure bear prevention tool and you'd better be damned quick and damned good with it and you'd better be delivering a pretty big bullet that's going pretty fast and placed in the right place.

If not... Be sure you don't have a front sight on that rifle because it's really gonna hurt when the bear......

$bob$

quote:

Originally posted by LDHunter:
...The only bear that ever charged me came so fast that I didn't even have time to get the rifle crosshairs on it and I've shot a LOT of running deer, rabbits, squirrels etc.

LD, LD, LD... NO, NO, NO... after the "and" is supposed to be the rest of the Bear story.

So, "The only bear that ever charged me(LD) came so fast that I didn't even have time to get the rifle crosshairs on it and...

was the Swamp Sow previously mentioned?
---

Don't be pulling that half-a-Bear-Tale stuff on us, did it chew you in half or what?!?!?!

Hello;
I think you are over simplifing Herrero. He only claims, and not very strongly, that under certain circumstances, it may be advisable to play dead, such as when the bear has perceived you as a threat to it or cubs. Let's face it, there are only two options here, play dead or fight, cause you ain't gonna outrun the bear. If the bear is thinking of you as dinner, there is only one option.
Obviously, a lot has been learned since Herrero wrote his book, but there is still no cut and dry set of rules as what one should do. I've always had an admiration for the man who was willing to tackle this issue and in an era of tree huggers was willing to deal realistically with the subject and is willing to admit that sometimes an application of lead is called for, but only if you have the skill to do it right. His main point is that avoidance is the best way of dealing with bear encounters. Herrero dangerous? Only if you don't understand the subject.
Grizz

quote:

Someone here also mentioned Stephen Herreto, but his teachings were very dangerous for many years. He is said to be the premier bear expert, but his thinking was very flawed. He used to teach that you should play dead whenever any bear was attacking, man was he wrong. If a blackie is attacking do any, and everything to thwart the attack. Pick up branches to club with, throw rocks, yell, make yourself a tough dinner to obtain.When blacks attack they only want one thing, you for dinner. With browns if you have the opportunity, climb a tree, get away from the bear( i know easier said than done) but when all else fails you have to play dead. Many times a brownie is attacking to protect a kill or cubs so it just wants to hurt you but not necessarily kill and eat you.

According the Stephen Herrero, any bear can turn predacious during an attack. He also says that one has a better chance to survive a grizzly that has attacked you if you play dead, but not so with black bears. He advises fighting back black bears in all instances. He has also explained the "human habituated" grizzlies (dumpsters bears, for example) can be very dangerous because they have associated trash and other human stuff with food, and have lost their fear of humans. He also cites several examples of grizzly bears killing humans near landfills or dumpsters. We have had such cases in Alaska.

Perhaps in the lower-48 black bears are more dangerous than in Alaska, but up here, even though we have more black bears than grizzlies, the later is more dangerous.

Just go to the link of the USGS I posted before. Look at the first page, and you will notice colored dots. See which colored dots match bear species, and keep in mind that the data on bear attacks and killing of humans dates back at least five years. In the past five years we have had quite a few people killed by grizzlies, and none by black bears.

Here it's again:
http://www.absc.usgs.gov/research/brownbears/attacks/bear-human_conflicts.htm

I can't tell anyone much about Grizzly. I have never been in an area where they live.

I am going to go out on a limb and say that I belive that overall the BLACK BEAR IS MORE DANGEROUS.

Why?? Because people have infested the parts of the world that the Black bear lives. In comparison the human population density is much lower in the grizzly habitat. There are a lot more black bears than Grizzly overall. So therefore you are much more likley to be attacked by a black bear than a grizzly.

THAT BEING SAID let me add that you have a very good chance of surviving a black bear attack, where as a grizzly attack usually proves fatal.

I look upon it like the DEADLIEST SNAKE debate. The cold fact is the deadliest snake in the world is the inland taipan of Australia.
HOWEVER it is a b.s. moot point. The range of the inland taipan is so remote and so few people live there that I believe there have only been 2 recorded deaths EVER by the snake.
Where as the American rattlesnake which is much less poisoness inhabits much of the US and is responsible for dozzens of deaths a year. Likewise if bitten by a rattler you stand a very good chance of surviving where as the taipan will have you dead before you know it.

