I got this off Free Republic and thought it might be of interest here.

God I hate the SOBs who thought it would be a good idea to bring wolves back to the west.


http://www.freerepublic.com/fo...oggers/2439741/posts

Sickening! I wish we could take Ed Bang's and Doug Smith's and Mike Jemenez's, lap dog, kids pets, or hunting dogs and turn them loose in jellystone. And video the entire escapade.

To the pro wolf pukes!

Despite hunts, wolves hold steady in Northern Rockies


A gray wolf pup stares in this file photo from the Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks. (Courtesy photo)

A new tally of gray wolves in the Northern Rockies shows the population held steady across the region in 2009. That ends more than a decade of expansion for the predators but also shows their resilience in the face of new hunting seasons in Montana and Idaho.

Biologists say preliminary results show the region's total wolf population will be similar to last year's minimum of 1,650 wolves in Montana, Idaho and Wyoming.

That's despite the killing of more than 500 wolves in 2009, primarily by hunters and government wildlife agents responding to livestock attacks.

The latest population estimate was released Thursday, in court documents filed in defense of the federal government's decision last year to remove Montana and Idaho wolves from the endangered species list.

Wolves in Wyoming were left on the list. That decision has been challenged in a separate case that will be the subject a federal court hearing on Friday in Cheyenne.

Big game animals scarce in once-popular hunting district along Gallatin River


Elk numbers have fallen so low in the upper Gallatin River drainage that the state is proposing a permit-only season next year for at most 500 hunters.

The hunters aren’t to blame for the reduced number of elk. Two wolf packs and grizzly bears are responsible for the decline, according to Julie Cunningham, a wildlife biologist in the Bozeman office of Fish, Wildlife and Parks.

A meeting is being held Thursday in Bozeman to outline the problem and permit changes, as well as to hear the public’s suggestions.

“We need to discuss the nature of hunting in a resource that’s dwindling,” Cunningham said.

Hunting District 310 is about 219 square miles of rugged mountains and drainages southwest of Bozeman and northwest of Yellowstone National Park. The district is bordered by the Madison Range to the west and the Gallatin Range to the east. Its northern boundary extends to the east of the resort community of Big Sky.

Two packs hunt in the area. The Hayden pack had six wolves and the Cougar Two had 10 at the end of 2008. Grizzly bears, which were returned to the endangered species list in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem this year, also inhabit the territory, as do black bears and mountain lions.

Elk are the main food source for wolves in the region, and grizzly bears are the primary predators of elk calves. But it wasn’t until wolves arrived in the region in significant numbers that FWP saw the dramatic decline in elk numbers.



Quick fall


As recently as 2005, 1,500 elk were counted in the hunting district. This year, only 200 were found.

“Our population objective is to manage within 20 percent of 1,500 wintering elk,” Cunningham said. “In recent years, we’re as far as 85 percent below that objective.”

In hopes of counteracting the elk population’s downturn, FWP eliminated late hunts in the district in 2004 and in 2007 went to a permit-only system for bulls, although the number of permits was not capped. Still, the elk population has declined by about 30 percent annually.

Hunters aren’t killing many elk — only about 60 in 2008. Instead, Cunningham said it is the area’s four-legged hunters that have taken a toll on the elk herd.

According to her research, in 2006 there were 23 wolves to every 1,000 elk in Hunting District 310. That compares to nine wolves to every 1,000 elk on the Northern Yellowstone Range in nearby Yellowstone Park. Grizzly bears numbered 57 to every 1,000 elk in HD 310, compared to nine per 1,000 on the Northern Range.

“Those ratios are really key when we expect to see wolf influence on elk distribution,” Cunningham said. “We ex-pect to see it at 10 per 1,000.”



Other causes?


She added that there are no habitat factors that would explain the decline in elk. Recreational use of the drainage by snowmobilers has been blamed by some for fewer wintering elk, but Cunningham said she’s not pointing any fingers.

Some elk, feeling too crowded by predators and people, simply relocated to a less-stressful environment in the Madison Valley, where large swaths of private land provide a safe haven but also keep hunters at bay. Without public hunting, wildlife managers can’t control population densities.

The fact that HD 310 contains good winter elk habitat on public land accessible to hunters yet isn’t being used to its fullest bothers Kurt Alt, Region 3 wildlife manager for FWP.

“Why would we not put an effort into restoring elk on public land?” Alt said.

Cunningham said FWP is seeing similar declines in elk caused by predators in portions of the Bitterroot and Clarks Fork valleys. Any formula that could revive elk in HD 310 might be duplicated in other hunting districts, she added.

