PUBLIC INPUT NEEDED - COMMENT HERE:

http://www.in.gov/nrc/2386.htm (Choose “Deer Amendments” from the drop down list)

LET YOUR VOICE BE HEARD, IT’S NOT TOO LATE!

KEEP THIS E-MAIL ROLLING! FORWARD TO ALL YOU KNOW WHO HUNT DEER IN INDIANA!



Deer-hunting rules changes gain preliminary approval

The Indiana Natural Resources Commission gave preliminary approval yesterday to a comprehensive package of proposed changes to deer-hunting rules in Indiana.

The DNR Division of Fish and Wildlife developed the rules proposal to focus deer-herd reduction in a strategically targeted manner to more adequately balance the ecological, recreational and economic needs of the state’s citizens.

Key points of the proposal include:

– Shortening the deer firearms season to nine days beginning the Saturday before Thanksgiving

–Adding a two-day antlerless-only firearms season in October in counties that have a bonus antlerless quota of four or more

–Adding a statewide antlerless-only firearms season from Dec. 25 to Jan. 1

–Shortening the muzzleloader season to nine days

–Extending the urban zone season through Jan. 31

–Allowing the use of crossbows during archery season by hunters 64 years old or older

–Allowing the use of crossbows by hunters of any age during firearms season

–Allowing a hunter of any age to use a crossbow in an urban deer zone during the urban deer season

–Requiring hunters to take at least one antlerless deer prior to taking an antlered deer in an urban deer zone

A complete summary of the proposed changes is at http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/2362.htm

why are these changes a problem?

Do you feed your family with Indiana deer?

quote:

Originally posted by ManCannon:
Do you feed your family with Indiana deer?

Kind of a rude response to someone that is only asking a question. Ravenr is from WY, he most likely isn't too familiar with the hunting regulations in IN. Maybe that's why he asking why the changes are a problem. After all, shouldn't he at least be told what the current situation is?

You come on the forum asking folks to roger up and "LET YOUR VOICE BE HEARD, IT’S NOT TOO LATE!" Yet, when he asks just what it is you want to be heard, you have to get cocky.

Like Ravenr, I'd like to know what the problem is. In my home state of Colorado, I'm limited to a single deer. Don't matter if it's a buck or doe, one is all I get. And our rifle seasons are only 5-7 days long. Just looking at what the proposed changes are you listed, they look pretty generous to me.

So, I'd also like to know just what you're bitching about and what kind of input you're asking for.

And I don't hunt Indiana deer, but my brother in law and nephews do and I'd be happy to put some input in on their behalf if you'd act grown up and answer the man's question.

If you can't or won't answer his question, then I'm going to have to tell you to piss off.

MAC, I'm not joining in your pissing match. Sorry.

The problem is that special interest groups are playing with the rules to try and generate trophy bucks. Indiana's deer season has been 15 days of firearms and 15 days of muzzleloader for as long as I've been hunting in Indiana, more than 20 years. The Indiana DNR surveyed Indiana hunters asking questions about changing certain rules. The majority of reponses, nearly 10,000 hunters, "strongly opposed" these date changes, yet the IDNR ignores this. If you hunt deer in Indiana or know of people who do, voice your opinion, one way or another. Just don't sit back and let special interest groups dictate your hunting season.

See how easy that was?

And, for your information, I'm not trying to get in a pissing contest, just pointing out that your comment to Ravenr was rude. You want input, tell the whole story, don't try to shut someone down when they ask for clarification.

Still not really sure what your major complaint is though. You get to take multiple deer and by using a special 2 day antlerless hunt in some counties, a 6 day antlerless hunt from Dec 25 to Jan 1, a 9 day firearms hunt and a 9 day muzzleloader hunt and you come up with 26 days of deer hunting vice 30 days of deer hunting.

Most western states get less than half that number of days to hunt and don't get mulitple deer. So, it sounds like you still have a pretty good deal.

It appears to be a net gain in hunting days, but some people just want what they always had, whether it is working or not. The two seasons that ManCannon highlighted are 15 days each now instead of 9. So they will add 8 days in December for firearms and 30 in the urban zones and an additional 2-day season in some counties. I can see that it is geared to increase doe harvest and that is a good thing.

