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Your questions are not really answered by cartridge choice or gun style choice, Scott. The real issue is skill level of the hunter. I have used a Ruger SBH in 44RM for deer and elk, it is perfectly capable of taking them in a humane manner, the real question is, is the hunter capable of using these tools for a humane kill. More cartridge and more gun does not offset this. I think a 308 or a 7x57 would be a good choice as a trainer, provided the person is willing to put in the time and rounds thru the gun. If the answer to that question is no, perhaps you should introduce them to the "Bakes" technique (See Ann's post in Misc)  | ||
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I'm also of the opinion that the .44 Mag isn't suitable for someone who is inexperienced, or unfamiliar with what it takes to use a pistol cartrige with success. There are many good choices in the medium size rifle cartriges that would be easier for a novice to shoot well. The little bit more weight with a full length barrel will help reduce both felt and percieved recoil. Personally I'd be handing them a .280 I've got. It could be loaded down for practice and with decent heavier bullets for the actual Elk hunt. As has been said before, even a .30-30 with 170's wouldn't be a bad choice. | |||
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Quote: Hmm, how many deer were taken using the .38-40, .44-40 and even .32-20? The key is that the riflemen knew their limitations and operated within them. As far as inherently inaccurate, what are you smoking? If got "inferior" lever guns that wil shoot an honest inch at 100 yds but have had several "modern" cartriges in bolt guns that were lucky to shoot 1.5" groups. If a 8 oz hammer will do the job why use a 10 lb sledge? Tons of game are wounded each year using so called "modern" cartridges. It all comes back to the hunter and his/her capabilities. | |||
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I live in elk country i hunt elk a lot i've guided elk hunters i own a 44mag I wouldn't use it to hunt elk | |||
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Stumpjumper I see you are also in south jersey, I was wondering how close we may be. I am in Tuckerton NJ down the shore. I agree with you also in that reloading the 44 mag gives you so much more in regards to versitility on the 44. I reload my Dan Wesson 445 supermag on my Dillon xl 650 and I am passionate about this round and handgun hunting. So I guess Thats why I chimmed in here. Have a good one. Brian | |||
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44 mag, 300 Hornady XTP over 19.0 H110 (double check that load). This will and has killed elk at extremely close range, bow range, when the bullet hit the anterior superior aspect of the shoulder girdle (at the spine). But, I still do not recommend it to a questionable shooter/hunter. Go with a .308, 165 bullet. Re15, IMR3031 are good powders. The plinking route was good advice, then stuff the hunting bullets for elk. If in fact the hunter shoots at an elk, I would think their excitement would be high enough to where recoil would be missed to some degree. Good luck and good shooting. | |||
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I have to admit I haven't read all of this but I guess I have to ask; If the hunter in question can't tolerate the recoil of a round adequate for elk WHY are they even hunting elk??? FN in MT | |||
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Quote: You should tell that to the 350# Boar I took w/ my S+W Model 586 357 Magnum (158 grn JHP) and the Pile of other porkers I have piled up as well. My 586 will shoot 3" groups at 50 yds (Open Sights) so, I know it is accurate, I just keep my distances to 50 and below. I am going to take it deer hunting this year (short range). Heck, it is alot more humane than a broadhead on a carbon shaft. Good Luck! Reloader | |||
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I would never opt to use a 44 Mag for elk but do for Black Bear and whitetail. I use a 1894 Marlin with a 20" barrel and hard cast Buffalo Bore ammo. Recoil is indeed sharp but not unmanagable for even a moderatly experienced shooter IMO. | |||
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I've taken three elk with the .41Magnum. All were one shot kills. The longest was a tad over sixty yards. Given a properly placed shot at a reasonable distance, I don't see any problem at all. I've also taken elk with a .30-30, .280Remington, 7mmRemington Magnum, .338Winchester magnum, .348Winchester, .411/.416Remington magnum, .416Rigby, .309JDJ, .338JDJ#2, .411JDJ, .41Whammy, .475Linebaugh, and a compound bow. I handgun hunt like I bowhunt. Get as close as you can, then get a little closer. Elk are NOT invulnerable. Good luck in whatever you settle on for the critters.  | |||
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Quote: And let me add that before those new fangled, high powered, self contained brass cartridges came on the scene, a whole slew of elk were taken with a ballistically inefficient round ball of approximately 180 grains, with a sectional density of about .107 (assuming a true diameter of .490), launched at about the same muzzle velocity as a 240 grain bullet from a 6" barreled .44 Magnum revolver. Last I heard, some folks are still killing elk with those antiquated pipsqueaks. I'm not suggesting that everybody run out and use the lightest gun and load you can find, but I think we get too caught up in power and forget that it's where you hit'em, not what you hit'em with that is most important. Next to my "Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery..." tag line, my second favorite quote is one I read from an Indian guide as reported in an old Gun Digest - "any gun good gun, shoot'em good!" There's an article in another old Gun Digest called "My Mountain Magnum" or some such about a fellow who thinks his Marlin .44 is just the ticket for thick woods and relatively short range (100 yards or so) shooting. | |||
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It couldn't be explained any better then Joe Mack & Jim in Idaho have worded it. I have worked for my father doing Taxidermy since I was a tiny nipper, & with doing this, you get a real good idea of what shot placement is about, & how important & critical it is. I have seen Elk, Moose, & Lg. Bear shot with 45/70's, 338 Win.mag., 35 whelen & so on, & we had to sew many bullet holes in the cape & hide, because the shooter took chance shots & hopped that the large Cal. will make up for faulty marksmanship. Then I have seen these same animals that were taken with hand guns & they for the most part was a one shot deal, because the hunter respected the animal & the firearm in use. That to me is a better example of a sportsman , then the man thinking a lg. caliber is better so they don't have to be as careful. That in so many words is what gives the tree huggers & anti's more ground to the discreet hunters. No your gun & your own ability befor attemping to hunt anything from a rabbit to an Elk. Get good with all of your weapons. 445 Supermag. Yes I am somewhat formiliar with your area. I did a job up in Tuckerton about 12 years ago. I live at the bottom of the Pine Barrens. I was born in Leesburg, & now I live in Laural Lake, just outside of Millville. I live right on the game reserve. We may of shared some of the same woods in the past & never knew it. | |||
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