I'm shopping scopes and have a couple of basic questions, then I'd like your opinions.

First - when a scope has an adjustable objective lense, do you have to focus it for different distances?

Secondly, does a large objective, 30mm body scope sit too far off of the gun for a good fit w/ the cheekpiece?

I'm looking for a scope for a WBY SBGM in .300 Wby Mag for long range shooting. The three I'm considering are:

Cabela's Alaskan Guide 3-12x52, 30mm - $319 including rings.
Cabelas Outfitter 4-12x40 (or 4-20x40) AO - $399/$439
Leupold Vari-X II 4-18x40 AO - $439.

I don't want to chince on the scope but don't want to spend more than I need to for a good one. What are the opinions here of Cabela's scopes vs Leupold? I've heard the they are made in the same factory.

Thanks,
Jason

For 439 you can get your self a good new Kahles and shoot at reasonable distances.

Long range shooting at targets, or long range hunting?

Perhaps you should ask at the following site where both are explained:
http://www.longrangehunting.com/

I would carefully look at which scope has the best warranty. The .300 Wby's. recoil is tough on some scopes. Leupold has a fast turnaround time, even for scopes shipped from Alaska, but I haven't had the Leupold scopes I use fail. I sent one to them a few years ago after I dented the tube, and it only took 5 work days. I send it Saturday, and had it back the following Saturday. No damage was found, but they tested it, replaced the turret caps and one of the adjustment crews, and cleaned it. All this was done free of charge, and they paid for shipment on the way back.

The adjustable objective allows you to focus on the target and eliminate parallax. It is definitely a feature you will want at longer ranges to combat not only parallax but the optical effect of mirage.

Once set, however it is like any fixed objective scope that has been calibrated for that range.

Comb height will depend on your stock and ring height relationship. My method is to mount rings empty, close my eyes and settle into shooting position and open my eyes. If you are not looking through the center of both rings, either ring height or comb height (or both) needs to be adjusted.

With 50mm+ objectives, most bolt actions will require high or super-high rings. With these rings and a factory stock comb height will probably need to be built up.

I'd would say get the VX-2 in 6-18 for around $400. I think its a very good buy. A friend of mine just bought one (longtime shooter) and is pleased with it.

I can't compare the cabelas scope, I have picked them up in the store they look very clear, but never fired through one.

Eye relief may become an issue behind that 300 mag.

Regards
Mike

AZOnecam,

What do you call long range and are we talking targets or hunting and if hunting, what sort of game?

For hunting deer size game out to say 400m ( hey, thats long range to me!) you might want to consider a plain jane Leupold M8 6x42mm with a heavy reticule. I would certainly consider a used one if you want to save a little money.

Out of the scopes you list, i would again go for leupold, simply because of their great reputation for customer service and the fact you are buying a "known quanitity". Again I would suggest you look at a used scope, maybe a Vari 111 to get the lens coatings and other improvements over the Vari 11...

Regards,

Peter

AZOne,
I personally would opt for the Leupold line, and depending on how long a shot you're talking about you may not need as much scope "power" as you think. I have one 50mm Obj Leupold and although it really sucks in the light it is big and to some would seem awkward. I don't think I'll get another one that big.
If you are seriously looking at long shots the first thing you should get is a lazer range finder. With a 4x16 or 6x20 type scope and a range finder you'll have what equipment you need to become profiecent.
You can make long shots with a lower power scope than you realize. The tradjectory of your bullet is where the key lies in making the shot. I like 10 and 12 power scopes on rifles that I shoot a long ways but for tiny vermin or bullseyes, you can't hit what you can't see. I'd recommend you buy the best name brand scope you can afford and just start shooting. Don't be afraid to get used if it's a Leupold. I have a Weaver that I bought as a cheap use it/ abuse it scope and it still is working fine. A Grand Slam might be a viable choice, and you may decide you shoot good with it and like it.

Then again many people who shoot long range try lots of different scopes before they make up thier mind. The practicing is the fun part, the decisions are whats tough!

Thanks guys. To answer some of your questions, it's going to be long-range hunting out in the wide open desert/canyons in AZ for the itty-bitty, elusive coues deer. I plan to zero at 300 yards but want to be prepared for shots in excess of 400 yards if the opportunity presents itself.

My only coues to date was taken at 200 yards, but this is considered a "close" shot for this species.

Thanks,
Jason

BTW, I have a good lazer range finder, and would only consider a shot over 400 yards if I knew the exact distance and there was not a cross-wind.

AZ:

First, your magnification range is too great for typical big game hunting. The scopes you list are varmint scopes and will be a handicap on a game rifle. Look at a variable with 10X at the top and at least 4X or lower on the bottom. I have tried the 4-12X and 4.5-14X on "long range" rifles (7mmSTW, etc), but found the higher magnification to be of no benefit on even the longest shot and the lack of lower magnification to be a.

