To add to VarmintGuy's post in this forum, now the MT Dept of Livestock is seeing how many bison it takes to break through the ice! See the link to the story below. Now not only are they not letting hunters shoot the bison @ $500 a pop, they are creating a media circus that the enviros will use again and again. They now have 300 bison rounded up for "slaughter". The lunacy never ends in this state.
BILLINGS GAZETTE STORY

Jeez what a bunch of idiots, some people just need to be castrated.

Perfect youth hunt oppurtunity . You cant tell me that there ar'nt families that could'nt use the meat to winter on , without costing FW&P the price of slaugter and roundup . Hunting is being overlooked and yet it's one of the simplest answers . Better yet make it a mother- daughter hunt , just like the lioness of Africa .

Montana has a problem with being over run with new residents. they have take all the common sense out of their Game and Fish dept.

Elkman, that has nothing to do with it. Montana rely's HEAVILY on national and internatinoal tourist dollars. Mishandling this (as a lot of tourists see it) can damage MT's image as a destination spot. Of course it's stupid but there it is...

Leave it to the Montana Department of Livestock to screw this whole deal up...they have been the spearhead on this madness for over 10 years. First it was the gunning by DOL agents, then the round up and slaughter...just when the MT FW&P finally gets a bison hunt going, they have to get their dirty little fingers involved and screw it up!

This whole mess is courtesy of the Montana Department of Livestock!! Why not let them just run the entire wildlfie program in MT and see how bad they can screw it up!!

MG

The problem as I understand it is that the MDL is forced by either federal or interstate regulation to take draconian measures to protect the states "brucellosis free" statis. If a cow in Ennis tests positive for brucellosis then all the cattle in the whole state, even a herd north of Plentywood would be subject to quarantine. How stupid is that? Also, why the hell doesn't anyone do a study to figure out if buffalo would/ could actually pass the disease to cattle?

Since I live here at the epicenter of this stupidity I am loosing patience very quickly with all involved.

A few of us here may recall back years ago when they DID have the FWP sponsored Bison hunts. My local Warden was one of the Wardens who assisted with those hunts. It was a mess.

Whoever came up with the $500 each idea; You are not going to find as many MT Hunters as you think who have five hundred dollars to afford a hunt.
Then how many people will be able to CLEANLY kill a bull? The initial hunts had kids showing up with .243's !! How do You think the media will handle a hunter who doesn't place his rds properly and requires multiple shots to kill the animal?? That footage will be shown for many years.
When the bison is down how many people are set up to handle an animal larger than a beef cow?? Very few. It was mentioned earlier that these "hunts" would provide jobs for locals dragging and processing the carcasses. Ever tried to hire anyone in rural Montana to do hard labor??? I have. And there are very few takers. Lets say You DO find people to drag and assisit with process and transport. Even more cost to a hunt most people out here can't afford already.

As stated earlier; I'm happy the Livestock people are handling this. I hope they do Kill 300 bison.....then let them be blamed for it not hunters.

It's very convenient to oversimplify any problem. Be it wolves, or bison. This is a very complex issue with all sorts of players. From the FWP,to local Ranchers up to the Fed's and Park Service.

One of the few good ideas here is to research this problem to determine if bison CAN pass on brucelosis to Cattle.

FN in MT

Very good post, FN. Most of the folks have got the killin' idea down pat but nothing beyond that.
And VG's input is like most of his input.

I wonder if the bunny huggers that are advocating " more tolerance" for the bison leaving Yellowstone, live anywhere near Yellowstone?

Jwbeezman: How are they handling the Bison problem there in good ole Wes' Virginny?
Got none!
I see!
Well if you reread YOUR POST you have no suggestion, no experience or input of ANY quality!
I lump you right in there with FN in Montana nothing but negativity regarding other Hunters.
Add something or stew in your own negativity.
Sheesh boy you are loosin it!
I know one rancher in far NW Montana that sells over 100 Buffalo "Hunts" each year!
And my point, is, rather than the wasted money from the various governmental agencies regarding the Bison why not let the Montana Fish and Game folks sell permits for the Hunt? The Fish and Game people get paid already and the money from the sale of the Bison Permits could go into a fund for - well for whatever!
I had three Germans stay with me this past late summer and they came all the way from Germany to fish and see Montana, Wyoming and Idaho! They spent money - like WATER! They rented a $600.00 per week Ford Excursion! They were here for 6 weeks! The reason the vehicle was SO expensive is because they had to pay over three times what U.S. residents pay for insurance on rentals! So the insurance company made some EXTRA moola off of my guests!
These folks would have come to the U.S. for their extended vacation whether or not there was a Bison Hunt in Montana! They want to come back this fall - again! But maybe FN in Montana will somehow notify them that some animals were killed here and that might push them over the edge - so to speak! And then they would opt for say Africa! Not a chance!
They went OUT OF THEIR WAY to find a restaraunt that served Buffalo! They ate it, and they LOVED it. And then they bought some Buffalo meat when I informed them that it is for sale in some stores! They barbecued each day on their car touring for lunch AND for dinner! They ate breakfasts at restaurants!
To bad about YOUR negativity there jwzbeeman. It cripples you!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

quote:

Originally posted by FN in Montana:

Whoever came up with the $500 each idea; You are not going to find as many MT Hunters as you think who have five hundred dollars to afford a hunt.

I would pay it... (I am in ID, however....)

Seriously, start a poll-- I GUARANTEE you will find many folk willing to pay a flat $500 to go to Montana and kill a buffaloe.

You do have a good point about the media coverage-- that would be a tricky scenario-- but one I believe is worth fighting and can be won.....

