A voter-approved price increase for some Montana nonresident hunting licenses is being blamed for about 1,200 big game combination licenses remaining for sale after the March 15 application deadline.

Yet 7,500 nonresidents applied for licenses to hunt deer. Only 4,600 such licenses are available.

"Obviously the price is an issue," said Ron Aasheim, Fish, Wildlife and Parks' bureau chief. "Last year we had about 8,000 people who didn't draw. This year we're under by about 1,200."

About 15,800 nonresidents applied for the 17,000 big game or elk combination licenses for the upcoming season. That means that every hunter who applied for either the $912 nonresident big game combination license, or the $812 elk combo license will receive one. Last year, more than 19,000 nonresidents applied for similar tags.

The remaining 1,200 nonresident big game combination licenses will be sold online only on a first-come, first-serve basis beginning April 18. The big-game combo includes licenses to hunt elk, deer and upland game birds and a season fishing license. The elk combo includes all of the same licenses except for deer.

"We're confident that we'll sell out again this year," said Hank Worsech, license bureau chief for Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks, in a statement. "People are already sending in applications trying to get a jump on things, but in the interest of fairness, we'll return them and ask those folks to reapply because they essentially missed the original deadline."

Meanwhile, more than 7,550 nonresidents applied for 4,600 combination deer licenses, which also saw a bump in price to $542 for the upcoming season. Because only 4,600 deer combo licenses are available by Montana law, those licenses will be awarded via a drawing on April 11. Last year, more than 11,500 nonresidents applied for the same license.

Last November, voters approved an initiative that moved 7,800 outfitter-sponsored big game and deer combination licenses to the general nonresident license category and increased the associated license fees. The fee increases bumped the nonresident big-game combination license fee from $643 up to $912; a nonresident deer combination license fee rose from $343 to $542; and a nonresident elk combination license fee went from $593 to $812.

The outfitter-sponsored licenses had not sold out in the previous two years by the deadline, either, Aasheim said, although most were sold prior to the season beginning.

Nonresident hunters who wish to apply for one of the remaining big game combo or elk licenses must apply via the FWP website at fwp.mt.gov beginning April 18.

The revenue generated by the increased license fees is earmarked for wildlife habitat conservation and public hunting access programs. The fee increases only apply to nonresident combination licenses. Other nonresident licenses are not affected.

Can we say Cluster_ _ _ _!!!!!!

I bet they sell buy season time. By my quick math the state made about more money selling less licences. Is that a cluster?

as much as i love montanna their success rate on elk is awfully low especially for the $$ they charge. I just can't help but wonder how long it will take governments to kill the goose that laid the golder egg

quote:

Is that a cluster?

Yes it is, due the the money the state has to spend getting the situation straightened out.

All that paperwork and stuff causes more man hours work.

That is a cluster.

Had they have left things the way they were, they would not be needing all that extra labor getting things fixed.

It is what the Residents of Montana wanted.They voted it in.I think its the best thing since sliced bread.I now have better than a 50-50 chance to draw a Deer tag this year.If I dont,I will throw in for the Elk Tag,so I can deer hunt!!!!

It's what they think they wanted..........Before Nonresident Out fitter tags were only good for the areas Outfitters had leased,or their concessions. Now those hunters can hunt any place that is open to the public on private lands (Block management etc).
Montana couldent sell all their non resident tags last year before the season opened. More wolves,higher license costs. A cluster is what it looks like to me........

A big name outfitter for deer in Unit 700 called me in early March trying to get me to come out for whitetails and/mulies near miles City like I have done a few times in past years. He said about tags, "Oh you'll get one apply for the combo elk tag it's only $900+ plus and toss the elk tag ". I just laughed and hung up!!

quote:

Originally posted by 2th doc:
A big name outfitter for deer in Unit 700 called me in early March trying to get me to come out for whitetails and/mulies near miles City like I have done a few times in past years. He said about tags, "Oh you'll get one apply for the combo elk tag it's only $900+ plus and toss the elk tag ". I just laughed and hung up!!

You know in some areas of eastern Montana there is some really Big Mule deer, we have 2 ranches where you can expect to take 160-180 inch mule deer and every year we pull off a 200 inch deer, so for the price of the tag and the hunt you can expect to pay $1000-$2000 less than other places like Colorado or Arizona and you can hunt every year rather than accumulating points and not hunting.