Second, an adjustable objective is also a target/varmint aparatus (and can be very useful in those applications), but is totally out of place on a game hunting rifle. It adds weight and complexity, is a potential source for moisture leakage, and is guaranteed to be set for the wrong distance when you do come across that elk or kudu. I have had them on game rifles and have always ending up replacing them with fixed objectives.

Third, yes the large tube, large objective scopes are IMPOSSIBLE to mount low enough to allow proper cheek placement on the stock of any factory rifle produced. To use them, your head must bobble around in space while your eye seeks the sight picture, a situation which makes for very slow and poor offhand shooting. Keep your objective lense at 40mm or less and mount with rings that BARELY allow it to clear the barrel.

Fourth, the Cabela scopes are of Asian manufacture. They may be of passable quality, I can't say. But they are priced right along with the tried and proven American-made Leupold, whose warranty and service is the best industry (and rarely needed), so why would you want to even consider the Cabela. For less than $200 you can get a Leupold VX-I 3-9x which will perform better than your eyes or your gun are capable, and if for some reason you don't like it, you can pull it off and sell it for almost as much as you paid for it. That makes it your lowest-risk, highest return option.

Good Luck!

Stonecreek, curious about your thoughts on AO having no place on a game/hunting rifle for long distance shooting. I'm also in the market for such a scope and had come to the conclusion that AO WAS impotant so as to bring the target animal into close focus at the yardage involved. Almost all sniper scopes, Leupold Mk4, most USO, and even the ASIAN Nightforce, have AO and why would sniper applications call for this on their scopes if what you say is true; i.e., increased complexity, increased risk of water leak, sure to be on the wrong setting when the target presents etc? Most SWS applications also favor the fixed power over the variable as well although the military is rethinking this approach and likely will change to variables for the issue SWS in the next year or so. I had come to the conclusion that the Lepold M8 fixed 6x Tactical version with AO and target knobs but with the duplex recticle may be an ideal scope for this type of long range hunting applications.

Reasonable questions, Joe.

Fixed hunting scopes are set to be parallax-free at about 150 yards. This is an excellent compromise which provides for perfect focus from about 30 yards to infinity.

The parallax adjustment is actually more important for reducing maximum introduced aiming error than for focus. With a fixed objective at distances of 100 yards or less, the 1/10" or so maximum aiming error (which occurs only when the eye is placed at the very edge of the sight picture) is irrelavent on a game animal, although it would be a factor in precision bench shooting. At distances of 200 to 500 yards, the maximum aiming error is likewise very small, probably less than 1" at 500 yards. Again, this is irrelevant on big game, and only applies if the gun is sighted with the eye at one extreme of the sight picture and fired with the eye at the other extreme. With a properly mounted scope and a stock that fits you, you should never have a problem with inconsistent eye alignment anyway.

With an adjustable objective, on the other hand, if you had adjusted it to, say, 50 yards to look over a prospective buck, then suddenly spotted a "shooter" buck at 400 yards and in the heat of passion (or lacking time) did not readjust before shooting, you would have a potential aiming error of several inches, enough to ruin a 400 yard shot.

While I will stipulate that today's AO mechanisms, especially from a quality manufacturer like Leupold, are very sturdy and leak-resistant and dependability may not be much of an issue, they still add to the diameter of the objective lens, forcing you to use a higher scope mount and therby creating the problem of a stock which doesn't fit. And they'll add an ounce or two to the weight.

These are among the reasons (plus price) that I feel an adjustable objective is disadvantageous on a game rifle. They are exellent tools, however, for targets and varmints, in which instance you're shooting in a deliberate manner at small targets at generally known distances.

As to sniping at humans at several hundred yards distance, I have no experience, but suspect that the activity is a very great deal different from hunting game. Any opionion I might express on that subject would be purely conjecture and, I would hope, hypothetical.

AZonecam,

Out of the choices you've selected I would go with the Cabelas Alaskan Outfitter.. I think the glass is far superior to the Leupold vx 2 and vari x III. They are much clearer in my personal opinion. The only thing you wold be missing is a good ballistic reticle. So if I were in your shoes I would get the Burris Fullfield II 4.5x14x42 with the Ballistic Plex reticle. I have tested these out and they are amazing, and I think they would be just the perfect scope for your setup. You can get a great deal on them from clearanceoptics.com it is a section of bearbasin. This is the deal:

Fullfield II 4.5-14X 42mm Matte (Ballistic Plex) AO200183 -SPECIAL- $299

This is an amazing deal. I would really check out this scope and I don't think you'd be unhappy at all. Good luck and good shooting.