It appears to increase doe harvest, but this will likely not be the case. Urban zones are bow only, the 2 day season in October only applies to limited counties, and the late season is the toughest time of year in the state for deer hunting. For average "Joe Hunter" in Indiana, this means less time to take a deer, with more emphasis on taking a buck in a more limited amount of time. Doe harvest is going to suffer, no doubt.

My main beef with this is that the IDNR sent out a survey asking hunters input and they're ignoring it. FACT - The majority of Indiana hunters do not support these changes.

That would be a compelling statement except that it is the opposite of the results in every state that did it. Missouri opened for more antlerless and limited the number of bucks. Kansas opens deer season in December for rifles well after the rut has peaked and also opened muzzleloader season early. Nebraska opened areas for more does in an effort called "season chioce" that is doe only and a large January season and guess what....they all have a larger doe harvest. It seams that not ALL deer hunters are buck or trophy hunters and are glad to have the extra time.

And that is just the three I know of personally. But then I am not a gloom and doom guy.

If I was really concerned about feeding my family on Indiana deer, I'd never waste a minute trying to fill a buck tag. Give me a couple of doe tags and I'd be happy as hell. After all, when you get right down to it, all you can do with antlers from a culinary aspect is stir the stew with them.

Never quite understood all the guys that complain about how the decrease in buck hunting will somehow mean they can no longer feed their families with venison always negate to acknowledge all the increased opportunities to take does. If they're really after meat, they'd be targeting does in the first place.

Just my humple opinion. Feel free to disagree. But the posted complaint seems without bearing from my point of view.

Where did I say I was a buck hunter? Answer: no where.

Do I hunt bucks? Sure, but not exclusively. I'm a meat hunter, I shoot whatever deer walks in front of me as long as I've got the tags.

I've got one trophy deer on the wall, 160 class buck taken in 2002 from a family farm. I let several deer walk off, waiting on "the big one" that year. That's the only time that's ever happened.

Reread my post and you'll find that I'm not bitching about the number of deer I can take. I'm bitching because the Indiana DNR asked for Indiana Hunters' opinions and then ignored them.

My point - If you hunt deer in Indiana, you should be aware of this potential rule change. You also have the ability to comment on this rule change before it becomes law. For those that don't hunt deer in Indiana, this post isn't for you.

You keep saying that the state didn't listen to the hunters. Matter of fact, you have mentioned that 10,000 hunters responded that they didn't want the changes.

But, you fail to say how many did want the changes. Did they only poll those 10,000? Or, did they poll 50,000 and 40,000 said they did want the changes? So far, all you've given is your particular take on it.

Have all the other hunters in Indiana elected you as their spokesman? Or is it even slightly possible that a lot of hunters are happy with the proposed changes? Maybe you're in the minority on this.

Results from Indiana Deer Hunting Survey
25 May 2010 | Indiana Outdoors News | Tags: hunting, Indiana, Indiana DNR, news, outdoor news, whitetail deer, wildlife management

Two out of three people responding to a recent Department of Natural Resources online survey said they use both archery and firearms to hunt deer, and 91 percent said they would be willing to harvest one or more additional antlerless deer if money were not an issue.

Respondents also expressed strong support for a variety of license packages, including a “sportsman’s bundle” that would include one archery, one firearms, one muzzleloader and one bonus antlerless license for $72. To purchase each of those licenses separately under the current setup would cost $96.

The survey, conducted by the DNR Division of Fish & Wildlife, is part of a process to review and revise Indiana’s deer management strategy. After meeting with a stakeholder committee, the DFW asked deer hunters and landowners to complete the online questionnaire pertaining to deer season structure and equipment use.

A total of 9,516 responses were received.

“Because online surveys pose several problems in obtaining scientifically valid results, this questionnaire will be best served as a general indicator for gauging public support or opposition for various deer regulation alternatives,” said Mark Reiter, director of the Division of Fish & Wildlife. “The DFW will be using this information, along with input from a deer stakeholder committee and public input given as part of the administrative rule process, to promulgate a deer rule package.”