As far as pepperspray. I work in law enforcement. I have seen PEOPLE that the stuff did next to nothing to!!!! It only makes my eyes burn and hard to see, if I am sprayed with it if I can find you I could still kill you and I am not half as tough as your average bear.
I know personally of a bow hunter who was in a treestand last year in Quebec. A mom and cub came by, he did not want to shoot her, but took a picture. When he did the cub spooked at the noise of the camera and ran up a tree right next to his stand. The mam saw him and got pissed, she started to come up his tree !!!!
He had to spray her 3 times!!! Each time she got close he sprayed and she would fall off only to try again. She eventually quit and he stayed in the tree scarred shitless untill the Canadian guide came to pick him up that night!

I will say that the bells on the feet makes sence. I have never seen a bear when I made noise or walked in the woods with the wind at my back. If you want to avoid bears, I would consider them for a child. I don't use it for 2 reasons;

1 I am not a tree hugger and cary a gun in the woods and will use it if needed.

2 Tree hugger or not what is the point of walking in the woods if you scare all the animals away before you can see them. You might as well stay at home and walk on a treadmill while watching National Geographic!!!

Just my 2 c

quote:

Originally posted by Nor'wester:
Probably. Theres a documentary coming out this week about the idiot.Grizzly Man by Werner Herzog. "the illusion that Treadwell was following-that he could become like a bear,that he could be accepted in the secret world of bears.But thats all new age ****! We are not going to enter their world. Eventually they feel threatened and they will fight you or they will feel hungry-and eat you" Living among the bears is not courage,thats some kind of a rediculous macho concept. Any idiot can do it". Doesn't sound real sympathetic does he?

Hey Nor'wester, That was it. The fool treadwell got both himself and his girlfriend re-cycled into Bear food.

Looking at it from a totally different viewpoint, what was shown "made it appear" that it was relatively easy to walk up on a Brown and the Bear remain, without running off. Now of course, I realize any Browns "moving away" would not have been of interest in that worthless film, so they probably just got cut out of the tape.

But..., the ones that did not run off support the data provided in the "link" that Ray provided.

quote:

Don't be pulling that half-a-Bear-Tale stuff on us, did it chew you in half or what?!?!?!

hotcore,

Well I'd like to keep you in suspenders but reading up the thread will tell you the rest of the story... (I think)...

CRS is moving into the more advanced stage... CRAFT...

Anyway... If I didn't tell it on this particular thread she put on the brakes and skidded up to about 25ft or so. She was so close that she showered our feet with sand as she skidded.

She stalked away and we just stood there dumfounded and a bit afraid. (GROSS UNDERSTATEMENT).

I learned my lesson that day. It's almost impossible to shoot an animal that is coming straight at you and that runs as low as a charging bear.

She came so fast it was hard to believe. Everything was running in slow motion for me yet I can remember, besides the fear, being amazed that she could move so incredibly fast.

I'm unscathed from the incident but a bit wiser and maybe I advanced a few years in age that foggy, cool, morning.

The rifle in my hands was a Remington 660 in 350 Rem Mag and it felt like a toothpick and I was sure I'd only have one chance. For the first time in my life I had doubts about my ability to make a very important shot.

I also was driven by an all consuming fear of killing that bear and having to explain how I came to be there and why I killed her in self defense while all the time I'd tracked her to that swamp and really didn't have any business doing that since we weren't allowed to hunt or kill bears.

It was a pretty dang stupid thing I did but also a cheap and potentially very valuable lesson learned.

$bob$

Hey LD, Great story that I can relate to with even smaller, less dangerous(make that usually not dangerous at all) animals.

I have had a few Black Bears spot me and come directly toward me, but fortunately none of them were in the wide-open charge mode. And I was actually hunting them at the time.

Was that a Florida Bear?

Yeah... She was big for a Florida sow and we saw tracks of cubs but we were invincible and we had powerful rifles... Right?

I'm guessing she was about 250-300 pounds but at that time we were sure she would have gone 400-500 pounds.

I have big hands and I couldn't nearly cover her front paw prints and my 10 1/2" hunting boots weren't as long as her rear feet.

She was a BIG girl and she was brazen enough to enter a hunt camp with approximately 50 hunters and break in an occupied travel trailer to steal food.

$bob$

$bob$

Which bear is the most dangerous? The one coming after you at that instant in time!!!!!!!!!!!

Extensive reading has shown the pattern that the grizz is far more agressive than the brown bear. Black bears are usually at the bottom of the totem pole.

That being said, the most dangerous bear would be a sow of any type that feels her cubs are in danger, especially if you just happen to be unfortuante enough to be between her and them.