Yikes! Just in time for early Hunting seasons here in the west several states break out in rampant wildfires!
I heard on the radio this morning there are 38 wildfires in Idaho alone!
I got up at 0400 hours yesterday morning to depart on a combination Moose scouting/Varmint Hunting/fishing trip. The air was thick and blue! Visibility in many places was 1/3 mile!
Once into the high country above 8,000' and with more wind the air once again became somewhat pleasant to breathe!
All 3 of us had minor symptoms from the smoke. Everything from insomnia, headaches, eye problems, nausea, runny noses to lack of appetite troubled us.
Then at mid-day we had the horrific experience of seeing a huge rangefire start up to the east of our scouting locale! It turns out this fire went from 6,700 acres at sundown yesterday to 12,000+ acres at sunrise today! This fire unfortunately is burning in excellent Elk, Antelope and Mule Deer country!
As are, I am sure most fires in the west!
The obvious concern is for rain to fall soon and in huge amounts!
Only once since I moved to Montana 9 years ago have the Forest Service and BLM folks closed the Hunting down! That closure held for nearly 2 weeks through about September 28 if I recall correctly.
Anyway to folks that are coming out west for the early fall Bear, Grouse, Elk, Deer and other Hunting seasons it may pay off to keep a close eye on the fire situation in your areas and road closures in the areas you may be travelling to and through.
I will attempt to post a link to the forest fire web site.
Pray for rain!

http://forestry.about.com/library/weekly/aa071403a.htm

Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

That sucks!!!!!!!!!!! Thank God nothing in our area, yet!

We had visibility down to less than a mile all day here. It was like fog. I think we have had active fires burning since June. The Little Venus fire, which is still burning, was almost out on the 4th of July, and the Forest service decided to do the famous "Let it burn" and some good ol Wyoming winds came up and took it out of control, last I heard it was 30,000 acres. The G&F was giving money back on sheep tags and will reissue them next year because of the area burned.

Wyoming won't have any wildlife next year if we get a hard winter . I have a antelope tag for the first time in eight years and a limited elk permit, I might sit this year out just because of the drought. But our great Game and fish keep selling doe/fawn licenses. Come on rain.

Can't see the Winds, only twenty three miles away due to the smoke.

Steve

This wildfire near Dillon (SW Montana) is so out of control that buildings are now being destroyed and the ranchers in the area have had to open all gates and let their cattle herds fend for themselves!
The conditions here are SO dangerous that they have as yet not let any firefighters work to contain this fire!!!
One ranch now in the path of this fire has HUGE herds of Whitetailed Deer, Antelope and Mule Deer on it!
From one spot one morning during the Big Game Season two falls ago, I counted over 1,100 Game Animals on this one ranch alone! The owners only allowed limited doe Hunting there and a handful of big dollar Buck Hunts!
It looks like there will be a change in the situation there this year!
The Forest Service (Road Closing Service!) in our town may not have had anything to do with the causes of this range fire (it has consumed thousands of acres of Fedral land and some forest service land so far and its still 0.0% contained). But they have had now nearly two decades of poor performance, poor decison making, poor policies, ineptness and anti timber industry goals - so much so that NO ONE respects them here!
No one!
For instance we have HUGE areas of our forests here in which ALL the trees are dead and dying from drought and the resulting Beetle infestations! This has been going on for more than 4 years now. Instead of allowing the dead but standing and useable timber to be harvested and thus fight the Beetle infestations they refuse and just let the Beetles overwhelm everything! Also no income for this Federal agency! In other words the taxpayer is further bearing the burden financially of this poor decision!
I shake my head!
Again I urge ALL Hunters that may be travelling to the west this fall to get their ducks in a row prior to the last minute. Maybe look into and have an alternate destination (in the state you will be Hunting) that is not being threatened by fire or road closures etc.
It looks bleak here for the September 02, 2,006 Archery Deer & Elk opener.
Dittoes for the September 1st, 2,006 Grouse and the September 15th Fall Bear openers!
Yikes!
Pray for rain!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VG-I was planning a trip this weekend down to the Lima area to do some hiking and scouting.

I am al packed sandwhiches and all.

Do you think it would be a good idea to not go this weekend?

I am a bit concerned about visibility and other conditions.

