Over the last 12 years, Colorado and Wyoming elk have become my main pursuit and a deer tag in Nebraska is a given these days, especially as a resident. While my 338 Win Mag (250 grain Hawk spitzer) has been the best chamber I have used for elk, the 308 Win has long been my mule and whitetail chamber par excellence.

So what about the 308 Win for elk? These days, its hard to beat some of the manufacturer's propriatary mixed powders and loads.

Two manuafacures produce 308 Win loads giving supurb performance at 300 yards. Hornady's 165 grain LM load churns out good power at that distance with 2850 fps. At 300 yards I'm getting 1800 ft-lbs of energy. That load is also a great long range mule and whitetail load out of the 308 Win.

The load that has me most impressed in 308 Win for elk hunting is Federal's 180 grain High Energy (HE)load.

I have handloaded Partitions, Spires and Hawk Spitzers in the 308 Win, both 165 grain and 180 grain. I can't really top some of the potential of these mixed powder loads. The 180 grain Federal load delivers 1900 ft-lbs at 300 yards.

The 308 Win with these powders is essentially a standard 30-06 load, but having an accuracy potential greater than most other .30s.

I have been reluctant to use the 308 Win on elk just because long shots are presented and some may have tough angles. The 338 Win Mag has always been my go to chamber on elk simply because angles present no problems and elk tags are expensive. But a short action rifle is a nice
attribute when combing high altitude rugged terrain, and the 308 Win is a potent, easy shooting, SA chamber with some of the best accuracy around.

Is the 308 Win up to a new speed and integrity never experienced before? In your opinion, is it a bonified elk chamber out to 300 yards with these new fast factory loads?

Yep! Todays factory loads are getting pretty darn good, had they been this good 20 years ago I might not be reloading today, but still, one pays a premium for premium factory loads.

Im very much looking forward to trying Speers new "Deep Shock" bullets on elk. At the same cost as a hornady, they will once again allow a handloader to produce premium loads at a minimal cost. Reports thus far have been very good.

Would you use a .30-06 with the same bullets?? Thats about what the HE loads do to the .308 win, turn it into a lower level 06.

It almost always boils down to placement anyway. A decent bullet at .308 velocities should work well if its in the right spot. I think your limiting yourself a bit compared to your .338 Win though.

I routinely carry a .280 Rem with 150's as my deer rifle. My deer and elk seasons run together and I hunt my deer in the same habitat. I have taken elk occasionally with the .280 Rem with zero problems. I DO pass on bad angles and try to always pop both lungs or I don't take the shot.

Caliber and rifle choice IMHO depends on a lot of factors; How long is your season? How many days CAN you hunt? Just how important is bringing an elk home? Can you get a tag annually or is this a once in a lifetime hunt? Etc, Etc.

I carried a .44 mag pistol this year several days when I hunted elk. Then again I buy a tag over the counter, its cheap, and I had 50% of a bull my cousin had shot earlier this year in my freezer. So I REALLY didn't NEED to take an elk this year, so I could play a little. Had I REALLY needed to take one I'd be out with my .300 mag or the .338-06 instead.

FN in MT

I started packing a .308 in 1964, and I have killed deer, antelope, black bear and a handful of elk with this caliber. Arguably there are better calibers than the .308 to use for elk hunting, but in my judgment it is more than adequate for this purpose. I use Federal Premiums 180 gr. Nolser Partitions. Don�t worry about it, because contrary to what you read on these forums, elk are not bullet proof. The guys below are a few examples of one shot kills that I have made with.308s. CP.

I use the 338 Win MAg as well as 308, '06 and 300 Win Mag. I just shot my first Elk last season and although I used the 338 I think the 308 with 165-180 gr. loads would work just fine. I used the 250 gr. Remington Corelokt but would probably go with a Failsafe or Partition in the 308 just for that bit of extra penetration.

CP,

Whats the story on the deer? A BEAUTY!! I get more excited over whiteys than I do elk. Score is secondary but what did he go??

FN

The .308 will work fine on Elk. I have used it on Wildebeest, Eland, and Zebra, all of which I would say are tougher than elk, and it worked just fine. I have never had any trouble with the many animals (Not sure exactly how many, but well over 100) I've shot with a .308 if my shot was placed correctly. I shoot Federal Premiums loaded with 165gr Trophy Bondeds.

Frank, he was a North Idaho fir jungle buck that let his hormones subordinate his survival instincts. I was still hunting through some timber and caught him at the top edge of an old clear cut chasing a doe around. It was snowing and the wind was in my favor. I had plenty of time to weave a 150 yd shot through the timber and pass a bullet through his heart. I believe that the picture makes him look a little bigger than his actual size. He was a fairly heavy bodied deer, but only had around a 19� spread. I don�t know what he would have scored, but I do recall he was good eating even though he was in aggressive rut when I shot him. CP.

CP,

Nice bull and an extremely nice buck. You have a great deal of experience (1964) with this chamber. The HE Federal with the 180 gr Partition was the load that most impressed me.

I think the 308 Win will work on just about anything, given some range limitations. For bull elk, varying shot angles could limit your choice in taking a shot. Again, this is something you never particulary think about with the 338 Win. I have had those judgements to make in the past. I think I'm going to have a go at the 308 Win next season on elk just for something different. It is a supurb chamber for putting the bullet on the money.

Thanks for the input and take care.

[ 02-16-2003, 22:38: Message edited by: rossi ]

Greg,

Its nice to hear about the 308 Win's use in Africa. I used to read several Jeff Cooper articles that gave it high marks such as yourself.

It appears the 30-06 is the typical non mag .30 taken to Africa, but what the 308 Win yields to in velocity to the 30-06 (only 125 fps) it more than makes up for in shootability and accuracy.

