Just as rifle and bow hunters have catagories for record head keeping so do the black powder buffs. That still does not change the fact that B+C still will lists the #1 head taken by any means in their record book. The fact that Jim Shocky took an exceptional animal with his black powder rifle that may qualify for the B+C record books, but will not replace the highest scoring Bull Elk rack head now listed as the #1 head. Had the animal Shocky harvested with his black powder rifle scored higher than the #1 head now listed in the Roosevelt Elk catagory by any means taken in Boone+Crockets record book, would his Elk rack replace the #1 head.

Your post makes it known you don't like Jim Shocky for his good fortune in the field. I applaud Jim Shocky, he harvested a fine specimen with a black powder rifle. Only the final net score of the rack, the fact that the animal was harvested under the rules of fare chase, with all the proper tags in place. Like it or not Shocky took a fine Bull Elk with his black powder rifle that qualifies for entry into the B+C record books in the black powdewr catagory after the mandatory 60 day drying period. Any hunter who harvests a psssible record head must fill out a form with B+C, pay the entry fee, then wait the mandatory 60 days drying period. Then the hunter must present the rack for measurement when B+C contacts them to have the rack scored by offical B+C measurers. Since B+C does not up date their printed record book yearly, it is possible the current listed world recod head may not be listed until the new record book is printed. In records keeping, it takes time and much energy by many. Since record heads are few and far between, those record heads now listed are seldom eclipsed, and when they are it is by very small measurements. It takes one tremendous animal to become the #1 listed head in the world in any given catagory in the B+C record books.

The current world record #1 Roosevel Elk rack was harvested by Wayne Coe 388 3/8" and will remain the number one head unless Jim shocky's Bull scores higher. The Boone + Crocket organization has a long, above reproach history, and are certain to maintain that level of integrity. If any hunter has a rack listed in the B+C record books, it is certain the animal was harvested legally observing all the rules of fare chase hunting.

I dont have a problem with blackpowder records but I do have a problem with inlines being considered.They are as accurate and powerful as many centerfires.w/regards

You have a problem with inline muzzle loaders for what reason? The inline black powder rifle must be loaded from the muzzle just as any older or period correct black powder rifles must be loaded. The only difference is in the type of ignition system to ignite the black powder charge. As long as the rifle must be charged from the muzzle, no matter how that charge is ignited, it is still a muzzle loading rifle. Inlines are no more powerful than the older period correct rifles, just more effective at longer ranges by virtue of their higher FPS muzzle velocity and flatter trajectory.

The inline muzzle loader rifles shoot lighter weight bullets with palstic sabot sleeves instead of the cloth patched round ball. The sabot 260 grain copper clad lighter weight bullets shoot flatter and their maximum effective range can be increased. The new stronger metals being used can with stand more pressure and powder charges are higher than with the older period correct black powder rifles. There are no new hunting laws in place that state you may not use your period correct black powder rifles to hunt game. If you consider the inline black powder rifle illegal then the period correct black powder rifle is also illegal, since it must be loaded from the muzzle.

My stance on that issue is the more choices the hunter has in his choice of hunting rifles to harvest game all the better for us. There is plenty of room on this planet for both types of muzzle loading rifles. If the rifle must be loaded from the muzzle, using black powder as the propellant, then it is a muzzle loading rifle plain and simple. These rediculious symanctics as to period correct muzzle loading hunting rifles will only result in laws resricting their use that will harm all black powder fire arms users. You should be damn glad they reinvented the black powder muzzle loading rifle, and called it the inline muzzle loader as we all have benefitted from that new inovation to ignite black powder more efficiently in a rifle.


Those older slow velocity 45, 50, 54, 58, etc. caliber 400 plus grain Maxi-Balls are deadly at close range and will produce devastating wounds on any game animal they strike. Those old period correct black powder rifles are still in use today and will take any game animal you care to hunt. I just don't see what the problem is using an inline muzzle loader to hunt any game animal. If it works better, is more reliable, why not use it.

A gun writer, who has the pending world record,Anything.

Like most of us have the opportunities to hunt where these people do and as often. These guys get to hunt more in a year than most of us have the time to, or can afford to hunt in a lifetime.

So Jim Shockey was just out hunting casually and low and behold, lucked upon, and with daring skill and cunning, outwitted this huge Roosevelt Elk,

I am sure he had no guide to have it located for him, I am sure he had no guide to haul it out for him once he cut it up, and I am sure that he must have been paying someone big bucks out of his own pocket to be able to hunt where a potential trophy like this was living.

Makes you often wonder if these animals are not really domestically bred for this type of hype on an Animal farm, then let loose in the " wild" hours before the hunt, and are doped up with a hypodermic needle first so they won't wander too far. Some outfit, who stands to benefit from this "accomplishment" has paid out big bucks to put this all together. Makes me wonder if they just did not go out and tie the Elk to a tree and drive Jim up in the Range Rover, let him walk 50 yrds out in the field after putting on his "LatestCamoGear.com" outfit, and shoot this half drugged animal to begin with.

My congrats to Jim Shockey if he earned it, but I doubt if he did.

If its not fair chase, B&C will not accept it.
Deep pockets probably helped his cause...I say congrats, just the same.

Want a little cheese with that whine. Good grief.

Count me in as anti inline "muzzleloader". I could care less if they were used during the regular rifle season but in many states the muzzleloader seasons are during the RUT.

The average inline has almost nothing (OK you do load your sabot and powder pellets from the MUZZLE) in common with the traditional muzzleloaders that were in vogue when many of these "primitive" seasons were instituted many years ago.

I can't understand how a Rem 700 bolt rifle, with a modern scope, shooting a sabot with a jacketed bullet is PRIMITIVE.

IMHO the primitive seasons should be REAL muzzleloaders.

FN in MT

Here in BC, we have Jim Shockey overload! He's everywhere!

But he is a real huter, that cut his teeth hunting in Canada, and he genuinely figured out a way to make a good living from what he loves the most.

Without a doubt, he is good at self promotion. I don't know any good business men that are not.

he has hunted harder, longer and tougher than most of the people that are on this forum, myself included.

When he decided to go to a muzzleloader, he intentionally handicapped himself, as many muzzleloaders have done. I've read many stories of his that explained that he would have taken a shot if he had a centrefire, but he would not take it with a muzzleloader.

One I read as about a grizzly hunt. He had tried for 10 years to get a grizzly under the right conditions, but when the chips were down, he told his cousin (riding shotgun with a .338) to take the shot, because he wasn't comfortabel with a muzzleloader in those circumstances. What would that have been like? Hunting for 10 years and then passing?

Sure, the inlines are 'better' than the old style. No doubt about it. But they still run out of 'oomph' somewhere around 200 yards, and that still handicaps you.

Shockey doesn't make up the rules by which scores are entered, by the way...

Although I get Shockey 'overload' I still think he is the real thing- He is a guide, outfitter, adn hunter.

If he's been able to do trips we can only dream of, more power to him. I'd be happy to hang around a fire with him anyday.

I bet if he was 'just' a guide/outfitter that wsn't a writer/public figure, noone would be making any disparaging remarks about him....

I just don't understand the inline/traditional muzzleloader thing. If you have 2 .50 cal muzzle loaders one is a modern made sidelock and the other is a modern inline both will take 150 grains of powder and both shooting the same sabots. I'm betting the difference between the 2 on a chronograph would be measured in a few FPS. If both had the same sights I don't see any advantage with the exception of more positive ignition. Rich