The questionnaire was available online from April 19-25. Questions were formatted based on suggestions and recommendations from the deer stakeholder committee to meet the objective of focused deer herd reduction in a strategically targeted manner that would more adequately balance ecological, recreational and economic needs of the citizens of Indiana.

Before being placed online, the questionnaire was reviewed by a social scientist from Purdue University’s Department of Forestry and Natural Resources to ensure the integrity of each question.

The questionnaire was designed using an online provider (www.surveymonkey.com).

Slightly more than 93 percent of the survey respondents said they were Indiana deer hunters while 4.6 said they were not and just over 2 percent left the question blank.

Approximately 5,300 respondents identified themselves as resident license buyers; 2,600 as lifetime license buyers; 700 as landowners exempt from license purchase; 300 non-resident license buyers; 50 youth license buyers, and 10 military-exempt license holders.

Additional survey results showed that:

–Eight of 10 respondents said they use shotguns to hunt deer; 74 percent use archery equipment, 71 percent muzzleloader, 20 percent handguns, 19 percent rifles, and 10 percent crossbows. Of those respondents, 27.5 percent said they use only firearms, and nearly 5 percent said they use only archery equipment.

–Total responses favored the current opening date for firearms season. Moving the opening date one week later ranked second, with strong opposition to moving it two weeks later.

–Total responses strongly favored no change to the structure of firearms and muzzleloader seasons, and strongly opposed any choice with fewer days to hunt.

–Total responses supported all options for a strategically targeted antlerless-only firearms season, with most supporting a two-day October season.

–Total responses supported expanding the use of crossbows in the early archery season for hunters age 65 and older. Use in urban deer zones ranked second, followed by expansion into firearms season, and expansion into all of the early archery season.

–Respondents expressed strong support for several proposed license packages. The greatest support (75 percent) was for a reduced-cost bonus antlerless license available for early purchase, followed by a “sportsman’s bundle” mentioned previously (71 percent approval). Other options were two bonus antlerless licenses for $34 (66 percent approval) and three bonus antlerless licenses for $49 (58 percent approval). Fifteen percent of respondents did not support any of the license packages.

–Asked how many additional antlerless deer they would be willing to harvest if money were not an issue, nine percent said zero, 17 percent one, 32 percent two, 15 percent three, 9 percent four, and 17 percent more than four.

–Respondents identified the cost of additional licenses as the most likely reason they do not harvest an additional deer. Other factors influencing antlerless harvest include processing costs, and no need for an additional deer. Items not perceived to be a hindrance are lack of hunting time, deer herd ability to support additional take, and meat storage capacity.

For more information: Chad Stewart, Division of Fish and Wildlife, (812) 334-1137.

Comments/questions may be sent to INDeerSurvey@dnr.in.gov.

About Fish and Wildlife Management in Indiana
Fish and wildlife management and public access are funded by fishing and hunting license revenue and also through the Sport Fish and Wildlife Restoration Programs administered by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. These programs collect excise taxes on sporting arms and ammunition, archery equipment, fishing equipment, and motor boat fuels. The money is distributed among state fish and wildlife agencies based on land size and the number of licensed anglers and hunters in each state. Find out more information about fish and wildlife management in Indiana at www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/.

quote:

–Total responses strongly favored no change to the structure of firearms and muzzleloader seasons, and strongly opposed any choice with fewer days to hunt.

But are there actually fewer days to hunt?

What about this from your original post

quote:

–Adding a two-day antlerless-only firearms season in October in counties that have a bonus antlerless quota of four or more

–Adding a statewide antlerless-only firearms season from Dec. 25 to Jan. 1

–Extending the urban zone season through Jan. 31

It looks to me like that more than makes up for the 12 days being cut from the firearm and muzzleloader seasons. Most states have regualtions that specify a certain number of days for hunting season. Common sense dictates that is they extend a season in one direction, such as extending antlerless hunting through the end of Jan, they need to cut it somewhere else. Few people get to have their cake and eat it too. To get something, you have to give up something and the survey specifically notes that increasing antlerless hunting was very desireable:

quote:

–Asked how many additional antlerless deer they would be willing to harvest if money were not an issue, nine percent said zero, 17 percent one, 32 percent two, 15 percent three, 9 percent four, and 17 percent more than four.

