The Pittsburgh newspaper just reported three men illegally shot three bull elk from the PA herd. One bull was a 10X9 that scored 432 7/8 inches. They were night hunting and cut the horns off to sell on ebay. No meat was taken. They were apprehended the next night coming back to do it again. The dummies had a saw with them with fresh elk blood and hair as well as a rifle in the same caliber used to poach the elk. They promptly confessed. Fines will be $13K with the state seeking $11.5K in replacement cost.

shoot, shovel and shut up

quote:

Originally posted by Navaluk:
shoot, shovel and shut up

F-ing idiotic response.

I took the SSS as a remedy for the poachers, not the wasted elk.
These DBS that wasted the elk do not need to breed, much less breathe.
This is the type of crap that gives all gun owners and hunters a bad name.

Texas Killartist wins! Treat poachers like what they are, wolves.

There are probably no trophy bull elk in PA that don't get photographed on a routine basis. Thinking you could get away with shooting one and selling identifiable antlers was not a well thought out plan.

Story here: Third largest PA elk poached




.

Until, hunters, and I use that term very loosely, begin to accept the concept that record book measurements are NOT the be all/end all, this kind of stuff will continue to happen.

Boone & Crockett, Pope & Young, SCI and all the other "Record" keeping organizations need to get their shit together and stop recognizing the person that killed the animal, but just the animal.

I firmly believe that as long as ANYONE can gain PERSONAL gratification over an animal they supposedly killed, this type crap will continue.

quote:

Originally posted by Texas Killartist:
I took the SSS as a remedy for the poachers, not the wasted elk.
These DBS that wasted the elk do not need to breed, much less breathe.
This is the type of crap that gives all gun owners and hunters a bad name.

Ah, perhaps I misunderstood. If so, I agree with you.

Poachers are criminals and should be treated as such. The sentence was too light. Poachers should go to jail.

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Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
Poachers are criminals and should be treated as such. The sentence was too light. Poachers should go to jail.

I completely agree. Stiffer sentences are needed.

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
Poachers are criminals and should be treated as such. The sentence was too light. Poachers should go to jail.

I completely agree. Stiffer sentences are needed.

+2

Are those rosy from Oregon?

quote:

Until, hunters, and I use that term very loosely, begin to accept the concept that record book measurements are NOT the be all/end all, this kind of stuff will continue to happen.

That and the continued use of high fence properties to grow the biggest to be shot by "hunters".

The whole concept of the High Fenced deer properties would have never gotten off the ground had the competition for who could "Buy" the biggest genetic freak never gotten the push it did.

With Americans being so willing to turn ANYTHING into a competition, who can really blame enterprising entrepreneurs from seizing an opportunity to make money.

All of the various state game and fish agencies should have fought the whole "Trophy White tail/High fence" concept tooth and nail, they didn't.

Instead, they along with some states Agriculture depts. saw a new and growing avenue of income for their states and some of the citizens of those states citizens.

Americans on the whole have became a nation of instant gratification and notoriety hounds, many not caring how much $$$$$$ they have to spend to reach those goals, most not caring about the image the general public including many hunters are viewing this behavior with.

I am not against high fenced hunting operations for exotic animals as long as they are managed properly. I am not against high fenced white tail hunting operations, IF, they would move away from the production of genetic freaks.

Look how long the Jordan Buck stood as the record. It wasn't until white tails started expanding their range into new areas and the over all management schemes across the nation, both within state Game agency philosophy and among hunters, allowing bucks to reach maturity better monitoring and managing overall deer numbers and other practices such as implementing supplemental feed plots, that antler size in the free ranging began to increase.

But as with anything else humans are involved in there is always a certain element that take things over the line and look for avenues to reap the cash just waiting to be handed them over a big set of antlers, even though with one exception, the major "Record" keeping organizations do not recognize these genetic freaks. God help us if they did.

Interesting how hunters as individuals will state how much they dislike poachers.

Yet on some of the hunting TV programs, the star is a convicted poacher.

quote:

Originally posted by Navaluk:
Interesting how hunters as individuals will state how much they dislike poachers.

Yet on some of the hunting TV programs, the star is a convicted poacher.

Simple remedy, do not support the star or the show.

My personal feelings are that even if game farms, high fence operations and record books did not exist there would still be a market for poached horn. People will pay money to hang that on their wall and make up their version of how they hunted it.

I fail to see or understand how some jackass on 'reality'tv is a 'Star' in anybody with a brains mind. There are 'some' decent hunting shows, but there are a bunch that are nothing more than advertisements for products. 'If you buy this gun w/ this scope and use theses bullets while wearing this camo, covered in this scent blocker wearing these boots and looking through these binoculars you too can kill a giant buck---even at 600 yds. Let's go get um bubba'. Sales hype for the average goreon sitting on the couch. Nothing more than pushing products on the dumb masses who watch shit tv.