Brian: I hunt with Perkins Outfitters out of Miles City, I know Bill and his dad Ray for several years but a deer hunt is $4K for 4 days add the tag close to $1k, rnd trip air $6-700, etc and I'll have well over $6000 into killing "ANOTHER" mulie from 170-200"...I could spend that much and do another plains game hunt in Africa "WITH" air for 4-5 great animals all in for 7 or 8 days.I've dne it 3 times before.
My comment about laughing was pointed towards the ridiculous price for a combo elk tag in Montana......some hunters may jump on them willing to spend that scalper's fee but I won't anymore. Let the residents whom voted for the hikes ontop of already high tag fees pay for their own game management.

quote:

Originally posted by 2th doc:
Brian: I hunt with Perkins Outfitters out of Miles City, I know Bill and his dad Ray for several years but a deer hunt is [B]$4K for 4 days add the tag close to $1k, rnd trip air $6-700, etc and I'll have well over $6000 into killing "ANOTHER" mulie from 170-200"...B]I could spend that much and do another plains game hunt in Africa "WITH" air for 4-5 great animals all in for 7 or 8 days.I've dne it 3 times before.
My comment about laughing was pointed towards the ridiculous price for a combo elk tag in Montana......some hunters may jump on them willing to spend that scalper's fee but I won't anymore. Let the residents whom voted for the hikes ontop of already high tag fees pay for their own game management.

Thats not really cheaper than CO, especially considering that the "average" buck in CO is better than the "average" buck in Montana

My point was that yes it's a few hundred dollars more than a deer tag, but it's an opportunity to go hunting, How many people are complaining of point creeps, states adding that you must buy a license now just to be in the drawing. There are alot of people out there that still want to hunt "ANOTHER mullie from 170-200" and this gives them a opportunity where it might take years to accumulate the points needed to hunt.

You can hunt every year in CO if you hunt the right areas

That is true, But you and Aaron drive to fast to find the good areas

The money to straighten out what mess? Those people in the office get paid whether there is paper to be straightened out or not.

Like others has mentioned the residents don't have as much competition and the state made just as much money, actually more.

And again, I would bet that those left over tags get sold.

Can you say . . .ChaaaChing!

Montana priced me out along time ago, and the market has decided that that's OK. I'm ok with it.

The market will sort it out. Eventually.

I think it's good that the outfitters don't get the preference anymore. Why should they?

Maybe the higher prices didn't effect the sales but that there are less elk. The wolves ate them all, right?

Maybe they got it right with the whole supply and demand. Supply of elk that is.

quote:

The money to straighten out what mess? Those people in the office get paid whether there is paper to be straightened out or not.

Yes, but they will be being paid for extra work that would not have been necessary had things not been changed.

Those state workers have already been paid to get things set up for the season, now they are going to have to go back in, scrap all that work and basically start over.

Dear non-resident booking agents, yes you know who, go Cluster-F*** yourself.

The reason the people of the state of Montana voted to increase fees and kick the outfitters out of the "Gaur-un-teed" license business is because since we the people made the deal with the Devil on these type of licenses guess what? MORE land got tied up in leases! Surprise, Surprise! Block Management? JOKE. The only BM land worth a crap is the stuff that has only antelope on it, why? Because the scum-bag outfitters were never allowed to get all the licenses they could sell as with elk and especially deer. If they had I absolutely know that they would have leased most of the land with antelope on it also.

I was a licensed outfitter here in Montana for 10 years and worked with the Montana Board of Outfitters on some "quality control" issues. I can say that the "Out of Africa" group the safari hunters like to complain about has nothing on some of the scum-bags I came into contact with. Less outfitters equals better hunting for everyone, yes even the non-residents. Plus nothing is stopping anyone from booking a trip with their favorite outfitter. And maybe he'll do a better job since if he fails to produce you can go and hunt by yourself. For the money these guys charge you can lease a couple of weeks on some nice property.

Will this hurt FWP's buget? Probably not in the long run, there is a recession going on. Most if not all the remaining licenses with sell off by the begining of hunting season. Never mind if they do since we've already made more money, which was the whole point!

Will it make for better hunting for resident hunters? It might. The fact IS that the present system was not and that is the reason for the change.

.

