There is rumor that the State misrepresented the 314-23 elk permit in the regulations this year, and they are now in the process of arbitrarily changing the terms of the permit. If the rumor is correct, you will only be able to legally take cows from Dec 2 through Dec 15. At this late date, they are basically taking a trophy bull tag and telling folks �sorry, you really only drew a meat tag.� CP.

if you can't handle it, you can always stay in idaho.....

seriously, i do not know if the rumor is true or not, but i will try to find out. if it is true, it would also be nice to know the reason.

for elk in montana, i would think that the missouri breaks area would be more desireable anyway?

cp -

i was going to send a PM, but i don't think you have them turned on. i sent an inquiry to the montana FWP. according to their website, i should get an answer in 1-2 business days. i'll let you know what they say.

If this rumor is correct, 90% of the people that will be jammed-up by this change are Montana residents. I decided to alter my business calendar and work through the regular season, so that I could take-off the first two weeks of December for what I thought was going to be a trophy bull hunt. To complicate matters even more, my son (a Montana resident) drew this tag as well, and I was looking forward to hunting with him for the big boys. CP.

[ 09-29-2003, 08:12: Message edited by: CP ]

Well, I have a 314-23 tag and it's no rumor it's true... got a letter from FWP this week teling me of the change...

Did FWP give any reason as to the change??

Brad....... Sorry to hear the bad news!

FN in MT

i haven't received a reply yet. if true, i hope that there is some good reason for it! it is going to piss off a lot of people.

Frank, the reason stated in the letter was that it was a typo and shold have read "Dec 1 - Dec 14 Antlerless Elk." If I'd just wanted a cow tag I certainl wouldn't have applied for that particular tag

In hindsight, it's obvious that there is no way FWP would have issued 375 "Either Sex" tags for that two week period in that district.

Oh well... I plan on clobbering a big bull elsewhere now!

As of this date, the Commission has not made a final decision in this matter. I have some very strong feelings about this issue and have voiced my concerns to a number of people in State government. Regardless of where my clamoring took me over the course of the past week, I was afforded the opportunity and courtesy of being allowed to fully express my thoughts. I�ll give two gold stars to all the people that heard me out in this regard. Nevertheless, there are a number of fundamental equity issues involved in this matter, and it will be very interesting to learn how the Commission resolves them at this late date. We should all know in a week or so. CP.

375 of those permits issued. That's a bummer there was such a snafu for all you guys but it would be even more of a bummer if the FWP allows that many bulls to be killed this winter there.

Here's the article from today's front page:

www.bozemandailychronicle.com/articles/2003/10/11/news/licensebzbigs.txt

Kurt, Greg B. and I both drew this tag... neither of us would have put in for a cow tag that far from home and sacrificed points. Honestly, the longer I've thought about this the hotter I've gotten. FWP knew about this since last spring and did nothing. Then they issued the tags in August and now, possibly, want them back. I'll be contacting Kurt Alt and the comission members this week. I seriously doubt 25 bulls (let alone 375) will get killed by the holders of this tag. As you know, that country is fairly tough and the road hunters will turn up empty handed. Course, if they'd released the friggin wolves in the District of Columbia we probably wouldn't be having this conversation!

BA

[ 10-12-2003, 03:09: Message edited by: Brad ]

Brad, the following is an excerpt from my letter to the Commission:

FWP Commission
Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks
PO Box 200701
Helena, MT 59620-0701
RE: Permit 314-23

Gentlemen;

I am a non-resident holder of a 2003 Montana big game combination license. In the spring of this year, I received the official Montana big game regulation pamphlet, which provided details of the permit hunts for which drawings would be conducted for the 2003 season. The pamphlet clearly described the opportunity for licensees to apply for a late season either sex elk tag in the south half of District 314. My son called the Regional headquarters of Montana Fish Wildlife and Parks in Bozeman and discussed this hunt and the drawing odds with the personnel at that location. Subsequently, both my son and I applied for the 314-23 permit and were advised in writing that we were successful in the drawing for same. After receiving my permit in the mail, I rescheduled my business affairs to have the period of December 2nd thru 14Th available for what I regarded as a once in a lifetime opportunity to harvest a trophy size bull elk. The rescheduling of my personal commitments now precludes me from hunting in the general season in Montana. At the time, I certainly felt that the hunting opportunity afforded by this permit more than offset the loss of hunting privileges in the general season.

I received a form letter on September 29, 2003 that advised me that the FWP Commission was contemplating dropping the either sex provision of this Permit. It is incomprehensible to me that the Department could publish a detailed permit prospectus in the regulations over 6 months ago, provide verbal confirmation of the details at the headquarters level regarding this permit, conduct a drawing this summer for the permit as written in the regulations, send written confirmation of the either sex provision to the successful applicants, and then in the 11th hour advise permit holders that there was an �error in the regulations.� Obviously, the Department had numerous opportunities to correct this alleged error in the regulations. In light of the process, the time that has elapsed and the commitments made by all the parties involved in this matter, it is simply improper and unreasonable for the FWP Commission to arbitrarily strip away the essence and value of this permit.

I am convinced that conducting this hunt as outlined in the regulations would not adversely affect the elk herds in the permit area. However, I also respect the view to the contrary that is held by some of the Department�s personnel. By way of compromise, I respectfully request that the FWP Commission allow the either sex harvest to go forward from Dec. 8th to Dec. 12th. Thank you in advance for considering my proposed compromise solution to this issue. CP.

So your proposed compromise is for the FWP to allow the hunt, but just on the days you've personally planned?

No. I had arranged to take-off work the 1st thru the 14th. However, I am prepared to give-up half of my time to make this work for the FWP. CP.

It sucks that it was a typo, but the sad thing is the people that put in for it should have known better...

I think there about 3 areas that give out late season bull tags (Gardiner about 65, Gallitin about 10, and the Madisons 5)... At a total of about 80 for the ENTIRE state... 375 for that one area... hmmmm

Did the people that put in actually think that the state would throw their elk management out the window and give away 4 times as many late season bull tags as usual? I would have looked into it before I went a head and put in.

The regs state on the bottom of the third page...

"These regulations are adopted under the authority granted to the Fish, Wildlife & Parks Commission in (FWPC) section 87-1-301, MCA and are valid March 1, 2003 through February 29, 2004. These regulations were adopted by the FWPC on February 12, 2003. However, season quotas are tentative and may be subject to commission changes. The Commission reserves the authority to amend the seasons, limits and regulations herein if deemed necessary for wildlife management purposes. Jeff Hagener, Director."

Looks to me like the ball is in their court...

Ivan

Elk management,what the fuck is that? Flying over them with an airplane and making a rough count.

With as many employees as the state has,they surely could have had somebody proof read the regs. Like a biologist or somebody involved with quota setting,who would have noticed the obvious error. But thats why they have disclaimer "all of our fuck ups are on you". Plus they sold a bunch of tags regardless.