I find his posts most disturbing.I feel most here would do best by simply ignoring his posts and not responding. He has lost the respect of all, to disagree is one thing but to post f--k y-u is unacceptable. I won't respond to this persons reply and will not open any E mails from him. I suggest others do the same. I believe this post is needed to bring about some civility to this forum. MtnHtr

[ 08-10-2002, 23:49: Message edited by: MtnHtr ]

I do not hide anymore then most people on this site. I have been named as hiding twice in the last two days and its always funny because these same people have no more information about themselves in their profile then I do and do not post anymore personnal information in their posts than I do. Go figure.

Anyways I have posted my real name to a few people on this site when I have to, such as for Saeeds video and also in a email conversation with JBelk.

Anyways I will not post my real name on this site because anyone can get on here and get my name, email address and do some harm to me in more then a few ways. Since posting my email addrress I have had atleast one person email me that I would rather them not, but I guess thats the price I paid.

And no, ignoring me is not going to do anything because I am more stubborn then Ray Atkinson...And if you find my posts disturbing, well, I hope you go throughout your life with a blindfold on and ear plugs in your ears. I also hope you never watch TV or see anything terrible.

I would also say that in return, you would not confront me in person.

Buell

Buell,
Your just another big mouth like Tibbe, Mondele etc. You have no respect for ANYONE but Buell, the all knowing...Now you'll whine like a baby accusing us of "picking on you" and calling everyone sheep...Your pathetic.

add bbbabbler to the list as well

Buell's wit and wisdom has had one positive effect.

I have discovered that there are other, more civilized boards out there. Imagine a place where folks can discuss and debate without insulting each other.

It sure isn't here

ZM

Stubblejumper:

I must disagree, I find the BBBabbler to be hilarious and think that he was a major factor in ridding us of OWNMNBS, of course, the dog episode might have helped. Don't take posts that are meant to be funny, and are, so seriously. He mostly posts in response to idiots like Buell and OWNMNBS, and their ilk. And does a great job of it, IMO.

I must say that I believe this forum as changed some since I first discovered it a few monthes ago. I don't post much because I don't know much and when I have posted I have sometimes discovered later that I was wrong. I come here mainly to gain knowledge and hear about actual hunts that I will more than likely never get to experience. Lately guys like me that do post are ridiculed for not being as knowledgeable or finding answers for there questions by means that were the only ones available in "the good ole days". Also it seems that some of the "more knowledgeable individuals" just want to follow others around and be combative rather than just tell what they think and why.
I can only speak for myself but I believe people of my age and experience level are fastly becoming dependant on internet sources for information on reloading, hunting, and guns in general. I think that it has become increasingly difficult to sort through the crap to find the answers.
I am also going to stick my neck out and make a request that if someone like me posts a question or a statement that seems elementary to the more experienced in this forum that they explain to us in a reasonable and polite manner why we are wrong or possibly why what we are doing is dangerous. We definitly want to know but not in a manner that is degrading.
Thank you for reading this post and understanding.

I know alot of people get upset by the content of some of these posts but chrimeny we are an entertaing lot.

We got Ray and Belk, the older brothers, hunting down Tibbe (Eddie Haskall) like a rabid coyote. Tibbe is on the border and trying to get away.

Deranged-Havoc-Avacado is deep philosophical discussion with the right side of his brain that not even he understands and MacD37 is being sucked into this vortex without a clue as to how it is happening.

Mondele is/isn't a PH but he is and idiot and every family needs a member like that so they can compare themselves favorably to somebody.

Buel is the foulmouthed, know it all little brother that you loved to pound on. We all hope that he will grow up to be a man someday.

BBBabler is the drunken uncle that mom keeps in the back of the house so the neighbors won't see him.

Critrchik is our mom. Quick witted and full of common sense and she still loves us no matter how badly we behave.

Saeed is the father figure that knows that he just needs to direct his disfunctional family by a few well chosen words.

Our 'strine' cousins try to play with the sepos but we won't let them because they're 'strines'.

We have a bunch of shirt tail relations from Europe who look on the whole thing with a slightly bemused expression. They think that this is really funny and just pray that they never get adopted.