Dear HunterMontana DumbAss, I don't book hunts anywhere but in Texas, if I am going to hunt in Montana I will hunt with a guide up there.

Now pull your stupid head out of your stinking ass.

I just made the comment that by changing up things the way they did, it created confusion and more work to straighten things out than was necessary.

Now that you have showed your total ignorance and made comments about something you did not know one thing about, crawl back under your rock.

I ain't a booking agent DS, never have been, never will be, and I damn sure would not be one anywhere but in Texas.

I like to hunt, and I like to hunt with the people I book. I don't get off on the idea of setting on my ass selling hunts to folks and not getting to be there for the fun.

Please let me know if there is any of what I said you do not understand, Okay?

The "outfitters are the devil" arguments are funny.

What irks me is the huge difference in the cost of a resident vs. non resident tag be it elk or deer. Without looking it up I'd feel safe in saying a resident of Mt. could buy an elk and deer permit for around $45 or less plus the cost of a general tag and Conservation tag, etc. then go hunt on "PUBLIC" BLM land (yes not every nonresident hunts leased private land). Now look at the cost to the nonresident to hunt that very same "PUBLIC" land. Yet as a rule resident hunters sneer at the nonresidents thinking we're killing all the game off, Bull SHIT!!!!
Who owns the BLM land? Why isn't there a seperate tag structure for private land vs. Federal land????? Because the residents support a game program that gouges the nonresident to fund their game management, that's why. I agree Mt. isn't alone in this most if not all staes do the same thing. I've reached the point in my life where I could buy premium tags at premium rates but have chosen not to do so anymore. I'll take my hunting dollars to Canada, Mexico and Africa where they are appreciated an the "non resident" in happily welcomed by residents rather than sneered upon.

My 2 cents.I have been hunting Montana since the late 60`s.Rules have changed ,come and gone but really Montana has not changed that much except by the mountains.As a non resident I have hunted Elk and deer and Antelope with good success do it your self.A lot of the places I used to hunt were taken over by Outfitters.But thinking from the landowners point of view ,I could understand it.As of late Some Outfitters have been so bold as to try and kick us off public land.I had to get law enforcement involved twice to set them straight.That is why this law made me happier than a pig in shit.I will pay the extra money and smile.Wait a year or two and you will see that all these tags will be sold.I would sure miss hunting there and after guys cool down they will come back.I do not only hunt public land,but have made many friends over the years that let me hunt their property.It is not hard to get permission to hunt as most folks welcome you if you act decent and responsible.Like I said my 2 cents!!!

Are these non-resident tags good state wide, public lands of course?

quote:

Originally posted by Slowpoke Slim:
Are these non-resident tags good state wide, public lands of course?

Answered my own question off of the website.

Humm,
Well let's see: 2th doc, public land, mostly BLM and USFS, amounts to about 2.3% of Pa. and about 26.5% of Montana, how about we confiscate about 24.2% of the land in Pa. and give it to the Feds? If that's OK with you then we can talk about how unfair it is for Mt to charge so much to hunt "your" land. Since that's not about to happen, please take your money and attitude somewhere else.

CrazyA**H***, you'd only hunt Mt with an outfitter? Is that because the only way you know how to "hunt" is behind a high fence with the animal drugged? Just asking... Oh, in case you ever have woundered why the first reaction of many Montana residents to a truck with Texas license plates is to take a box knife to the tires, just a hint, it's people like you. I don't know what I'm talking about? My god you are a arrogant prick, are you related to Barry O? I don't tell you how to run things in Texas, but you seem to know think the sh*t that comes out of your brain passes for information that is pure enlightenment from Above for the rest of us. Have you actually been to Montana? Know anything about the long running problems here with the outfitting industry, which is the problem by the way it has become an "industry". Or are you just a know-it-all? So, crawl back under your cow-pie and tell yourself how smart you are.

OLBIKER, you are the type of non-resident that Montana residents love to have come here, thanks for coming, please come again. Your comments regarding having outfitters trying to kick you off public land underscore my point. This is NOT a rare event. It was a yearly ritual for my friends that hunted in the Broadus area, and close to every resident Montana hunter has had the same thing happen to them at some time. The number of complaints to the Board of Outfitters, every year, on this subject is stunning. In 1992 I told a group from MOGA that if their attitude did not change eventually their ability to do business in Montana would be eliminated or sharply curtailed. I was brushed off, not going to happen they said. Not so much anymore. IF the industry doesn't start cleaning it's own house, this will require a public majority on the Board of Outfitters unfortunately, this will not be the last ballot measure to knock the outfitters down a couple of clicks.