Good for Utah!

Utah lawmaker: Wandering wolves should be killed or captured


SALT LAKE CITY - Gray wolves are a rare sight in Utah and a state lawmaker wants to make sure it stays that way.

State Sen. Allen Christensen has proposed a bill that would require state wildlife officials to capture or kill all wild wolves that wander into Utah - even those in areas where they're protected by the federal Endangered Species Act.

Christensen, a Republican from North Ogden, said he worries that wolves from neighboring states could eventually decimate Utah's elk and deer populations and hurt the livestock industry.

If enacted, the bill is probably unconstitutional, violating the supremacy clause where federal law supersedes state law, according to the state's Office of Legislative Research and General Counsel.

Utah already has a management plan that allows wolves into the state, compensates livestock owners for losses and allows for them to be killed or relocated if they drive down game populations.

Christensen's bill would take state policy further, though, with the hopes of eliminating any chance wolves could get a foothold anywhere in Utah.

Wolves were wiped out of Utah a century ago for good reason, he said.

"Their lifestyle isn't compatible with ours. People say that's a haughty attitude. I'm sorry, we're here to stay," Christensen said.

There are about 1,600 wolves in Montana, Idaho and Wyoming, most of them descended from 66 animals introduced to the region in the mid-1990s by the federal government. They have been taken off the endangered species list in Montana and Idaho - which recently allowed public hunts - and the northeast corner of Utah.

There are currently no known wolf packs in Utah although a few loners occasionally wander into the state. A radio-collared wolf was captured in a coyote trap in north-central Utah in 2002. That prompted state officials to start a lengthy process to develop a management plan for others that might wander in.

The state plan, approved in 2005, focuses on conserving wolves that arrive but dealing with those that cause serious problems with livestock and local game populations.

A mail-in survey of Utah residents before the plan found that most had favorable attitudes toward wolves, especially residents in urban areas.

Few, though, have had any close encounters lately.

One wolf with a GPS collar traveled through the state last winter, spending several weeks in northern Utah before wandering toward Vail, Colo., according to Kevin Bunnell, mammals program coordinator for the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources.

"They're capable of these huge movements," he said.

Probable tracks of another were spotted earlier this winter but there's no sign of wolf pairs or packs settling in to stay, Bunnell said.

It's against federal law to kill wolves in areas where they're classified as endangered, including most of Utah. That wouldn't change even if Christensen's bill goes through, said Ed Bangs, wolf recovery coordinator for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

"Wolf protection would not be affected at all," he said. "Federal law trumps state law just as state law trumps county law."

But Christensen said he's willing to take his proposal as far as possible, including using it to assert state's rights and fight it out in court.

"It'll take a while to work its way through all the obstacles," Christensen said.

He said he hopes private funding - including from sportsmen and livestock groups - could be used to fight any challenge to the law.

Utah's legislative session starts Monday.

in alaska up in st. michaels we were talking to a musher one day. he told us that it was a fairly normal thing for a wolf pack to send a bitch in heat into town to lure dogs out after here. then the rest of the pack would kill and eat them. such things usually happened in late winter when food was hard to come by for the wolves

We used do the same to coyotes here with a female dog.

The states with problems should open the season for more animals. The wolves are runing the ecosystem for everyone.

State argues for control of in-state wolf population! Fighting the feds lies! 15 breeding pairs was the agreement.

CHEYENNE -- Lawyers for the state told a federal judge today that Wyoming should be given control over wolves in the state, calling the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service's rejection of Wyoming's wolf management plan "arbitrary and capricious."

Federal attorneys responded that Wyoming's plan would put the state's wolf population at risk because it would allow the animals to be killed anywhere in the state besides national park lands.

Attorneys for Fish and Wildlife and the U.S. Department of Justice faced off with lawyers from the state and Park County during oral arguments before U.S. District Judge Alan Johnson. Both sides now await a ruling from Johnson, which could take anywhere from a few days to several months to be released.

No matter what Johnson's ruling is, the case will likely be appealed, said Harriet Hageman, one of the attorneys for the state.

The state filed the suit in June after Fish and Wildlife left wolves on the Endangered Species List while removing them in Montana and Idaho. The court case is the latest legal battle over wolves in Wyoming and neighboring states since the animals were reintroduced in Yellowstone National Park and central Idaho in the mid-1990s.

Federal biologists estimate there are currently 1,645 gray wolves in Montana, Idaho and Wyoming, including 300-350 in Wyoming.

