Me and my brother have been debating on these two for a public land elk hunt next year in colorado. In regard to recoil,energy and gun weight. Largest caliber we have shot is 30.06(had to have a limbsaver put on that),but want more knockdown than that. This isn't something we will get to do very often so we want to make the best of it. Two guns we were considering:.338 Bar with muzzlebrake& Remington CDL in 35 whelen. Bar is heavy w/scope,Remington CDL lighter w/good buttpad. Any thoughts on these or suggestions would be appreciated. In other words help!

Sorry that is not very often and 45/70 in a marlin w/ hard plastic buttpad sold that quick after a few shots off the bench (still regret that)a good pad would have helped there. I'll proof read before I post next time.

Both of them will do the job admirably. I use a .338 in a Ruger #1 and my favorite load uses a 250 Nosler PT.

If those two rifles are your only options, I would go with the Remington but only after some modifications. I am not a fan of muzzle brakes.

Don't go with the Whelen unless you are going to reload for it .

Why the BAR ? There are plenty of bolt 338 s that are lighter and handier . The recoil of a 338 with standard factory cartridges is highly overated.....

Inasmuch as you had to have a limbsaver on your 30-06, I don't think the additional recoil is going to suit you very well and flinching is not condusive to killing elk with any caliber...

Additionaly, the 30-06 is more than ample for killing the largest of elk, I have killed a lot of elk with the 30-06 and for what its worth a 180 Nosler or 200 gr. Nosler will shoot through an elk lengthwise half the time and always into the heart lung area, on a going away shot...I have shot several cape buffalo with a 30-06.

That 30-06 won't let you down and no matter what caliber you shoot you still have to put the bullet in the right spot...The 06 has been killing elk every year and is still the most used elk rifle in most states.

30-06 will work fine.

Do you reload?

If so, I would load up some 200 gr. Partitions or 180 gr. TSX Barnes or the 180 gr. Fail Safes and go elk hunting.

I went with a .338 for my elk gun but I reload and I had to start with 338-06 velocities and work up to where I could tolerate the recoil from real .338 loads. Almost all of my hunting locally was and still is done with my .257 Roberts. There was a noticeable diffence between "The Bob" and the .338

I now use the .338 for a lot more of my hunting not just elk.

I'm going to go along with Ray on this one. If you handload your ammo, you can make the good old 30-06 substantialy more powerful than the current garbage the factories are putting out concerning velocity. It seems as if they have downloaded the cartridge even more than before.
However, if you are stuck with using factory ammo only, theck out federals High Energy ammo amd Hornady's Light Magnum ammo for the 30-06. They put the grand old 30-06 into the near magnum range and Federal's stuff comes with wavrious premium bullets, if those are your thing. I don't know if Hornady uses anything but their Interlock bullet in their Light Magnum ammo.
You know? Ols Col. Whelen said it best years ago when he said, "The 30-06 is never a mistake." You do realize that sometime during the next year, it will be 100 years old. You gotta be good to last that long.
Paul B.

raybass

Given what you have written I think you would be better served with your '06 as others have advised. With modern factory loads such as Federal TSX, TBBC, Nosler Partition you'll have no problem killing almost anything with any reasonable shot. My choice would be the 338 WM but if you don't shoot it well there is no object in even going afield with it.

Mark

Stick with the 30-06...

If recoil is an issue stay with the 30-06. It will be plenty.

Thanks for the advice I sold the 06 to get a new rifle. Bought a Kimber 84M in .308 have thought about using it for elk with some of the high energy loads 180gr. partition,TBBC or the 150gr.xxx shock from federal. Any suggestions there. Just got it back from kimber it shoots really well now(great customer service). Althuogh I would have to try them and see which one shoots minute of elk(300yds. my limit). Thanks again any experience here would help as I do not want to injure and not retrieve an elk.

My first big game rifle was chambered in a .308 win.

I used the 165gr. high energy Federal TBBCs for Caribou, Black Bear, and deer. The 180grs will certainly kill an elk without any trouble IF you place the bullet in the vitals.

Not my 1st choice but the .308 will kill elk. You don't really need the HE loads either. I would go premium 165gr & keep your shots under 250yds, dead elk.