Many thanks

Mark D

Mark Dobrenski: If you are going to be above 6,800 feet the smoke should be clear enough to scout. The cool temps and the wind exactly "reversing" itself last night pushed the fire near Clark Canyon back on itself and the folks now have it 20% contained!
With the cooler temps and the moon in the phase it is I think I would go on the scouting trip and be there early!
The visibility today is 6 or 8 miles and my eyes have quit "bleeding"!
Things are looking better today (Friday) for sure up north of Lima anyway.
I have lots of friends down that way I can call if you need that done.
I am going to do the Hunters Rendevous in Ennis on Saturday and then go Elk/Bear/Moose scouting/Varminting/fishing on Sunday - thats as it stands now anyway.
Good luck to ya and drive careful!
Interstate 15 was closed late yesterday near Clark Canyon Dam for a few hours due to no visibility (smoke!).
Its open now.
Call me at 406-683-6888 (H) or 206-200-3791 (C) at the last minute if need be for a conditions update! I am leaving Dillon for Ennis at 0700 hours Saturday.
Again good luck on the scout if you decide to go.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
Mark: Update just now - my friend in Dell (9 miles north of Lima) just called and he says the smoke is "thinner" today than yesterday by 50%.
He is going Elk scouting this weekend himself.
More later

Steve,

In your post, you clearly explained exactly WHY doe/fawn tags are and should be sold. A rough winter in Wyoming WILL be very ugly on wildlife populations, due to drought, and thus little habitat/forage. Sounds like a good reason to shoot does to me. Same reason ranchers are selling cattle again. I'd rather see a bunch of does get harvested (and I'm going to do my part) than see them die in a bad winter.

VG
I too am headed to the Hunters Rendevous on Saturday. If I knew how to indetify you I would say hello.
Russ

I was gonna work at the Rendevous but had a elk scout trip planned, the little lady and I have only had a one other weekend off together this summer so I had to tell the boyz that I was gonna pass.

Would of been fun to work it but I am gonna have fun in the mtns.

VG-thanks for the info and they have a rifle I believe I am gonna get. If you get time take a look at it and let me know what you think.

It is the new Wby Vanguard "Varmint Special", it has a semi heavy tube (.740 at the mzl) a tan colored stock and the cal I am looking at is 22/250. I need/want another lope/yote and pd rifle.

If you can spy it let me know what you think.

I'll be on the road early in the morn, not sure what time I'll be thru Dillon.

Thx

Mark D

VG-one other quick thing, over on 24 hourcampfire there is a 722/222 4 sale if you know of anyone interested in such a rig.

later

Mark D

VarmintGuy, I am coming to your fine state on Sep 7th to bow hunt elk in the Gravelies. Are there fires in that mountain range? Thanks

I sure hope you boys over in Montana and Wyoming get some rain then..

We have been lucky this year, knock on wood..

but remember, a couple of years ago, we had the Biscuit fire that burned 550,000 acres....

it got out of hand, because courtesy of Save the Planet Al Gore et al.. had closed off a ton of forest service roads and they had washed away in large sections with rain the previous couple of winters...

as Dale brings up... what the hell is it with the forest service.. they run around here with their pants on fire all the time, being like Chicken Little over " fire season, fire season"... then a fire starts and they have this " let it burn concept"... or are you confusing that with the BLM?

ONe has one point of view and the other has the exact opposite, because one is under the Dept of the Interior ( BLM) and the Forest Service is under the Dept of Agriculture....

and like the Biscuit fire over here in Oregon.. their holdings look like a checker board.. and one wants to let it all burn while the other wants access to try and put it out....

then we had to have the national guard, guarding all of the road entrances for all of the protestors who were going out and sabotaging fire fighting equipment and vehicles...


and you are right about the Forest Service.. they ought to change their name to the Road Closing Service...that is about all they do, besides have a lot of coffee breaks, freak out about " fire season" so they can do nothing when it happens, and give a place where tree huggers can get a job and work for the government since most couldn't hold a job in the real world...

oh and lets not forget driving around and abusing $40 to 50 K SUVs and 4 x 4s picking up trash at camp sites, all on the tax payers expenses...

Thursday morning we had a fire start NW of here, in a little over an hour it burned 6000ac and was headed our way with a 40mph wind. it hit 2 fallow fields and put it's self our, The county pulled their crews from out in front of it because it was moving so fast..I'm heading to the Hoback area next Friday, bow hunting for elk and it is burning over there too!

It is funny to hear about all the complaining about these fires...doesn't anyone realize that this is mother nature's way of cleaning house? Truth be known, much of the big game habitat will benefit in the long run from these fires, even in as short amount of time as this fall.

Heck, if you look at the historical fire regime for the west, an average of 23 million acres used to burn yearly, compared to only about 4-5 million now. Our interupption with fire suppression has actually put much of the west at a higher risk of catastrophic fires due to an increase in the amount of fuel in many areas. Fires that would normally just be a ground fire, have the capacity to crown out and burn hotter, thus killing the micro-organisms in the soil and in turn sterilizing the forest.

