First post in a while, can't access the site fro work anymore (damn firewall).

Anyway, my wife finally got off work to go hunt, and due to all the hunter traffic, we decided she would take the first thing to come out, an average East Texas doe. Morning hunt of Thanksgiving day, and the only 4 days this year we can harvest doe/antlerless in Houston County. Also, a well deserved thanks to Seafire for his Blue-Dot experiments, as she used her pre-64 featherweight .243 with 87 gr. Hornadys @ 2550 fps. Right through the heart about 50 yds out, and only made about 20 yds. There have been a few sightings of a 13 pointer in the area where the blind is, so we'll see if we can get her wallhanger too...





As for ending my dry spell, this is the first (deer) hunt I've even been on in 3 years, so I re-emerged in proper fashion, 4 Nov, opening day evening hunt. About 60 yds out, clean lung hit with a Rem 700 .270, 130 Hornadys @ 3100. Funny thing though, the only blood found at first was the spray on the bush behind where he was standing. Didn't find more till we got into the heavy brush about 30 yds away, and he made about 60 yds total. Also won the biggest rack pot for opening weekend, so I had my taxidermy down payment too! 15 1/2" inside, and lost 2 points, probably fighting, since they have been gone for a little while. The lease manager has been there since 1968, and this is the biggest deer he's ever seen from this lease. But, then he goes and gets an 11 pt, 17" inside the next weekend.



I also got a button buck Thanksgiving weekend, had to bloody my Big-Bore 375 Win. Foggy morning, 100 yds out, 220 Hornady over 37 gr RL-7, peep sight; broadside lung shot, DRT.

Long post, but finally got something to show off!

Mike,

Congrats and thanks for the Blue Dot mention...

It is things like this, that make it all worthwhile....

congrats to the little woman....

cheers
seafire

That doe looks like a fawn.

Plinker

quote:

Originally posted by just-a-hunter:
Congratulations!!!

That deer of your wife's, will make some way awesome table fare.

Sounds like ya'll had a lot of fun.

Todd

It might be good tablefare, but poor game management to shoot them that young. It happens, but a picture like that is detrimental to the public image of hunting. Shooting button bucks is one less that will never grow up to get a chance to be a trophy because they are just plain witless at that age and no challenge to a mature hunter.

Dodis, you showed your wife with hers, how about a picture of you and your buton buck? Did you get a picture of that?

Plinker

Plinker,

Game management can mean different things in different areas of the country. Perhaps the deer are so plentiful where this hunt took place that taking does, fawns, etc is not an issue of poor management but good management. Each area is different!

Also, deer have typically smaller body sizes in Texas.

Most deer I have killed were aged 2 years old and not particularly large. I've gotten a few 10 year old does, but not many. My buck this year was just a 2 year old 6 point. But he is still a trophy to me, it was the first deer I ever shot with a rifle.

I think based on the smile of Mike's wife she was very happy with her trophy, yes, that deer is a trophy, who ever forgets their first?

Congrats to both, they are fine trophies in my book.

Hey Dodis, Congratulations to both you and your wife.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
Plinker,

Game management can mean different things in different areas of the country. Perhaps the deer are so plentiful where this hunt took place that taking does, fawns, etc is not an issue of poor management but good management. Each area is different!

Also, deer have typically smaller body sizes in Texas.

Most deer I have killed were aged 2 years old and not particularly large. I've gotten a few 10 year old does, but not many. My buck this year was just a 2 year old 6 point. But he is still a trophy to me, it was the first deer I ever shot with a rifle.

I think based on the smile of Mike's wife she was very happy with her trophy, yes, that deer is a trophy, who ever forgets their first?

Congrats to both, they are fine trophies in my book.

Thank you Ann, i DO value your opinion. I once posted a picture of what i thought was a big deer and you pointed out that it was only a yearling, although it had several points. I learned from that because it prompted me to do some research on aging deer and to pay attention and i found you were right.

That young of a deer might be okay for his wife to shoot if she is inexperienced. But for that big of a man to casually mention shooting a button buck, creates a ridiculous image in my mind. Would make a very very sorry picture. I'm sorry to hear of a button buck getting killed that would have the potential to grow up and BE a wallhanger which his wife might get a chance at later on.

Plinker

Plinker,
I understand what you mean, but in this area of the state, when does are seen running with a buck, it is usually a half-dozen or more. Most of the guys on the lease (timber company land) have seen groups more like 12 or more when they are not running alone, and all about the same size. There is also quite a bit of National Forest land in the area, where does are not allowed to be taken at all, and many only see does all season. Couple that with the generations of families that have lived and hunted these areas all their lives (quite a few hunting all year long-poaching, though that is rapidly decreasing), plus highway mortality; I usually see at least 2-3 per trip. The recent changes by TPWD to antler harvest have already started showing promise, as evidenced by my big buck, and the others harvested this year. They are also only allowing does/antlerless deer for the 4 days of Thanksgiving weekend, and archery season. The lease manager has been on that lease since 1968, and his and mine are the biggest he's ever seen there.