Nice to hear that someone has scored so well with it on African plains game.

A .308 is a 30-06 less about 50-75 yds...

I'm not a fan of .308 or actually any .30-caliber cartridge myself. Anyway, .308 Winchester is the most popular moose-hunting cartridge used here in Finland and every year tens of thousands of moose are shot with it here. Our ranges tend to be on the short side, though. Usually within 100 yards because of the thick brush.

I have shot a lott of game all the way down from Eland to Duiker with a 308 and it killed very well, with good bullets it will work just fine

If i ever get the chance to elk hunt i'll use my .338 , but my backup rifle is a 30/06. I wouldn't hesitate to use it . I would probibly load up 180 grain nosler partition or swift a frame bullets. The 308 is right there with the 30/06. I think to 300 yards there a better choice then the 270 winchester, and look at how many elk the late Jack O'conner has taken with the 270.

A 308 is fine as long as everything goes according to plan.

But when you are in timber and put a bullet up the elk's tail pipe and hope to penetrate more than 4 feet of flesh, including about 50 pounds of chewed wet grass, to make it into the lungs, then the .308 might not be a top choice.

Jack O'Conner isn't the only one to use a 270 on elk. Pete

Should I be able to make it workout, my elk hunting battery this year will be 308 with 180g Barnes XLCs @ 2630fps and a 350g Hornady from a 45-70.

I shot an elk several years ago with a 308. Right through both lungs at close to 275 yards across an incredibly steep canyon. Used 150gr Barnes at 2770fps. That bull acted as if nothing had happened. Shot it again through both lungs, nothing. Shot again, missed. Bull walks 7 yards and falls over dead. My buddy who was watching says"You need more gun!" If that bull had walked another 50 to 100 yards down the mountain it would have added another 2-3 hours to our pack out time. I just took delivery of a 376 Steyr and figure that a 235gr Barnes at around 2800fps+ should do the job just about right!!!

Perhaps I am naive, but if the .308 gave complete penetration through both lungs, two times, why would a bigger gun do better. Has the elk got 4 lungs, and you never reached two of them?? I think the elk just needed a bit of time to bleed out and realize he was dead.

Bull elk at 275 yards, two shots and he's down with less than 10 yards of travel? Good shooting, and good results! I always think it's impressive when a 700 pound animal goes down quickly. Elk and other big game don't always give much indication that they've been shot, even if they're dying. I don't think more gun than the .308 is a "need" but it is one heck of a reason to order up a new rifle/toy, which I can't argue with, having done it myself! Regards, Guy

M700... I read 88's post with a lot of interest as well. I agree that elk often give no indication of a hit. I shot a cow this year at around 325 yards with a 300 WSM and 180 Failsafes... the first shot punched both lungs yet she didn't react and walked another fifteen feet and stopped. I shot again and punched both lungs again... again she didn't react but within a few seconds crumpled and rolled down the steep slope she was traversing, stone dead.

Within half a mile of my cow's demise a friend guided a gent to a 370 class bull... it took five hits at around 200 yards from a 300 Wby (165 XBT's). All hits were in the vitals... the bull didn't react at all but just shuffled around a bit... after the last hit it finally rolled down the slope it was on, stone dead.

Any of these elk could have been hit with any armament up to the 375 H&H and reacted the exact same way and been no deader. I went to the 338 WM for elk originally... after killing elk with it and watching their demise and the demise of other elk with other cartridges I've "scaled back" as I'm doubtful the 338 WM is a better elk killer than a properly loaded 06. Put a good 180 Failsafe (or whatever) where it needs to go and it's light's out! My several friend's who've guided quite a bit go round and round about elk cartridges... one swears it barely matters what you use from a 270 to a howitzer... they all work about the same. One argues that the 33's work better as the animal will react to the hit, but I've not always found that to be the case with the 338 WM... I've concluded all elk are individuals and react differently... cartridges aren't important, shot placement is and today's great bullets have sort of "leveled" the differences between the various rounds.

BA

I agree. Shot placement is everything. I've killed way more elk with my 25-06 than I'll ever kill with my 30 calibers.

I've listened too many camp fire discussion about Elk bullets. Finally believing the arguments that I'm a little undergunned, I actual went out an bought a 270 WSM last year so I could throw an extra 30 grains of lead. And hopefully stay as flat shooting.

Most of my shots with the 25 have been neck and head shots, and the animals drop dead in their tracks. I don't even try that shot with the heavier calibers. Don't have the confidence in my ability to shoot those guns.

I would be perfectly satisfied with the 308 Win, but as 500GGrains has said and I said earlier, there will come a time when that angle is not suitable to chambers and bullets in the 270 Win, 308 Win, 30-06 and .30 mags in general. If your going to drive a bullet from the rear or break shoulders from long distance, the .33s with 250 grainers are hard to beat.

That said, 8 out of 10 times in the field a soft tissue lung shot will be there.

For others using Barnes X type bullets, which I highly subscribe to. Be aware that those bullets typically at high velocity sail on through soft tissue (lungs). It is a very tough controlled expansion bullet that rarely doesn't exit unless obstructed with bone. As such, your almost never going to see, unless you hit a vital (spine, heart, etc.) or a rib, an instant reaction from the quarry.

Its kind of like bow hunting, you have to let that animal air out without pursuing immediately. Make no mistake, if lung shot, they will typically expire within meters of where they were hit if left unpursued.

[ 02-19-2003, 22:03: Message edited by: rossi ]

Alright, I admit it. What my friend really said was, "You need an excuse to buy another rifle, preferably something in a 33,35, or 375 caliber. Why don't you get yourself one more gun!"