My understanding with the Venus fire, is that it is doing that sheep country a LOT of good. Better sheep hunting in the future!

Steve, your logic seems a little backwards. If habitat conditions are so poor, why try to maintain large herd numbers when there isn't enough food to support them???

MG

Good fire = Good grass. Short term this is not good for ungulate numbers but in the long run you will see an increase in deer and Elk. Look what happened in Yellowstone.

LBGuy: I went on an absolutely AMAZING Whitetail Deer, RIFLE (!) Hunt tonight here in SW Montana!
We could see the Gravellies from our ground blind. We also saw 55 Whitetail Bucks within Rifle range of my lucky assed partner (who gets all the good tags!).
He has 6 more days to knock off the monster Whitetail he has seen in this area! Then his tag is no longer valid.
He is gonna hit it real hard from now til then.
There was no smoke in the Gravellies at all and no fires that I know of have been thereabouts at all this summer.
And, oh by the way, night before last the wind turned 180 degrees on the Clark Canyon fire (near my home) and blew the fire back on itself! Then the rains came and dumped on the fire and its out.
Prayers helped - I am sure.
I am guessing about 15 to 20,000 acres burnt there! But all good game country and its done for this year!
Even in the dryest of years I have as yet to see a "skinny" summer/fall Elk!
They can and WILL get their bellies full one way or another, drought or no drought! Fire induced thick grass or NO fire induced thick grass!
The Elk herds everywhere in Montana are increasing (except where the Wolf predation is heaviest!) and have been for many decades!
My big bull Elk from year before last was killt out of a herd of over 200 Elk with 17 Bulls that I could see were in that herd. I watched those animals mill about in front of me for 15 minutes and I never saw a rib bone!
Not one!
The drought that year was rated at the highest rating the government has for drought "Profound Drought" - and it had beset the area that Bull was killt in for several years - and he was as fat as a Pig!
Elk are smart enough and have the intensity to fill their bellies every day! The only thing that would keep an Elk hungry would be DEEP snow! And eastern, western and south western Montana has not had deep snow in 9 winters now!
Last winter here in SW Montana we barely got to "normal" snow depths for the whole winter!
And of course the deepest snows when they DO come are usually well after the Big Game seasons close here!
You folks are MISSING my point completely on my fire warnings!
You see, I have been, DEPRIVED of being able to Hunt in Montana (on more than one occassion) due to FIRES and hazardous fire conditions!
Sure - hell yes - fires are an important part of the natural cycle of renewal. But there are 10 other months of the year and the fires are welcome then!
Just not DURING the Hunting season - please.
Wish us luck tomorrow on the BIG "velvety" Whitetail Buck Hunt. After them again at O-dark-thirty!
I would have shot at least two of the several big 10 pointers we saw tonight if that tag had been mine - but my "main man" is holding out for the "bruiser" he has been scouting recently.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

ElCabalero: Maybe I am missing your point! Its HARD to find an Elk in Yellowstone these days! Admittedly its due to over-predation by Wolves and some other predators but there is plenty of grass there - just no ELK!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

ELKMAN2: Best of luck on your Hunt! I hope you can skirt around the fire areas and remain safe. Those fires travel amazingly fast and they don't have to stop and "catch their breath" - ever!
Be safe!
My wife and I stayed up for several hours watching the trees "explode" with our binoculars here in the Clark Canyon fire. She had never seen this phenomenon!
She was impressed and she was frightened by the ceaselessness of the burning.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Mr Hawg

I could'nt agree with you more. I should have made my point clearer. In ares around my house the Game and Fish use to sell 1200 permits in one area, now thet have cut back to 125 tags but they keep giving out doe/fawn tags. Seems to me the population is already down.
You're harvesting does will cut down winter kill plus helps the over all herds heath, but only in area that have plenty of speed goats.
Antelope herds are doing better in the eastern part of the state. The west herds are doing as well.

Steve

Come on Rain!!!

quote:

Originally posted by VarmintGuy:
ElCabalero: Maybe I am missing your point! Its HARD to find an Elk in Yellowstone these days! Admittedly its due to over-predation by Wolves and some other predators but there is plenty of grass there - just no ELK!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

My mistake must have been bison. Or posisbly I am just misinformed. I do know this. Fire is good for grass. Grazers and browsers need grass. Also the west's forrests are not healthy. Fire can help with this. It will certianly not be quick I will grant you that. Nature is not proactive and when it gets out of balance it takes years to decades to come back around.

