Here are some photos of my recent bison shoot in Montana. I described the shoot in more detail on a previous post but didn't have time to post photos before leaving on another hunt.

Here is the bull that I picked out of the herd to shoot.



Holly and I with my bull shot with my Marlin .45/70 and Garrett 530 gr. Hammerhead hard cast lead bullets. The Marlin has been heavily customized by Jim Brockman.



Front view of the bull showing the curved horns that I thought would make an interesting skull mount.



This is the yearling bull that my cousin shot.



Once the bulls were field dressed, they were loaded into the pickup for the trip to the meat processor.



Lyle Happel of Happel's Clean Cut Meats starting the skinning process on my bull.

Mark,

top pictures well done.

Did you recover any of those Garrets ??

Also were did you get your synthetic stock for your 45/70 ??

I shot the bull twice. The first shot was behind the shoulder just behind the line where the heavy shoulder hair joins the shorter body hair, about half way up.

That shot would have been sufficient. But, as the bull was still on his feet, I decided to shoot it again through the thick area in the front half of the shoulder. I was interested to see what the Garrett bullets would do when it encountered heavy bone and very dense muscle mass.

The first bullet entered between two ribs and blasted out the other side of the chest through a rib bone.

The second bullet entered, but did not exit the front shoulder. I watched as it was skinned at the meat processors and saw the entrance hole in the cape and carcass, but no exit. I asked the butcher to try to find the bullet and send it to me with the meat, but, he either didn't find it, or just threw it out with the bones and scraps.

The stock on the Marlin is not synthetic. I had Jim Brockman extensively customize the rifle. One of his tricks is to paint the wood stock with a very durable, black paint that incorporates a sandy textured material added to create a non-slip grip.

Congratulations Mark

Thank you for sharing the nice pictures.

That looks like a beautiful place to hunt.

Thanks for your report on the Garrett ammo.

Those bison are surprisingly big bodied animals. Should make a neat shoulder mount!

They sure keep them on some rich graze.

Mark,
Thanks for sharing! Looks like you are going to have some GREAT eating for the next year or so

My mouth is watering thinkig about those steaks!!!!!!!!Good looking animal. Congratulations.

Ann, they had rounded up a herd of bison from the open range on the ranch (115,000 acres)and driven them into a several hundred acre, center-pivot irrigation alfalfa field. I guess they feel that eating alfalfa for several weeks improves the quality of the meat. It also makes them easier to find when a client comes to shoot one. The bison seemed content to be there. The barbed wire cattle fence around the field certainly wouldn't have kept them in if they had wanted to escape!

I agree that the bull would have made a great shoulder mount, but it would be HUGE! We saw some beautiful bison bull shoulder mounts in various places around Montana, but they're as big as an Eland shoulder mount.

We have over 40 African trophies in the taxidermy pipeline at the moment and I'm afraid we won't have any room left for a bison shoulder mount. We decided to do a skull mount and have the entire hide tanned into a buffalo robe to use as a bedspread (the dogs and cats are going to love it, I'm sure).

In a response to my previous post about this hunt, someone asked about the costs for the skull mount and robe. The skull mount will cost $150.00 and the tanning for the robe is $500.00.

Last week we received a FEDEX 2nd Day Air shipment of 350 pounds of bison. We've got bison steaks, tenderloins, roasts, london broils, bisonburger, jerky, pepperoni sticks, salami, bologna, breakfast link sausages, italian sausage and brautwurst. We'll be eating bison for quite a long time!

I was surprised that the yield was so low. My bull weighed about 1700 pounds on the hoof and my cousin's yearling bull probably weighed around 700 pounds. The meat processor weighed the carcasses on the way into the cooler and the carcass weight on my bull was 954 pounds, my cousin's bull was 412 pounds. We agreed to split the processing cost and divide the meat equally between us. We both received 350 pounds of boneless meat.

That means that from a total carcass weight of 1,366 pounds we got 700 pounds of boneless meat, which equals a yield of 51%. Granted we had some jerky made which reduces the weight, but on the other hand, they added fat to the burger and some pork to the sausage products.

Those of you who have shot bison and had it processed, it would be interesting to hear what your yields were.

[ 11-15-2002, 05:56: Message edited by: Mark in SC ]

Mark in SC
You had what always happens at processing plants-they keep some meat to sell to the resteruants and whom ever for alot of money!!!!
Especially Bison!!! Try a buy a bison steak at a Dinner.

[ 11-15-2002, 01:54: Message edited by: Gunnut45/454 ]

Mark,
Yup, some of that meat was skimmed away from you by the procesor.
I am curious as to who is tanning your bison hide for $500??
I may be hunting on the Crow Reservation in December and am looking for a good (cheap) tannery.