My only regret is that I have to spend so much time roaming around the site to keep track of all of the different plots and twists that go on. Can't we have all of this put in one place so we can just go through it and leave the other sites for information?

ElCaballero,

I think those seeking knowledge can also help their cause by typing an extra line or two.

Quesions on these forums often appear as follows:

My Ruger is not shooting with Hornady bullets.

In my 30/06 is 59 grains of 4350 to much powder.

It would help if if such things as caliber, bullet weight etc. were included.

Mike

More like the Osbornes
Mad

Mike,
I will agree that has newbies we sometimes lack the vocabulary to get our questions across. Please be patient with us and we will be answering someone elses questions in a few years.

I've had the same experience as Elcabellero. Very disheartening when all your trying to do is spark some dialogue on a topic you enjoy or solve a problem you don't know very much about.

Just because someone posesses a great deal of knowledge on a particular subject doesn't mean they're a good teacher. Good teachers can discern what you are actually asking for and relay the answer in a way that makes sense.

If you can't understand the question and want more information, just ask. Or better yet, cover a range of possibilities for the answer and you might help someone with a problem that is similar but not exactly the same as the one posted. If you don't have the time or inclination to answer a general question or one that wasn't posed properly....just skip the post. We'll never even know we missed out on your potential enlightenment anyway.....too bad for us....I guess.

[ 08-11-2002, 06:54: Message edited by: Nebraska ]

El and Nebraska,

What are your views on this question and then the answer.

http://www.serveroptions.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=005551

Mike

Mike375, (or is it Mike, the traitor, 416 yet? ),

I think both responses to a most ambiguous question were excellent and informative.

I do, however, believe Nebraska and ElCaballero have raised valid issues.

Given the atmosphere of late, it would be all too easy for the members of experience to lose sight of the educational resource they represent. In the heat of the battle, the younger inquisitive folks may have been falling through the cracks.

Perhaps this thread will help alleviate the issue.

Regards,

~Holmes

I have been here for more years than most, I came to help people and I have done that..I know that to be true from the number of emails I get and anyone who has asked me for help has gotten it and none will tell you that I treated them with less than I would a family member...

That said if you are not the one under a constant attack, and you don't put yourself in a position of stating your views, which is what this is all about then you will never become involved, you are straddling the fence so to speak but if all did that then the threads would wither and die as would the forum...

When you post your opinnions, right or wrong, and someone attacks your business that feeds your family and tells outright lies or calls you stupid, ignorant or makes such outlandish statements as F--k you, on a regular basis, then I would wager that Nebraska, Holmes or El Cabalero would find it within themself to respond in kind...

I would and have tried to respond only to questions of balistics, guns and hunting of big game and would love to keep it to that alone, but as of late the hecklers, troublemakers and such have shown up. Two in particular picked me out because I have been here the longest and post a lot. I have a lot of friends on here but I earned their friendship, it didn't just happen...

My son tells me to hang in there because when school starts it all stops, that they are just bored cyberspace kids that have notheing else to do, perhaps that is correct...

I guess what I'm saying is before you cast a stone be sure you can live up to it, it may be your turn in the barrel next if you involve yourself...The other alternative is to just bugger out and not be a part of it. That is a consideration for all of us....We must decide if it is worth the hassle...

At any rate I'm going hunting and will be gone for quite a while..

Ray,

Enjoy your hunt my friend, and come back safely with lots of stories.

Oh, don't forget to whack a one of those dagga boys for me too

jumped the gun, sorry

[ 08-11-2002, 09:47: Message edited by: Curtis_Lemay ]

Curtis_Lemay

The site www.longrangehunting.com has a forum for new people.

I think many of the questions asked, that would be much better if the poster did the extra line of typing, are put forward by people who are trying a few things everywhere.

Standard story, minimum input and expect the world.

My experience on these forums has been that the people who do the one line question, don't seem to revisit the thread that they started.