Sorry for the mistatement. I was working from a poor memory of an old news report.

Well I do declare!
Brought to bag today by my main man and go to Hunting partner was a 5x5 DANDY Whitetail Buck! It had a total of 12 points and my partner and I skinned this beautiful Buck and then he caped the 4 1/2 year old (at least!) Whitetail for the Taxidermist!
One shot from my partners 25/06 (200 yards with factory Remington 120 grainers - he uses this Rifle for Elk as well!) and the big Buck was brought home with us!
I am soon going to find out how good August venison tastes!
My partner estimates his Buck at 150 to 155 B&C points. We were in a hurry to get the creature skinned, cooled and the horns and cape to the Taxidermist so we did not put the tape on the horns while I was there!
What a dandy Buck though!
Back to the fires.
The fire I thought was OUT here in SW Montana wasn't! As of today (August 28th) its only 85% contained but the smoke is obviously being blown away from my place!
ElCabellero you are so right. Don't anyone be cranky with farmers and ranchers all the while we have the choices at the grocery stores and full pantries at home!
They pay the taxes on their land and work within the often strange laws that get heaped upon their heads to deal with! And they take the good years along with the bad years.
More later
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Varmintguy, I watched the Carlile fire burn just a few miles from here, in early July, it raced along a pine ridge and no way a man could out run it. Thank You I will watch out, we leave Friday for the first trip and I am ready I just came in from my daily 3 mile hike!!

ELKMAN2: You are the man!
3 miles a day is fantastic! I walk out to my mailbox about 4 days a week and its .7 miles each way or 1.4 miles roundtrip!
Even when I have "my legs" in somewhat good shape all I need to do is go from 5,400' where I live at, to where we Hunt Elk at 6,900' to 8,500' and I have to start over "aerobically"!
Yes a wind driven wildfire is a stunning and scarey thing to observe - let alone to try and fight or contain!
Again best of luck to you on your upcoming Hunt!
Pace yourself and keep after'em!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

quote:

Originally posted by MrHawg:
Steve,

In your post, you clearly explained exactly WHY doe/fawn tags are and should be sold. A rough winter in Wyoming WILL be very ugly on wildlife populations, due to drought, and thus little habitat/forage. Sounds like a good reason to shoot does to me. Same reason ranchers are selling cattle again. I'd rather see a bunch of does get harvested (and I'm going to do my part) than see them die in a bad winter.

the mantra here should be "shoot a doe, starve a coyote"

AllanD

VG
Where did your hunting partner get the deer. As far as I know there are no open rifle hunting seasons for deer in Montana right now? Did I miss an early season somewhere?

MtElkHunter: Yes you did miss an early season!
And so did I!
My own damned Hunting partner kept this one quiet even from me! I won't put the particulars of this Hunt on the computer!
E-mail me if you need info!
I had some of the venison last night and its SUBLIME!
The Antlers are in the freezer at the Taxidermist in Whitehall awaiting a special treatment that allows the natural velvet to last quite some time after mounting.
If you are near Whitehall look this Deer up - its a dandy!
I was just there a couple hours ago as I picked up my Mule Deer from last year!
My "partner" lives on a street called "ONE WAY" - up in Twin.
The PRUCK!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Yikes - some more!
The firefighters just CAN NOT get a handle on the Derby Fire (near Big Timber, Montana!)! Its now past 166,000 acres and more evacuation orders are being issued!
Tragically 26 homes have already been destroyed and fire conditions could not be worse for this fire here in the near future!
Warm east winds are moving this fire towards more forest and game ranges!
Its hot and smokey here in SW Montana but the Elk are just starting to bugle in the high country!
The Clark Canyon fire (near my home) is contained but still smoking and the choppers and bombers with retardant are still making flights into the area of this fire!
Send rain and prayers!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VG
I was in the BOB this last weekend and we were camped about 2 miles from a fire burning in there. The FS is watching (by flying over it once a day) it to make sure it does not go anywhere. I must say it is a little unnerving to be camped that close to a fire when you are 20 miles from the trailhead and your group is the only people around. If you want to send some info on that early hunt that would be great. Send it to russril@msn.com

Russ

I just came back from the Hoback River area, the fire at Dubois is getting more under control every day. We were on a mt. top Saturday and watched 2 big plumes of smoke east of us maybe 20 miles, they were being bombed and knocked down quickly, Sunday morning they were gone..The smoke made long distance glassing impossible, anything over a mile was so hazy you could not see any details, I hope it clears up soon. We were into elk but no shots were taken and LOTS of moose, one huge bull!!