Regards,

JohnTheGreek

Don't take this the wrong way or anything. I'm not a anti hunter. Actually I'm a avid hunter of just about anything (except African game) there is a season on, including varmints but I have a question. How is there any sportsmanship in shooting something that has been herded up into a fenced in area so that all you have to do is walk out there and shoot it ?

Apollo, I agree.

I never claimed that there was anything "sporting" about shooting a bison standing in a fenced field.

As a matter of fact, there was nothing "sporting" about the way millions of bison were slaughtered in the 1800's by "sport" hunters shooting from moving trains or commercial hunters sitting on a distant hilltop with a Sharps rifle.

It's likely that the last time a bison was hunted in "sporting" fashion, it was done by a Plains Indian on horseback with a bow and arrow.

Today, as it was 150 years ago, it amounts to grocery shopping with a rifle instead of a shopping cart.

I was going to Montana anyway to visit relatives and I thought it would be an interesting experience that would give me a chance to test the nostalgic .45/70 cartridge and modern Garrett Hammerhead ammunition against the closest thing North America has to a Cape Buffalo.

We like bison meat and I wanted a buffalo robe and skull mount as souvenirs (I won't even refer to them as "trophies") of the experience.

Finally, given the opportunity, I prefer to kill my own meat, and I would rather have a buffalo robe from an animal that I shot, than one bought from a western artifact gift shop.

Read my previous post and you will see that I clearly stated that this was not a fair-chase hunt. Keith Atcheson was also careful to identify it as a "cull" when he first posted the opportunity on the Forum.

Several people (correctly, I believe) took exception to my use of the term "hunt" to describe the experience in my previous post, so I now refer to it as a "shoot."

Here are the links to those Topics:

http://www.serveroptions.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=002593

http://www.serveroptions.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=002388#000001

Mark....sounds like you had a good time and to tell you the truth I don't see a lot of difference between how you killed your buffalo and how a lot of deer hunting is done in places like Texas where the hunter is placed in a plush blind to wait for a big buck to walk up to a feeder.
There are a lot of trophy-mill ranches in Texas that get big "bucks" for a 3-day "hunt" with 99% sucess on trophy white-tails. I have a hard time calling it hunting with or without high fences.

I persoanlly think it's great that YOU had a good time and to buggery what anyone else thinks about wether it was a hunt or a shoot ar whatever. I enjoyed the pics and the story I am also suprised you only got 700 pounds of meat from those two bison. Some must have went missing.

DB, your exaggerating the "trophy" hunting in texas, there are high fenced ranches in a LOT of states. That said, I agree w/u on but there is still lots of normally hunting here..

Thanks for the nice Photos

Hey Mark,

When is the BBQ? Congrats on a full freezer and a great nostalgic experience.

Apollo,

You are pretty quick to piss in someone else's pot. Mark made it clear from the start that this was a "shoot", not a hunt. Lighten up a bit.

Bob

Mark, one mans music is another mans noise, you just do whatever makes you happy. I would love to do that bison thing for the reasons you mentioned. I can taste that bison! Good job!!

Bob in TX, I don't believe I pissed in anyone's pot. I simply asked a question and Mark explained the situation and I now understand what the circumstances were and I don't have a problem with what Mark done in anyway.

Mark I doubt if the processor took your bison meat.

I think there was a lot of destroyed meat from the devastating power of that 45-70.

Excuse me, I gotta go now - I think I hear a posse coming...

Rick.

P.S.
Congrats. I'd love to shoot one myself. I saw a shoulder mount at a local SCI banquet, and couldn't believe the size of it. I thought it had to be fake at first.

My clients take a lot of Bison, and that yield sounds pretty close. A whole lot of a Bison's weight is in skin and bones. Just look at the hump on that sucker. It's a 2 man job to lift a cape with head into the truck. I have seen yields averaging from 50-60%. I have never seen one yield more than 60%.

As to whether it's a sporting or not, that's up to the guy shooting. Bison are basically stupid, which is how they were shot out so quickly in the first place. If you want to eat Bison meat or add one to your trophy room, you are going to go collect him. It's rarely difficult (although I have seen some pretty wild Bison out west), but that's just the way it is. It's still more sporting and humane than where we get our beef or chicken. To each his own.

JohnTheGreek, call Jerry Andres at Andres Taxidermy in Belgrade, MT. His phone number is 406-388-7226.

He sent the skull somewhere to be cleaned by flesh eating beetles and the robe to a tannery. I don't have the contact info. for either place, but I'm sure Jerry would try to help you out. He quoted $150 for cleaning the skull and $500 for tanning the robe.

GregR, thanks for your response on the yield question. I truly doubt that Lyle Happel at Happel's Clean Cut Meats would resort to stealing meat from his customers. They have been in business for two generations and you don't stay in business that long by mistreating your customers.