Wyoming's wolf management plan would list wolves as a "trophy species" in the state's northwest corner and as a "predator species" in the rest of the state. Trophy species are regulated by the Wyoming Game and Fish Department and can only be legally hunted with a license; predator species can be trapped or killed on sight using any legal means.

This morning, U.S. Department of Justice attorney Mike Eitel argued that Wyoming's plan to classify wolves as a "predator species" outside Yellowstone would put the viability of wolf populations at risk.

Instead, the FWS has argued that wolves should be listed as a "trophy species" statewide.

Eitel also said that under Wyoming's plan, wolves in the state wouldn't have the "genetic connectivity" with other wolf populations to maintain a healthy population.

Attorneys for the state and county called the genetic connectivity argument "absurd," and said the federal government's case was a "Trojan Horse" to allow ever-increasing numbers of wolves in the state.

Wolves attacking Bear Dogs and house pets has become pretty common place here in Wi.The State
pays something to the owner,but a good Bear Dog can be worth $5,000 to $10,000.00.My neighbor lost two 400 Lb calfs last spring and was told Coyotes did it.No payment.
Last Deer season 14 Wolves got lead poisoning and no ones talking.Chit has a way of working out!!!

This happened in Utah a couple of years ago where the owner lost 4 dogs and had one seriously mauled only because the owner run the wolves off. As I recall same scenario but bear dogs three killed at the treeing and the wolves ran down the other two killing the 4th and in the act of killing the 5th. The owner who was unarmed since he was out training the dogs confronted the pack and it was touch and go whether or not the wolves where going to leave.

What these idiots don't understand is predators population s will keep growing as long as their is sufficient prey animals, problem becomes critical when the prey isn't sufficient to support the population that is when they either die off or find a different food source.

quote:

Originally posted by OLBIKER:
Wolves attacking Bear Dogs and house pets has become pretty common place here in Wi.The State
pays something to the owner,but a good Bear Dog can be worth $5,000 to $10,000.00.My neighbor lost two 400 Lb calfs last spring and was told Coyotes did it.No payment.
Last Deer season 14 Wolves got lead poisoning and no ones talking.Chit has a way of working out!!!

I too happen to appreciate the "Three S" policy of predator management when the preservationists get out of control. That's just me tho. We had this problem in the Fbks. area just last winter.
Bear in Fairbanks

quote:

Originally posted by raamw:
This happened in Utah a couple of years ago where the owner lost 4 dogs and had one seriously mauled only because the owner run the wolves off.

I believe that happened in Idaho. There was also a similar incident in Wisconsin. Utah has no known wolf packs, though one or two individual wolves had wandered through in the past.

Some years ago back in the late '80s, I used to hunt black bear in the Nipissing District of Ontario Province in Canada. The lodge owners had a friendly old setter (I think it was a Gordon setter). I arrived one spring for a spring bear hunt (legal in those days in Ontario)and missed the friendly greeting. The dog had gone out on the ice of the lake and was seized and eaten by wolves. Up to that time I had declined to shoot at a wolf (if there was an opportunity -much to the annoyance of the locals)because I had romanticized wolves. No longer! (Ironically, I didn't ever get a clear shot thereafter) I do understand and sympathize with Westerners about their hatred of wolves (even if, I did some years back in this forum,argue that we can't wipe them them out. I still feel that way - but if I was in the field today, would shoot them on sight.

Wait a minute...the pack sends a female wolf, in heat, into town to draw domestic dogs out so the pack can eat them. So the female wolf in heat has no interest from the male wolves in the pack?

Somethin' seems odd here - is that alpha male named Bubba, and does he carry some heat or something?

Still think shoot, shovel, shut works best.

Several bear hounds get eaten a year in Wisconsin.

Would it work to train other dog breeds with the hounds, breeds (like wolfhounds) who were developed to attack and kill wolves. If the trailing hounds attract wolves to them, perhaps a few wolfhounds in the mix would result in a few dead wolves. Over a period of time could the wolfhounds be used for the purpose of thinning the wolf ranks.

After all, wolfhounds are just doing what they naturally do--kill wolves, just like wolves are doing what they naturally do.

quote:

Would it work to train other dog breeds with the hounds, breeds (like wolfhounds) who were developed to attack and kill wolves. If the trailing hounds attract wolves to them, perhaps a few wolfhounds in the mix would result in a few dead wolves. Over a period of time could the wolfhounds be used for the purpose of thinning the wolf ranks.

After all, wolfhounds are just doing what they naturally do--kill wolves, just like wolves are doing what they naturally do.

I have wondered the same thing. Hunting a bear or cats, wolves attack, big bloody dog fight, how could you be prosecuted. I have seen some mean ass pitbulls, I think that might be a match.