Mike

Mtn.Htr: shut up. no one cares about the civility you're trying to enact..it'll never happen anyhow...open your eyes and step out of tv-land, you're in the REAL world now. it's not leave it to beaver, it's not happy days, it's not a peaceful christian community....it's reality. i'm sorry you had to find out only now.

atkinson: i find that your grammar and vocab are both pretty lame, and the sad/ironic thing about that, is that some people on ar.com actually think so highly of it that they have complimented it with such ass-kissings as: "jeez, mr. atkinson, you have a way with words!" i only wish i could remember the dumb son of a bitch who said that so i could read him the riot act. i don't think you should ever write that book i heard mention of; it'd no doubt be nearly as illegible as the rest of your common ravings. also, you instigate as much shit with buell as he does with you, so from where you come off as mr. maturity, i haven't the faintest..."I came to help people and I have done that" maybe you've helped people (your sheep), but NO!!! you did not come here to help people, stop acting the saint; you came on ar.com to sit on your ass all day starting shit with buell. you spend more time gabbing on ar.com than most people on this site combined. you probably joined to assert some authority like back in the DEA, uh? i'll never believe you do this for anybody but you, stop bullshiting yourself and your poor sheep; their loyality to you, often in the face of fact and integrity, deserves the truth at least, i think.

all the sheep: to hell with you.

Jagermeister,
Hey, I may be the one you can read the riot act to. Does it count that I refer to "Atkinsonisms" to describe some of Ray's colorful expressions? We all make typos and we all can read through them, except for the little prissy boys like you. You ought to try to understand what is actually being said, you know, try to get the message?

Now read me the "riot act" and then shut up yourself, and get back in the closet with Buell. (A vomiting graemlin would go well here.)

I am quaking in my boots.

Aw, shucks! There I go restling with pigs again!

Not to worry, RAB, sometimes we can't help ourselves. Those two needed a good spanking a while back, but I guess their Mommy or Daddy wasn't up to the job. They take that act out into the real world and it'll do it for them.

Mike,
That question is makes your point. I appreciate the the civil and educational answers.

Atkinson,
I in no way meant to step on your toes. In fact I have found myself looking for your replies to a post and then going on to a well written opposing post as that is usually all that is needed. Infact you have answered some of my stupid questions with an answer that worked and a kind word to boot. Thank You! I too say hang in there. If newbies like myself lost theknowledge of individuals like you it would be a shame. GOOD HUNTING.

Curtis,
I am not sure a newbie forum would work. Can you imagine a whole page of questions like the one Mike pointed out. I am begining to think maybe I should have kept my mouth shut again but maybe someone will think about when they first started before they jump down someone elses throat.

All Newbies,
It is kind of like a parts store here pleases list as much relevent info as possible. Atleast make model and year.

Anybody,
I was not into naming names a pissing people off but I won't straddle the fence and it seems that I have made some believe that I am over there when I am over here. In my original post on this thread I was talking about Buell. (now I'm in for it) Since I am going to get cussed at anyway are Jagermiester and Buell the same person? The reason I ask is that they are the only two on here that agree with each other. What do you think.

[ 08-11-2002, 18:12: Message edited by: ElCaballero ]

Jagermeister,
I apoligize for my spelling and improper wording as I am lax in my posting, as I really feel this should be about hunting and firearms not for your test grading of my papers...

That said, everyone knows that you and Buell are best of friends OR one in the same, so I discount your disgusting flame as nothing more than tripe.

El Caballero,
I took no offense and took your post in the manner that it was posted...I was just explaining my position from my point of view...Sorry if I replied poorly.

I don't read much of this crap on shooting forums but find a lot of it on the automotive and boating ones. All of us folks that like each of these topics must be similar in nature but I enjoy the shooting forums more because of the civility.

So let's get back to the topic. There is more than one right answer to most things. Do it "My Way" but let it rest.

The late author and mental health doctor Eric Bern wrote many best sellers including "The Games People Play" and he pointed out that we all need atttention "strokes" as he called it. He made the point that when someone, frequently a child, cannot get attention by doing something good they do something bad!

Hey Jagermeister..noticed you finally spelled your name right.

Please now read Dr. DaggaRon, MD the riot act for his ignorance...thank you.