You're right about the dramatic difference between live weight and carcass weight going into the cooler. The guts left behind in the alfalfa field must have weighed 300 pounds. The head probably weighed another 200 pounds. The hide and lower legs accounted for another 200 pounds or so.
Starting with a live weight of around 1700 pounds that would leave a carcass weight of 1000 pounds. The actual carcass weight of my bull going into the cooler was 954 pounds. That's a 41% loss between live weight and carcass weight.

Now that I've seen how heavily boned bull bison are, I can see how yields from carcass weight to boned meat weight could be as low as 50% - 60%.

Mark,
Your yeilds are about right...I get about 60 percent on my Bison...

I will have to correct you on your post as to the last fair chase Bison hunt was by indians, horseback, just not so......mine was this year.

I have an absolutly fair chase Bison hunt in Nebraska. It took me 4 days of tough foot hunting to get my bull. They are wild and spooky and in the bald Mountain tops and low thick valleys, and all in a matter of minutes...

We only allow hunting from the lodge and by foot and sometimes spot and stalk, but this still requires quite a climb and walk...I have found it more challanging than hunting Cape Bufflo in Africa....these buffalo are presently in a high fenced 8 mile long by 5 mile wide high mountain area and as the fence is being completed will eventually be in a 200,000 acre enclosure sands cross fences, probably within two years. But as it now stands it is a tough hunt and comparable to many sheep hunts I have been on.....These Bison watch the deer and elk movement and are gone at the first spooked elk or deer, and elk and deer are abundant.

I killed my Bison bull this year with one shot from Sweet Thang, my double 450-400-3" and a 400 gr. Woodleigh at 2150 FPS after a long hike and a 300 yard belly crawl in high grass. It was a quick clean kill. That 5 year old trophy bull is tender beyond belief, and we can't tell it from NY beef...I have never understood why Buff are tender, a 5 year old Herford bull would not be edible except for hamburger...Cape Buff are normally very tough.

These hunts run $2750. for 3 days and 4 nights at our deluxe lodge out of Sargent, NB everything furnished, 10 star meals...Call me when you have finished eating that one, and I'll send you on a real Bison hunt, and promise that you will love it.

Ray is right. There are still fair chase bison hunts to be had with some being in HUGE enclosures and some not. I am booking a hunt on the Crow Indian Res. for December and took a wild as hell Wood Bison in the Yukon last February. It took us four days to find them and four days to snowmobile the thing out.

http://www.serveroptions.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=002531#000000

Thanks for the contact information!!

Best Regards,

JohnTheGreek

John,

That was a great Bison. The Mervyn's do have a great Bison hunt, but it's more than some people can or will pay for a Bison. That's the one I am going to do when I get around to it.

I also have a few good Bison hunts in South Dakota. A better hunt can be had, but there are far fewer of them than there are ranch type hunts. Just be sure to ask what kind of hunt you can expect when you go for Bison, because they do vary.

Hi:
I don't mean to be a wet rag, but where is the fair chase element in this "Hunt", that defines the sport to most of us. Trophy and Bison in the same sentence is an oxymoron. Som years ago, we visited one of these Hunt farms, run by some people we knew. the Yankee suckers, who paid the big bucks, were taken on an extended horse ride that ended up right behind the main ranch house, where they got to try their skill on one of the least intelligent animals alive. After much congratulation on their "marksmanship", they were taken back by the same roundabout way. What a Hunt!!! Since the collapse of the exotic "wild" animal market, you can buy your buffalo, sorry bison, cheaper than beef.
Griz

I heard from a friend that Chuck Adams, worlds greatest hunter, killed the world record Bison and world record elk this year, all in the same year too and with a bow. The bison was an unpenned and in Montana if I remember and was recognized in Pope & Young only because of that.

Nice bull. I remember the first time I seen a shoulder mount of one, I was about 8 or 10 yrs old and that damn thing looked fake too. It was about 4-5' tall like me and I remember asking dad if it was real, it was enormous. I've never seen one that big since but some that were real close.

They are not penned in up here either, and are also recognized in the books too, my buddy and his father have both been lucky and filled tags that took years to get.

Apollo-My Apologies

Bob

JohnTheGreek, it sounds like you truly earned your woods bison and saw some beautiful country in the process. Congratulations! Do you have your bison cape bedspread back yet? I'm wondering how ours will turn out and whether some cutting and sewing work will be necessary to get it to lie flat.

Ray, I may take you up on the fair-chase bison hunt. It would be interesting to see how a "wild" bison hunt compares to the "shoot" we experienced. Holly has already announced that next time, she is going to do the shooting and I'll be the videographer.

I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers with my comment about the last "sporting" bison hunt having been done by a Plains Indian on horseback with a bow and arrow. I realize that there are still a few truly fair-chase hunting opportunities for bison scattered around the western US and Canada. However, as GregR pointed out, they are the exception rather than the rule. And as Grizzly Adams mentioned, whether raised on a fenced ranch or in a wild, fair-chase environment, bison are certainly not the brightest creatures on God's green earth.

