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The WOLF situation is another one of those "we know better than You" situations courtesy of the USFWS. No one out here in the West wanted them but they knew better. Now we have a problem. Couple of sad things out of this; #1 how much the whole mess cost taxpayers. We have kids and elderly in need of food and medical care. yet we can spend hundreds of millions of dollars on a program that few people in the States they affect even wanted. #2 the cost in big game. Many years ago the Yellowstone area hunts were coveted tags with a very good shot at a good bull elk. Now with all the wolf kills on the Yellowstone area herds many of those hunts will soon be things of the past. I have written several times over the past two years that the Gardiner hunt will be closed within a few years. I truly do hate to say it but I think I was right. FN in MT | ||
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Frank, that is exactly why we dont need more govt or big govt. My experience with USFWS, and the USFS, and BLM is they are overrun with Biologists, and very few, if any true field people with practical experience. This is all courtousy of the democrats, that is why I would never vote for another democrat, period. | |||
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Do many ranchers pursue a shoot/shovel/shutup policy or are the packs too closely monitored for that? | |||
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Mr. Clown, Here in Ohio, we now are allowed to take 3 or even 4 deer (with an Urban permit) per year now. I would not want to see the wolf re-intoduced around my place. I truly feel sorry for the folks that have them ruining the game for them. Around here, they would be recieved with the same greeting that strays or wild dogs get----that would be a bullet. Here in most parts of Ohio--- we have plows and tractors aplenty and do not have to shovel after we shoot, we can just plow them under  | |||
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Fortruatly the wolves haven't wiped out all the elk just yet, but steps need to be taken to keep the wolf population in check before its too late. This winter will be a test on what the elk heards are doing. Most all the heards in and around the park are still over management objectives however with the exception of the gardiner heard, but with good grass this year, the survival rate should jump back up baring any major winter storms... All we can do is hope for some sort of wolf managment SOON... luckily the feds are shooting a lot more wolves than we hear about... Let just hope they keep it up. | |||
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Quote: Is 15 a "huge" pack? Do they eat only elk, or not? How long do ya figure before they eat all the elk out west? | |||
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According to todays local newspaper, the Dillonite Daily (9/23/2004 - Dillon , Montana) authorization was given to Graeme McDougal (Government Trapper) to kill 3 members of one 15 member Wolf pack here in Beaverhead County! Apparently these 15 Wolves were not content just to kill Elk, Bighorn Sheep, Moose, Deer and other wildlife they were also killing cattle! That is a no-no in Montana by the way! Wolf or not! Mr. McDougal (Government Trapper) took aflight last Friday (September 17, 2004) and killed 3 of the Wolves with six shots from his shotgun. A good start, I interject, at this point. 30 Wolves have recently been killed by authorization of the Wolf Projects "Guru" (an unknown entity referred to in the article) in Beaverhead County, Montana ALONE! Nothing in the article addressed the significant overpopulation of Wolves in Idaho, Wyoming or Montana. Overpopulation according to even what the greenies and the rmef endorse! Overpopulation by a wide margin even compared to what the U.S.F.W.S. wants! Maybe when all the Elk and Bighorn Sheep are reduced to long dried up Wolf crap the greens and their brothers in arms - the rmef (more intellectual idiots!) will stand up and say "wass' zat"? Or something equally as impressive! Contact your legislators and do not support the rmef if you value Hunting Big Game in the Rocky Mountains! And don't give me any crap about the rmef buying land for the Elk - the Elk were increasing and doing well long before the rmef began its forrage for money! Indeed in many areas the Elk are at record numbers here in Montana and liberal seasons are in play in some areas but in areas where the Wolves are established the Elk Hunting opportunities (tags) have been diminished. Remember each Wolf eats the bio mass equivelent of 1.8 Elk per month! Not each Wolf pack! EACH WOLF! So thats 27 Elk masses that ONE pack of 15 Wolves ate each month! According to the latest estimates the Wolves now number at least 700 animals in the three state area. Hmmm..... thats 1,260 Elk masses per month or 15,120 Elk masses per year. I wonder how long the rmef thinks the funds will flow after no one can Hunt Elk in the Rocky Mountains? Maybe they think they can start garnering funds from the suporters of the Rocky Mountain Wolf Foundation? I don't think so! Hold into the wind VarmintGuy | |||