The Browning BAR would be the last rifle I would choose in 338, because it's so heavy. The 35 Whelen is a great choice if you are recoil shy.

Muzzle breaks are ok at the range when no one else is around, and suck when there is. I would never hunt with one installed on a rifle.

I think a better choice for the both of you would be the 300 Win Mag. Recoil is tolerable, and trajectory is flat. So many over-the-counter choices, I don't know where I'd start. But right now, you should be able to buy Remington ammo on sale for cheap, and then you could practice, practice, practice.

The 30-06 is hard to beat in North America, as close to perfect as it gets. An '06, 200 grain Noslers, my reloads, and I'd hunt anything in North America, if that's all I had.

The 338 Win Mag is my favorite cartridge.

We(me and my brother)talked it over again pretty much decided to go with a .338 win mag. I believe if we set up the gun with a good pad try a few rounds thru it and if the kick is rough we'll have a recoil reducer(mercury)put in it. Hopefully that won't be neccesary. I just have to try it . Worse thing could happen we'll sell it,now the fun part picking a rifle!

I'd be happy to use the 308 on elk the rest of my days and say that having taken more than one elk with a 338 WM. If you're having to resort to mercury reducers and other gimmicks the 338 WM isn't for you. Stick with what's comfortable for you not what some gun writer said was "ideal"... "ideal" only exists in a vaccum.

It sounds like you are just wanting to get a new rifle.

Not a thing at all wrong with that. There are hundreds of us that rationalize new gun purchases all the time.

If you are wanting some thing close to a .338 but a little more than a 30-06 and you do not reload.

I would suggest the new .325 WSM. It sounds like the perfect compromise for what you are looking for and I bet Browning makes one with a BOSS if you must have recoil reduction.

There's no reason any normal individual can't learn to handle a 338 . Part of the problem is subconcious fear from evry jazbo telling you it will kick like a mule , when in fact , a properly stocked 338 is not bad at all . A featherweight 06 with heavy loads will beat you up worse than a good fitting medium weight 338 with regular factory loads. A 12 guage with heavy pheasant loads can kick worse . For sure a light pump shooting slugs is worse .

If you are not reloading , start out weith the ligher bullet loads 200 to 225 , and no heavy mag or high energy stuff .

Use muffs and a cheater pad when shooting from the bench .

Contrary to some opinions , a moderate monte carlo type stock will handle recoil better than some of the classic comb types , if they fit you I am long armed and long necked and a monte carlo works very well for me .

Goes without saying , but make sure your scope has plenty of eye relief.

[quote]If you're having to resort to mercury reducers and other gimmicks the 338 WM isn't for you. Stick with what's comfortable for you

You should print that in big letters and staple it to your forehead. And I use a .338. Great round, love it but it is no death ray without proper bullet placement. I'd take a well contructed bullet from a .308 through the vitals of an elk over a misplaced .338 slug every time.

Jeff

Well I think you've gotten some really good advice so far.

If the '06 was uncomfortable then how are you with the .308W ? What wheight bullets have you tried?

If I could offer up my opinion to add to the stir it would be this. If the recoil is an issue, stick to the .308W and use 165gr. TSX or 180gr. Nosler Partitions or TSX's. Learn to shoot it well, and use the money you were going to use on a new rifle to buy the perfect scope for the Kimber. If you still have extra $$$, buy some Swarovski bino's.

Now if you are justifying a new rifle, thats different. You've convinced me already!

I disagree with JBabcock on the .300WM being a good choice for a recoil sensitive person. I do think, as he said, most people can learn to handle recoil. Some can't. I love the .338WM and would love to recommend it as I don't think there is a much better choice for elk. BUT, It does kick, and so do the various other "mags". If you want a bit more oomph you might also start looking at the 7mm RM as it will really shine with 175gr. bullets on elk. You have many good choices available, but really it does come back to the recoil issue( or is it a non-issue?), and are you really just wanting a new rifle.

If you aren't going to go elk hunting very often I'd not recommend you buy a rifle just for it. There are many other things where money is well spent. ( like bino's, bag, and boots!)