My step-father used to hunt with dogs, his friends packs, he said they'd keep a "yellow cur", just one, in a pack. it was a kill dog. He said they were mean as hell and could not be trusted, but were great for their purpose.

What gives the wolves the advantage? how big is a pack? maybe the combo of size and numbers?

I like the idea of having a dog hunt with the scent dogs, wolfhounds would probably take a couple generations to get it back in their blood, I don't think they've been used to hunt in so long. rhodesians might be good too. dobermens?

I read that story, gotta say if it was a "well known den site 500 yds away", I think I'd find me a den the next day.

Red
PS
Wild dogs can be scary too I've heard. In 50+ years hunting I think my stepfathers most harrowing experience was with a pack of wild dogs. I think they were hunting pheasant, it was a bird at least. him and his friend. My stepfather climbed onto a rock for a better view of things, his friend continued down the hill/mountain. From where he was my stepfather saw a pack of wild dogs start moving in on his friend. fortunately he signaled him and he ended up climbing another rock. Can't remember the end, but he said it was not one you'd want a repeat of.

Many, Many years ago, I had a great uncle who hunted wolves with a pack of greyhounds. I never saw them in action but my grandfather said they were savage.

i've seen 15 wolves in a pack
they would overwhelm any pack of hunting dogs

Wolves suck!!!! thats putting it pretty plain but thats how I feel about them.

Wisconsin Wolves
This was posted on an Illinois DNR site
n 2008, the state encompassed at least 150 packs of at least two wolves, including several packs in areas of central Wisconsin that contain few large blocks of forest, according to the DNR.

During 2008, 32 farms reported losing livestock to wolves. Those losses included 39 cattle killed and four injured, along with one sheep, one pig, two chickens, a llama and a penned deer killed. In addition, 22 dogs were killed and six injured.

In 2009, through Sept. 26, at least 25 dogs were killed by wolves and 10 injured, according to the DNR. The majority of dogs were hounds used in bear hunting but the toll included two beagles, two dachshunds, a German shorthair pointer and a Sheba Inu. At least 27 farms reported livestock losses, which included 35 cattle killed and two injured, three sheep, two donkeys and one horse killed. At least one wolf was killed by a farmer defending his livestock.

The DNR reported finding 94 dead wolves in 2008. Of those, 39 were problem animals trapped and euthanized by government trappers, 22 were struck by automobiles and 14 were illegally killed - many during the gun deer season.

bringing the wolves back was a train wreck waiting to happen and it has happened !!!!!!!!!!!!


www.african-montana-taxidermy.com

kudu56:

What you say is an attractive idea and the word "wolfhound" sounds good. Here's my concerns about how well it would work - Our wolves (Called the "Canadian gray timber wolf" is much bigger than the European wolves of history. Also- the so called " wolf hounds" are the likes of the Russian or Persian wolfhounds -Ever see them ? Want to try them up against a timber wolf? Even aside from the fact that they look kind of puny (even in a pack) they are "sight" hounds who always hunted in front of a bunch of hunters prepared to back them up almost as soon as they caught up with the wolves. So what other "wolfhound" do we have? I'm glad you asked! It's the Irish wolfhound - bred not to hunt wolves but to guard the sheep flocks -and be big enough to kill a wolf in mano a mano battle. (Yes, he's a perfectly gentle breed nowadays and small toddlers ride on his back - but he still has the genes -and showing him a wolf might get the juices stirring! (By way of full disclosure -I'm Irish)

You related to that other Irishman, this O'bama fellow from county Kenya?

Rich

Seriously, we have the answer in Africa today. Rhodesian Ridgebacks. If we had a little bit bigger place to kennel them, I'd have about a six-pack to hunt the big coyotes we have in Idaho.

quote:

but he still has the genes -and showing him a wolf might get the juices stirring!

I like the Rhodies to! If I ever have another dog, I would love to have a Ridgeback. My son runs about 7 lion hounds, now that there are wolves pretty much every where in the western half of Wyoming he has to be cautious.

quote:

That's despite the killing of more than 500 wolves in 2009,

That's what I would call a good start. IMO, they could open the wolf season year round and you will never get rid of them with conventional means. But it would control them one heck of alot better.

Let's go wolf hunting!

Cane Corsos pictured below:

There always the Russian Wolfhound, Mastiff, German "imported" Danes and several other eastern european breed of livestock breeds.
I would think that if one was serious enough about protecting, livestock and perhap's coursing wolves, he would cross-breed Deutsch Drahthaar, Scottish deerhound and Irish Wolfhounds.