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Quote: VarmitGuy Thats when the greenies will say hunting is no longer needed...thier intended outcome and why they pushed for wolves. I have a friend in WY.His nephew drew a sheep tag...They did not find one sheep where they were hunting. Jeff | |||
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Jeff: I agree with you 100% on the intent of the introduction of Canadian Wolves to the mountains of Montana, Idaho and Wyoming! Let no naive observer sway you from the true and sinister intent of the modern greens! The horrors I have seen committed and implemented in the USFWS, BLM, USFS and in many state governmental agencies recently would fill a book and do not bode well for the folks that over the last century have fought so hard to rebuild our Big Game Herds - we the Hunters and our forebearers! I worry about the future of Big Game Hunting in the U.S.! I am saddened that your friends were not succesful there in Wyoming for Sheep! Thats a once in a lifetime opportunity lost! 2 local state game biologist/wardens were doing an aerial Elk survey near my home a few years ago and they observed Wolves killing Bighorn Sheep! Sad state of affairs this. Not only is Big Game Hunting at risk but the liveliehoods of so many people here out west are in jeopardy! Hold into the wind VarmintGuy http://bozemandailychronicle.com/articles/2004/01/08/news/01elkbzbigs.tx I have added this link from the Bozeman Chronicle for those that may have missed it earlier this year. | |||
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btt The coyotes that I've killed in N. Mn average about 45 pounds (mostly males). A big one is 55-60 pounds-tops. I kinda feel sorry for the coyotes in my area, with the wolves about.. and such. Female wolves seem to average around 80 pounds and the males go way over 100 pounds. If you've ever seen the dentures on a big male wolf, you will understand why they are so superior to coyotes and other predators. A single wolf can easily kill a 150 pound whitetail by itself, if it can catch it. A coyote is no problem to catch or to kill and the wolves seem to enjoy it. There are so many whitetail deer in my area that we can shoot five of them this year. Maybe whitetail are way smarter than elk and can avoid wolves? | |||
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Hey, just asking some questions. I'm quite familiar with SSS. Lots of folks do it in my area. Nothing new. Seems like westerners think they invented it or something. | |||
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Shoot, Shovel and shut up | |||
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Bog: Yes, 15 is a huge pack! Like I explained in my initial posting - no they do not only eat Elk. I have seen Wolves chasing Antelope in fact! Wolves also eat Mule Deer, Moose, Bighorn Sheep, Whitetailed Deer and all manner of domestic stock. I could guess on when the Elk will be officially listed as "threatened" or "endangered" but that would only be a guess. What I am immediately worried about is the frighteningly low (so low in fact they are no where near enough to sustain herd numbers) calf to cow ratios in Elk herds where Wolves predate on them! I am also worried that more "limitations" on Big Game Hunters (those most responsible for bringing back our Big Game Herds during the last century by the way!) will certainly spread and increase! By the way bog, when do YOU think we will have enough Wolves out west to satisfy the greenies and the rmef? Hold into the wind VarmintGuy This new link takes you to a Wolf "BUREAUCRACY" article from todays Bozeman, Montana paper that shows the intrinsic mind set of the bureaucrats that heaped this Wolf misery on the people from Montana, Wyoming and Idaho (and coming soon to Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, Oregon and Washington!)! http://bozemandailychronicle.com/articles/2004/09/29/news/01nodelisting.txt | |||