Mark,

You should have no problem getting the bedspread to rest flat. They are REAALLLY warm, however. I sleep under the backskin of a bull I shot in S. Dakota three years ago and have been known to open my window in the middle of a Utah December because it was TOO HOT!! I think Grizzly Adams underestimates the Bison. Old solitary bulls can, in fact be quite wary if given proper hunting pressure and terrain that lends itself to being reclusive and sneaky.
I think you should definitely go on Ray's hunt but save some pennies too and try to go on Tim Mervyn's hunt in The Yukon when you get the chance. It will cost you a bit but man it's worth every dime.

Just a little tease for you . . .check out this bull that was taken under fair chase conditions in Utah's Henry Mountains a couple years ago (nearly 129" B&C . . . great mass!!!)


Best Regards,

JohnTheGreek

[ 11-18-2002, 23:29: Message edited by: JohnTheGreek ]

Well I will tell you after climbing mountains for 3 days and I probably crawled 3 miles of that on my belly peeking over a saddle to observe bedded buffalo that were now 2000 yards away looking at the creature pursueing them (that being me) it can get pretty frustrating..

On one ocassion we had them surrounded and they took a route yet to be found and got away from us completely. These bulls watch the movements of the elk and deer and when you bump one of the million plus elk (thats gotta be right) or one of the 10 million deer (that must also be right) then away the Bison go...They amble off at about 100 miles per hour and thats at a walk....then you have to climb down off the mountain to get after them and the next time you seem them they are in some high bald peak with nothing but nothing for two miles in every direction, so a humping we will go after this so called dumb animal as someone so unknowing and arrogant so stated in an above post...the only time hard hunted Bison are dumb is AFTER the shot when the circle thier breathern but we are not hide hunting, so that doesn't count anymore...

I have seen dumb deer and dumb elk too. It all depends on the circumstances of their enviroment as to the amount of preservation instincts an animal has...

So, all you nay sayers as to the sport of hunting Bison, come on I'll show you a differant sort of Bison hunt and I have hunted as much as any man alive today.....

This is one of my favorite hunts and I will shoot a bison here every year as long as I can climb a hill....It is so comparable to hunting Cape Buffalo that I can hardly believe it, except the terrian is a bit higher and harder to hunt and the price is a lot less.

What is the best time of year to hunt bison? What do you look for in a trophy?

Dave,

Winter is best for the hides to be in prime condition. A good mature bull is usually one with horns that have curved back in toward the top of the head. If the horns are vertical he is usually a youngster or a geezer bull that has broomed his horns back (another cool animal to take in my opinion). Obviously you want good mass that carries as far as possible through toward the horn tips like that bull from the Henry Mountains I posted above.
It seems that there is also a tendency for BIG bulls to have a sort of 90 degree turn to their horns that lesser bulls do not have. The horns seem to come straight out and abruptly turn vertical. These two bulls are good examples. The first is Craig Boddington's bull from a ranch in Colorado.


The next is the B&C world record taken by the head Yellowstone Park Ranger Sam Woodring in 1925.



The next time I go Bison hunting I am gonna look for that 90 degree horn turn.

Best Regards,

JohnTheGreek

[ 11-19-2002, 04:07: Message edited by: JohnTheGreek ]

Thanks John,haven't seen any since i was a kid in Hutch,Ks. hey used to have a small herd in the city zoo thatplayed with a huge soccer ball.

James,
Late Sept. to Feb 1 is time to hunt Bison...Nov. Dec. Jan. is prime....Very doable in Nebraska.

Alaska still offers fair chase, wild bison hunts. No high fences or cheap sh*# like that. But, drawing a permit for a bison hunt up here is really hard to do.

Mark,

Nice pictures and what a wonderful animal you shot! I really like the set-up on your 45-70. First time I've seen something like that before. I might have to do that to my Marlin .44 Rem. Mag. lever action.

Bearstalker, (and anyone else interested in customizing their Marlin lever actions) take a look at Jim Brockman's website at www.brockmansrifles.com or give him a call at his shop in Gooding, Idaho. His phone number is 208-934-5050.

In addition to building custom bolt action rifles, he has developed a specialization in custom work on Marlins, and he does a great job. He customized the Marlin .45/70 rifle that Vince Lupo used to take the "Big 6" with in Africa.

On my rifle he thinned and reshaped the stock then painted the stock with a non-slip tough black epoxy finish, glass bedded the buttstock and forend, dehorned the action, polished all the moving parts in the action, took the creep out of the trigger pull, installed a new recoil pad to increase the length of pull and reduce recoil, re-crowned the muzzle and installed a cartridge trap in the buttstock.

I read that in the old days they sometimes only take the tongue...

Wonder how the tongue tastes...