HunterMontana you are a dumb son of a bitch.

I spent a few days in Montana this past September and for a while back in 2000, saw or talked with no one that had an attitude like you seem to.

They were all, nice friendly people.

Also SFB, I don't hunt high fence stuff here in Texas, unless you would count culling does off a high fenced alfalfa field for a few days every year hunting, I don't I call it killing, pure and simple.

I have hunted Colorado/Wyoming/New Mexico/Idaho/Nebraska/Texas and twice in Canada, once in Newfoundland and once in Nunavut.

Notice dickless, I said hunted, all low fenced free range animals on either private property or on National Forest/BLM land.

With the exception of the deer killing on the alfalfa field, all of the hunting I do in Texas is on low fenced properties with free ranging animals.

I am not a proponent of high fences, but it is something Texans have to deal with whether they want to or not.

If I were going to do an antelope or mule deer hunt in Montana I would try a D-I-Y, but for bear or elk or moose, I would hire a guide, course I guess there is something wrong with that?

I merely stated that Montana, messed up with the draw process this year and because of that mess up extra money would have to be spent rectifying it.

That qualifies as a cluster.

I could care less if you got all the Non-Resident Outfitters kicked out of Montana and then took your crusade straight down the rockies.

with the exception of the trip to Nunavut, all of the hunts I have done out of Texas where I neede a guide, I arranged those hunts with residents of the area I would be hunting.

My goodness Montana sure is lucky to have you defending it, H.M. . You must be a real peach for a neighbor!
I don't trade insults with anyone slow witted enough to make their argument by resorting to trash talk.

quote:

Originally posted by 2th doc:
My goodness Montana sure is lucky to have you defending it, H.M. . You must be a real peach for a neighbor!
I don't trade insults with anyone slow witted enough to make their argument by resorting to trash talk.

+1

I went there 3 times hunting Deer and Elk two falls ago. I saw nothing but scared animals and wolf tracks. They lost a Million already this year on the Tag increase. I'm not surprised. I talked to a lot of Non residents while I was there and they weren't going back either.

I don't think there will be a problem selling the extra tags.

I hope it keeps some of the less ethical hunters I have been seeing at home this season. But that won't happen; the slob-hunters seem to always be bragging about how much money they have anyway. But they don't spend it here; they camp for free and bring everything they need with them except for a tank of fuel or 2.

I won't mention specific states, but TX (as mentioned previously) has never been a problem for me personally.

What no one seems to realize is the outfitters' clients actually got a big price break with this new initiative. Last years guaranteed Deer-combo license was $995. This year only $542. If I were an outfitter, I would have had that in my advertising instead of moaning about "no more guaranteed license"

If I am not mistaken The combo tag is $912 this year, the $542 tag is gor general deer tag.

actually, we are both right, Brian.
The Deer combo is $542, Elk combo is $812 and Deer/Elk combo is $912. FWP labels all as "combination" licenses due to the fact they include the conservation, state lands, upland bird, etc license.

http://fwp.mt.gov/hunting/lice...ailableLicenses.html

Each is considerably cheaper than the corresponding Outfitter-guaranteed license last season.

Just an FYI MontanaHunter, I think all Non-Resident Outfitters in any state are a bad deal, but that is just my opinion.

Fact of life however is that some folks, including RESIDENTS of Montana that own property that has huntable populations of elk/mule deer/moose/black bear etc. etc., have figured out that they can make money selling hunts to Non-Resident hunters.

Same thing in Wyoming/Colorado/Neveada/Utah, you name it, all western states are having problems with the treatment of Non-Resident Hunters versus Resident hunters.

Resident hunters do not like the effect Non-Residents have had in the various states, because they feel, whether warranted or not, that Non-Residents are given preferrential treatment whenm it comes to tag allocations in coveted units.

Maybe their feelings are perfectly legitimate, and then maybe they aren't.

Maybe these residents feel that if it was not for the impact of Non-Resident Hunters/Outfitters, it would be easier and cheaper to gain access to Private Lands.