And the survey only had 9516 responses. It notes that the responses "strongly favor no changes" but it does not define exactly what that means. There could have been as few as 5000 respones in that direction to allow that statement to be correct.

How many people hunt deer in Indiana on a yearly basis? 100,000? 150,000? Based on this single point of information it is impossible to determine what the actual majority think. Less than 10,000 simply isn't sufficient to prove your case.

By the way, just how many deer can you legally take in Indiana under the current regulation and how many can you take under the proposed regulations? After all, you blasted Ravenr by asking if he feeds his family on Indiana deer. If the new regulations allow you to take more deer, then your entire arguement is moot.

MAC, if you want to know more, research the topic.

For those that hunt deer in Indiana, you already know what's involved, and the message has been passed along.

Signing off of this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by ManCannon:
MAC, if you want to know more, research the topic.

For those that hunt deer in Indiana, you already know what's involved, and the message has been passed along.

Signing off of this thread.

I have absolutely zero interest in researching the topic and no desire to know more. I was simply asking you to support your allegations and claims. And in the process, took you to task for being rude to a longtime member.

Remember, it was you that came here asking for people to roger up to support a stance that appears, on the surface, to be unsupportable. Nobody came to you, you came to them.

I live in Indiana and support the changes. I've hunted deer here for 30 years (I'm 40). We kill entirely too many 1.5-2.5 year old bucks currently. Our gun season is in the middle of the rut. I'm all for shooting more doe's - I also don't have an issue with a kid shooting a 2 year old 6 pointer. But really, why shoot a buck before he has a chance to grow up?

As to the survey - it's neither scientific nor representative (not a random sample). 6,500 hunters (2/3rds of 9,000+ responses) are not anywhere near a majority of the 80,000+ deer tags we sell here per year.

For the record, I'm neither a "trophy hunter" nor a "special interest group" - just a guy who knows a little about deer hunting and supports these change.

I do not hunt Indiana and have no skin in the game.I do not like Antler or age restrictions.I have no problem with shooting more does.Too many people are hung up on inches of antler.Thats not what hunting is about.I familiar with special interest groups wanting to change Fish and Game laws for no biological reason. Only that they want bigger what ever they are pursuing.My 2 cents

quote:

Originally posted by Neil A:
I live in Indiana and support the changes. I've hunted deer here for 30 years (I'm 40). We kill entirely too many 1.5-2.5 year old bucks currently. Our gun season is in the middle of the rut. I'm all for shooting more doe's - I also don't have an issue with a kid shooting a 2 year old 6 pointer. But really, why shoot a buck before he has a chance to grow up?

As to the survey - it's neither scientific nor representative (not a random sample). 6,500 hunters (2/3rds of 9,000+ responses) are not anywhere near a majority of the 80,000+ deer tags we sell here per year.

For the record, I'm neither a "trophy hunter" nor a "special interest group" - just a guy who knows a little about deer hunting and supports these change.

Well Neil A, with all due respect, I too, have hunted deer in Indiana for well over 30 yrs.[59 yrs. old]. I disagree with a couple of your statements. Normally, the opening of firearms season is at the peak of the rut, and not in the middle. Also, the state sells well over 200,000 licenses in the state, not 80,000+. Our kills have been over 100,000 several times.

The states premise is to kill more deer, but shortening both the firearms season and the muzzleloading season is not a means to that end. Don't have a problem with the late firearms antlerless season, but do have some issues with firearms, in the middle of the early bow season. Haven't quite figured out why the crossbow hasn't been legalized for all season.

Instead of catering to "stakeholders" and special interest groups, I think the state should have contacted all previous year license holders, and lifetime license holders, with a questionaire, to more adequately assess the herd reduction.

Mad Dog