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I got an off line personal E-mail question regarding the "mind set" of the people involved in Wolf re-introduction and management. I answered in private but think it is worth expounding on here also. In part the feds heaped this Wolf shit upon the citizenry of the 3 states (Wyoming, Montana and Idaho for now) and now that the Wolves are populated way past what even the greens wanted and way past what the Wolf recovery cretins wanted inflicted upon us, they want the various states to "become involved"! Or should it be said "pay for" and bear the burden of the "management" and the legion of law suits that will deluge the courts in Montana, Wyoming and Idaho when the state game departments decide to try and halt the Wolf caused slaughter of Big Game and domestic animals. Of course the folks that should be responsible for "paying" for the damages done and the "new" state bureaucrats that will be needed to continue the various Wolf programs (like the greens, the USFWS and the rmef will of course not ante up even one penny to monitor and protect the Wolves. Useless cocksuckers these! Aaaahhh yes... predictable as the sunrise these greens and their allies! Heap the costs of what they want on anyone but themselves and bankrupt with lawsuits anyone, anything or any entity that gets in their way or differs with their green, obstructionist views! Tiring as it is dealing with these greens and the new breed of federal and state bureaucrats, those of us that enjoy Hunting and the outdoors had better step up to this new style of fight and get involved. Predictable as the spring rains the bureaucrats empty promises of 8 years ago that once the Wolves got to certain populations the states could then regulate (and Hunt!) them! I predict it will be a long time and Hunters will lose a lot of Hunting opportunities to the greens and the rmef favorite predator - the Wolf before the states can independently manage this scourge! And that is a shame! Hold into the wind VarmintGuy | |||
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I couldn't agree more with the above post.Idaho now has the authorization to kill off "another" pack out of McCall this year from there eatin on Sheep and Cattle with like 400 known Wolves already.What about the un-known.We have them right here just out of Town in Grangeville and about every other bumper sticker say's "Shoot-Shoval and Shut-up". Elk are going down in numbers locally and quoata's are in for the hunters now when it wasn't.It does not take a Rocket Scientist to figure this one out. Jayco | |||
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You guys oughta kill all them wolves, that way the elk herd will come back up and the money will start pouring in again. Another alternative though would be to reintroduce the wolf to the eastern US. The deer populations back east are WAY too high and the bunny huggers (and the states) won't increase the bag limits. Might was well let the wolves eat 'em. Would give the bunny huggers a bit of their own medicine too! ASS_CLOWN | |||
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The answer is spelled... S N I P E R S | |||
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Quote:I'd like to shoot him and hang him on my wall.  We need to open up a season for people like this Mr. White. Sevens | |||
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Interesting. The Maine coyotes are nearly twice the size of western coyotes; there has been some speculation that coyote-wolf hybrids were loosed up there, either by accident or design. | |||
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Hate to tell you this but I think this already has been done, most likely on the sly. There has been a big push by the tree huggers in NY to reintroduce the wolf to the Adirondacks. Though supposedly no action has been taken on the actual reintroduction. The odd thing is a coyote hunter in NY was arrested (I believe it was last winter/spring). Seems he shot what he thought was a big coyote. Took it to have a mount made. I guess NY DEC and Fed Wildlife heard wind of this big coyote and checked it out. Ran DNA on it and than arrested him for shooting a protected animal. There are three main thoughts on how the wolf got here. Thought 1 is that the NYDEC & Fed Wildlife introduce some without public notification. Thought 2 is a tree hugger group introduced some without public knowledge. Thought 3 is it was a pet that as it grew and became two much to handle was let go. My insticts go with thoughts #1 or #2 because the NYDEC & Feds were real quick and made a big effort to jump on this large coyote rumor they heard. | |||
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crazy, I am all for it! Let these tree huggers see first hand what the wolves are like, from their own back yards. I have lived in several states over the years with wolf populations. I know what they do (or at least I have a better idea than practically any bunny humper I know). ASS_CLOWN | |||
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Are coyotes are much bigger than the western ones. Probably by 20 plus pounds. Lot of speculation if they crossed with wolves.>John | |||
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