As for the button buck, I too would rather that it had been a doe. It was larger than the deer running with it, but at 100 yds. in a lifting fog, it looked like a pair of does. If I had binoculars strong enough to have seen the half-inch bumps on his head, I would not be able hold them still enough to see them anyway.

I have seen larger does from other areas of the state, but these were on private properties where they follow the old mentality of not shooting ANY does, to attract more bucks in from their neighbors. On one such ranch, it was common to see 40-60 does every time the feeders went off, and their limiting bucks to 8 pt or better left quite a few cull bucks the keep breeding all the extra does. And in some areas of the Hill Country, I have seen basket racks that came from tiny deer. A friend's father went as a guest, and got an 11 point with a whopping 8" spread. So, region has a lot to do with sizes in Texas.

So, ultimately, I would hope that the new TPWD regs will help improve the size of the deer by properly limiting harvest, and they are also encouraging taking of 'cull' bucks (3 points or less), to improve quality.

And, here is a pic of the button-buck, he was the same size as the doe my wife got, and running with a smaller deer. This was just a cell phone pic, didn't bother to drag out the camera for this one.

That young of a deer might be okay for his wife to shoot if she is inexperienced. But for that big of a man to casually mention shooting a button buck, creates a ridiculous image in my mind. Would make a very very sorry picture. I'm sorry to hear of a button buck getting killed that would have the potential to grow up and BE a wallhanger which his wife might get a chance at later on.
----------------------
Plinker, Let's start from the back to the front. Your current image of deer management doesn't fit the Texas situation too well. It takes nutrition to grow decent headgear, so the population needs to be kept below, often well below, carrying capacity. Usually, that is done by a combination of hunter kill, natural predation, and winter kill. In most places in Texas, none of those conditions prevail. It's leased land so the hunter density is kept low; the predators have mostly been killed off or, if not, they're kept at very low densities; and winter kill (winter itself) is nonexistant. The deer herds grow and grow, and each individual deer is on reduced rations and unable to get the extra calcium and minerals to grow big antlers. The only way to get the herd below carrying capacity is to kill does (and including button bucks in that is a good idea as well as natural misidentification of the wee guys as does).

Then, your concept of 'big guys should only kill big deer' is pretty limited, don't you think? Hunting isn't a contest with you or anyone else as an external judge. Hunting is something done by one's self, for one's self. Where a lot of tags are available, such as TX, there is no management reason not to take small deer, and certainly no ethical commandment set in granite and carried off the mountain.

It is a big country and there is no 'one size fits all' rule for either game management or hunting.

Dodis --

Congratulations to you and your wife. That was a nice buck for sure and getting her first deer is wonderful. I remember my first was a yearling doe but I was quite proud (and pretty young).

You are not the first person to mistake a button buck for a doe, but you are a fine gentleman to admit it and discuss your hunt with someone who has attacked your hunt and your wife's. Thank you.

Well....it can happen. Glad you didn't try for it. That one looks smaller than your wifes, though, for some reason. LOL.

Plinker

Charles,
Thank you for your support, too. I just noticed a similar discussion going on right now, right next to this one, Doe first.... In there it is mentioned doe only seasons, as said, we do have in Texas. South texas has doe/antlerless season after regular season ends, for 16 days, in addition to being able to take does from the start of archery season. There are also some East Texas counties (further east than me), that are doing a muzzleloader antlerless season after regular season, 16 days.

Plinker,
Maybe because she only comes up to my chin???

Mike

Congratulations on a nice start back in the field. Your wife sure looks like a happy hunter.

quote:

As for the button buck, I too would rather that it had been a doe. It was larger than the deer running with it, but at 100 yds. in a lifting fog, it looked like a pair of does. If I had binoculars strong enough to have seen the half-inch bumps on his head, I would not be able hold them still enough to see them anyway.

Hey Dodis, I know exactly what you are talking about. Quite often it is nearly impossible to tell and in some situations it can be illegal, at places I've hunted.

I remember a particular Herd of what appeared to be Doe coming directly toward me one day from a Silent Man Drive. I managed to kill a lot of Doe in that bunch, but one turned out to be a Button Head. Had no idea until I got up to it to drag it out.

Also remember numerous times of the Fog lifting in the Swamps and barely seeing Deer right at 45-30min before Sunrise. Legal to begin 1 hour before sunrise there if you can see them.

Many times a HIGH Power Scope had to be cranked up to see if there was a small Buck amongst all the Doe. A 3x-9x scope was/is totally worthless for this situation.

From time to time it does happen that a Button Buck or Spike gets blasted away.