IV

Heck FN, we hunt wild bison here in WY, and the license costs residents $331. The list is usually well over 1600 individuals just for the bull tags...there is also another cow draw.

We have a minimum caliber regulation in place, to make sure the animals are humanely harvested. The hunters are also provided a lot of information from the game & fish folks with regards to shot placement, telling cows from bulls (yearling bulls and cows can be quite similar), and a map with some locations where folks usually find bison. I have been on several of these hunts, and have stood over several dead bison. Yea, killing a bison presents a new challenge with getting the hide and meat off the carcass, but with enough help and knives it can be done. Heck, indians used to butcher the darn thing with sharp rocks!!

We had a great time and saw no "protests" or media interfering with our hunt. This hunt was in Jackson mind you, greenie capitol of the world.

We also have an "hunter harassment" law in place. Any buffalo field campaigners or PETA folks get in the way of the legal bison hunters and they get whacked by the game wardens. Maybe that is why bison hunting really isn't a big deal in WY anymore for the anti's...their sights are set in MT.


MG

Lots of people pay a lot more to hunt a lot less.

VG, if you check my post about the only time I display any negativity is toward blowhards like you. You can talk more and say less than anyone in here.

Varmint Guy,

My outlook on Montana hunters comes from 20+ years as an Ex Officio Warden. As a Highway Patrol Trooper we have Warden powers to write F&G violations. The area I work sees a lot of hunting activity as we have very good populations of deer and especially elk.
I feel that the AVERAGE hunter is only borderline competant. How many do we see cruising the roads in their trucks? Ever notice how few hunters will actually take even a short hike? Shooting skills are marginal. Ever visited a public range the week before hunting season? How few really accurate shooters do You see? Not many.

From there we move DOWN in degrees to the truly incompetant. Remember the guy who shot the Llama a few years ago and thought it was an ELK? Ever seen the guys shooting out of their trucks onto private property at game at long range? We see it here all the time.

Then as we move UP above the AVERAGE hunter and we come to the knowledgable, competant hunters. The hunters who know the game and can place those tough shots all the time.

I see far more incompetant, slob hunters than I do the above average hunters. My tone may seem negative and I'm sure it does if the only hunters/shooters You associate with are the competant or above average hunters. I'd hazard to say that the average guy who visits these forums is a VERY above average shooter and hunter. We take the sport seriously, do our homework and hone our skills. Otherwise we wouldn't bother to check in or post here. The average hunter takes a much more cavalier attitude.

I posted that using hunters to kill the bison that wander out would be a media nightmare for ALL hunters. I stand by that. Unless FWP could closely screen who does the hunting it has the definite possibiility to be very damaging to all hunters. I went to a few of the bison hunts back in the mid eighties as a friend had a permit. The ineptitiude I witnessed then colors my feeling about the hunt today. Let the Livestock Division be the bad guys, not hunters.

I'm not going to argue back and forth with You. You seem to have a lot of time to type. I do not.

FN in MT

Thought I would put in my two cents.

VarmintGuy,

Most of the buffalo ranch hunts are on ranches (Go Figure??), but the ranch owner has all the equipment needed to process the buffalo haul it out etc. Plus most places you can shoot a buffalo on private land can be accessed pretty easy. The owner sells over a 100 hunts to his ranch because he helps them out I bet.

If you shoot a buffalo on public land where these buffalo are you run into things such as.
Is it vechicle accessible?
How many people do you need to skin, quarter and butcher it????
How many people to transport it????

Shooting a Buffalo is Easy.....Transporting it is the hard part.

I would pay money to shoot a buffalo but you have to consider other things.

Do you really want to hunt with 20 protesters following you around with video cameras stuck in your face????

What happens if you wound one?????

I would really like to shoot one of the Bison. If I could get a tag, I would sure put a post up for free Bison Meat on the Forum to anyone who helps with the hunt. The people on these boards are great and I would probably get a lot of help.

Can most people get this amount of help???

Sierra,

If there is snow on the ground, two guys can skin, quarter and transport a mature bull out of just about anywhere (add a third guy and the job is a WHOLE LOT easier). A couple of 250cc snowmachines and skimmers really makes the job relatively painless. Figure a long afternoon of skinning and quartering and another couple of days to get it out depending how far into the middle of nowhere you happen to be.

Best,

John

FN,

Those are some good points I hadn't considered when I read the initial post.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnTheGreek:
Sierra,

If there is snow on the ground, two guys can skin, quarter and transport a mature bull out of just about anywhere (add a third guy and the job is a WHOLE LOT easier). A couple of 250cc snowmachines and skimmers really makes the job relatively painless. Figure a long afternoon of skinning and quartering and another couple of days to get it out depending how far into the middle of nowhere you happen to be.

Best,

John

What happens if snowmachines are not allowed??
We used snowmobiles for cat hunting and it made it a lot easier, UNTIL we hit the wilderness line. Then the snowshoeing began. I am just wondering what you do when snowmobiles aren't allowed.

If you shoot one up a hill, you could put it on a kids sled and ride it down. That could be a whole new sport!!!!!!

Sierra,

Simple solution.....bush plane! Seriously, absent snowmobiles or quads, one may have a serious problem. At that point, I think you would have hook a harness up to yourself and pull those quarters out one at a time on a skimmer. You damn sure can't pack them out on your back! While my legs are burning just thinking about it, I think it could be done. In the Yukon a couple weeks ago, the three of us were wondering if anyone had gone into the area and hunted on cross country skis. Maybe my next hunt will be ski in / snowshoe out. Talk about earning your trophy!

Best,

John