I agree TK.....it's gotten to the point IMO that most of them are unwatchable anymore. There's about 5 minutes of hunting and 25 minutes of commercials.

quote:

Interesting how hunters as individuals will state how much they dislike poachers.Yet on some of the hunting TV programs, the star is a convicted poacher.

Interesting how some hunters do not have the ability to comprehend that NOT ALL OF US WATCH SUCH SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do not watch ANY hunting shows, and if I do, it will be Tracks Across Africa, but NOTHING concerning hunting in North America!

Navaluk, maybe YOU need to understand that not EVERYONE views things exactly as you do, and that making the statements that you did alienates the people that do not like what has happened to deer hunting in America any more than you do!

CH, that's how I feel too. I don't watch hunting shows either. Ditto fishing. Except for that Tracks show, on the rare times when I just happen to catch it. I'm not sure why I like that and at same time can't get excited watching someone else whack N.A. big game or birds. Maybe because the latter is too familiar and I've done it so much that I can't get anything out of it as spectator sport. Maybe Tracks Across is that danger and exotic that I'll never experience, or maybe I think big bore double rifles in the jungle are just cool.

The times I HAVE watched hunting shows, I have to admit, I can really do without the yucking it up and end zone dance like stuff that's common. Real lack of class.

In fifty years afield I've NEVER in real life seen hunters do that. They may do a lot of other things, just not that.

Oh, about them high fences. The local one I'm "blessed" with being neighbors to I'm told wasn't put in for breeding/raising trophy live stock, I mean, trophy deer. Although they certainly have them. You see them standing at the fence looking out at you.

I'm told the fence is really there to keep our local top citizens out. Who would otherwise think it's a public hunting area, or, as more typical, a place for drug deals, a lover's lane, a place to raid your cabin and a place to leave burned out stolen cars, etc, etc. You might say it's a "sketchy 'hood"...

In Pa. we have the PGC,( Pa. Game Comm.) whom lost power over the game farming industry to the Pa. Dept. of Agri., just guess whom supports the "farmers" that raise these exotics to be used as breeders and hunting preserve stock.
Now the PGC has no control over CWD animals that escape into the wild to infect wild herds of deer and elk and for that matter wild hogs that escape to breed freely in the wild.
I'm on the fence about the issue as I understand a man has the right to earn his income as he pleases on his property .But at issue are the many Amish farmers here in Pa. that throw up a hap hazard fence then go out and buy a few breeders to make a quick dollar. Their animals rarely get blood tested and do quite frequently escape.
As far as someone going to a game farm to kill what they see as a trophy if it's legal so be it. They need not explain themselves to me nor any other serious hunter as it is usually apparent where that animal came from, one doesn't kill a 250" whitetail in an area where the normal buck scores 110" too often in their lifetime.

I would add to my prior post that the same goes for elk in a preserve vs. wild free range.
But really is so different in game farms vs. farming for game, i.e. Lee & Tiffany style? They lease or buy up large tracts of agricultural land then farm it with the intention of paying taxes/leases and grow whitetails as the primary crop? How often on TV shooting shows do you hear, "he needs one more year...." then later in the episode listen as they bemoan that their "up 'n comer" got killed on a neighbor's property.

quote:

Originally posted by 2th doc: They lease or buy up large tracts of agricultural land then farm it with the intention of paying taxes/leases and grow whitetails as the primary crop? How often on TV shooting shows do you hear, "he needs one more year...." then later in the episode listen as they bemoan that their "up 'n comer" got killed on a neighbor's property.

So are you supportive of this? I don't have a problem with planting crops to support the wildlife on or around your property, even if it's not for cash crops. Patterning a wild (not captive) animal and being selective in what you kill is admirable IMO. As far as Lee and Tiffany, I've never watched their show other than to look at her tits for a few minutes one time out of curiosity.

There is a distinct difference between the P&Y and B&C and the SCI.

The latter "record book" was formed by small peckered "big shots" who will pay any amount $$$$ for bragging rights.

FWIW high fences are more important in keeping other deer out from diluting/polluting any established/evolving blood lines. It's a whole different operation involved than just throwing protein out and fencing. There's usually fuckloads of culling done after the clients/shooters are gone.

There is a very fine line that separates fair chase.......Frankly, sheep hunting today is no better and almost a joke- they are more often than not "picked out" by the guide while flying around before he gets dropped off to camp the day before the client arrives.

I've hunted all over the world except Asia an produced one of these TV hunting shows for a few years that some of you seem to get so much enjoyment out of by trashing them. I do not poach nor do I make a practice of hunting behind wire with the exception of one time killing a bison in S.D.
I have no more use for people like the Tiffanys than I do for game farm hunters. What Lee & his buxom bride do harms sport hunting a lot more IMHO. They and their ilk tie up land with lease money that is lost to regular working guys. With the success comes more leased land, etc. not to mention copy cats doing the same thing. Do they have the right to do so, yes . Is it good for hunting, no.
What drives both the Lee & big tits and poachers is greed. I agree one is legal while the poacher is just a greedy egotist S.O.B.