Well i only applied for a Deer "A" tag this year. Sure hated to send the higher fee for that. My plan is to hopefully get drawn this year (have 3 preference points from previous year missed draws) and then hope to get a decent muley that I would like to mount as a trophy. If things work to that point, you can all bet it will be the last buck deer I shoot in MT as the price increase has gotten to steep . I'll still hunt MT on "B" tags as I like the meat from the does and it gives me a vacation and I get to see my friends whom I hunt with. Eventually tho, I suppose I'll have to give that up to, what with the economy down sprial, all the talk of budget cutbacks, no pay raises going into the second year (but all goods and service I need still go up) and simply advancing old age will all combine to eventually stop my hunting. BUT, at least I was able to expreience somthing I liked doing very much, can't say the same thing for all the youth coming in behind me.

quote:

Yes it is, due the the money the state has to spend getting the situation straightened out.

All that paperwork and stuff causes more man hours work.

That is a cluster.

Had they have left things the way they were, they would not be needing all that extra labor getting things fixed.

quote:

Yes, but they will be being paid for extra work that would not have been necessary had things not been changed.

Those state workers have already been paid to get things set up for the season, now they are going to have to go back in, scrap all that work and basically start over.

Crazy, I'm not sure where all this extra work is and why FWP would have to scrap anything and start over.

They sold 15,800 out of the 17,000 non-resident licenses. They have 6 months to sell the remaining 1,200 licenses.

If I recall correctly, they didn't sell all of the NR licenses on the first go around last year either.

You reep what you sow

Montana residents sowed sour grapes and now they will get to enjoy them.

First you get to choose then the non res's get to choose.

For 12 years straight I have poured money into the Montana economy. (As a do it yourself hunter). Estimate $25Gs This year I said enough is enough.

I am only sad to here that 15800 others didn't get smart. Without the NR's money the FWP would be bankrupt. No block management which is where most of the Montana res hunt.

I hunted all BM land and public and became good friends with the land owners and locals. (Ask them in Jordan about the parties we gave to the locals) Who depend on the BM money to help pay their property taxes.

The solution to Montana's problem would be to immediately add a surcharge to resident licenses across the board to make up the difference.

Like raise a res Elk tag from the insulting $20 or what ever it is, to a $100 this year and then $200 next. However they would have to sell nearly 11K licenses to even come close to make up the short fall this year.

Ain't going to happen but would like to see it. Block management is going to suffer.

quote:

Originally posted by LRF:
The solution to Montana's problem would be to immediately add a surcharge to resident licenses across the board to make up the difference.

Like raise a res Elk tag from the insulting $20 or what ever it is, to a $100 this year and then $200 next. However they would have to sell nearly 11K licenses to even come close to make up the short fall this year.

Ain't going to happen but would like to see it. Block management is going to suffer.

Screw that!!

And what "problem" are you talking about?

Tell ya what...you agree to stay in PA (with your 25K) and I will stay here in MT. Problem solved!

I look at this in several ways. If the price is higher then and less people apply those who are willing to pay will have a better chance at drawing and those who do not want to pay it can choose to apply for less expensive states with a lower likelyhood of drawing. I do agree that often times the out of state hunter is paying a premium to reduce costs for instate hunters but I also see that many of the instate hunters are shooting meat and not trophies and this would be bad for both the locals and the animals if only big bulls were being hunted. I do think it problematic if areas are being closed to locals due to the influence of the guides and would understand resentment of the locals to this. I also understand the guides need to earn a living. I think as demonstrated above that this is a touchy matter but hostility seldoms works out for the benifit of anyone.

HunterMontana made some very good points despite a few minor delivery problems. The way I read this thread it was another member starting the name calling.

MT made more money for the FWP this year than last already. They will sell all the remaining tags in the next few months, further stuffing their pockets. Are the prices too high? I would like to say yes. But given the number of tags hasn't changed, and they will effectively sell out (albiet slower), then they must have priced the tags according to what the market will support. As a NR, I wish the prices were lower. I wish a lot of prices were lower. As a DIY hunter, I support 100% the elimination of outfitter sponsored tags. As many members of this forum routinely employ outfitters it is understandable why they decry the elimination of their priviledge. It is primarily just whining because now they have to compete with us mere mortal hunters.
Bill