As usual, it's JMHO for free. Nate

If you are recoil sensitive I would go with 35 Whelen. I personaly use 9,3x62 - it is slightly more powerful and the best medicine for tougher animals. But as other mentioned the
30-06 is enough caliber for elk (just use 200gr
Oryx, Nosler)

Raybass,
I own both, a 338WM and a 35 Whelen. The 338 has a much quicker jab than the whelen with factory ammo (more of a push than a jab). The largest game I have shot with the whelen are 2 Kudu. I used Federal actory ammo 225gr TBBC and the rifle is one of the most accurate I own. It is a Rem Classic with a 22" barrel. The 338 has more downrange power at long distance but the 35 whelen has good killing ability with a lower velocity bullet. If you have any specific questions pm me. I definitely wouldn't recommend the BAR as it is extremely heavy if you are going to hike very far.
Ralph
Ralph

I guided elk hunters here in CO for over 20 years. My advice to the question you are asking was, and remains, if you are not already shooting a magnum, and shooting it well, don't buy one for elk. I saw more problems (spelled lousy shooting) from guys shooting magnums than anything else. Accurate shooting kills elk. THE '06 IS ALL YOU WILL EVER NEED FOR ELK unless you plan to become a long range shooter. The .308 with 180 gr premium bullets is an elk killer. A friend of mine, a native of here, has used one for nearly 50 years, and he has killed more elk than most hunters will ever see. If you think you just gotta have a bigger gun, get your hands on one somehow and go to the range. See what your shoulder and your targets tell you.

Have tried both the 35 and the 338. Neither are magic and kill well only with good shot placement. I am back to the '06 and relieved to be there. Save yourself the trouble!

Yes a new gun does sound good and the 06 I had wore a hard plastic butt plate. After I had a pad put on 180gr. loads did not bother me at all. I would like to have an over 30 cal. rifle just have never shot one so curiosity is up and I do not know anyone that has one. I have shot a slug gun with 3" mags in it .How does that compare to the 35 whelen or 338 win?

Buy a 10 pound, or heavier, 375 H&H. That way when you kill the elk that Brown bear was stalking, you have something to say to the Brown bear...;-)

gs

Thanks for all the good advice fella's. I'll let ya'll know what happen's. Maybe that parker-hale 30.06 I seen in a pawn shop the other day, the blueing was perfect and wood was fair for $199 think it had a 24" barrel. By the way don't even want to see any brown bears!!!

raybass

A typical 12 gauge shooting 3 inch slug loads kicks like a mule with dynamite packed in his shoes , compared to either a Whelen or a 338 with a good stock .

quote:

A typical 12 gauge shooting 3 inch slug loads kicks like a mule with dynamite packed in his shoes , compared to either a Whelen or a 338 with a good stock .

Amen to that.

Jeff

I think the 35 Whelen is a waste of time. It's a Great Motherhood Theory cartridge, in that somehow it's supposed to provide less recoil and greater performance all at the same time, but in reality it gives you less of just about everything.

Quite honestly, I think that the 30-06, when loaded to potential with 180 or 200 gr. bullets will do all that the 35 Whelen will do on any and all big game anywhere in the world.

The 338 Win. Mag. is just as balanced as the 30-06 is, but it's greater case capacity and the greater sectional density of it's bullets provides exactly the level of performance that's need to take performance to the next level over the fine 30-06, yet recoil is still reasonable, and ammo is available world-wide.

The 338 Win. Mag. is , quite simply, one of the world's greatest all-around big game cartridges, and if I could only have a 338 Win. Mag. for all of my hunting (except for buffalo, elephant, hippo, and rhino), I'd take it and never ever look back. I wouldn't miss the '06, either, since the 338 will do all that it'll do, plus a good deal more..........

AD

I'm with Brad. The .308 will be fine. I have downed more than a few elk and moose with a .308, and so have my two sons, all with 180-gr. Nosler Partitions. I would have no qualms about the 168-gr. TSX, either. I've used the .30-06 also, with excellent results. You'll find it easier to put the bullet in the right place with a gun that doesn't kick you into next week, and putting the bullet in the right place is the most important factor.

I think that there are some excellent points made here; IF, you can comfortably shoot a .338, it is about the finest Elk-Moose, etc. cartridge going. It is fairly easy to master and my favourite cartridge by far, along with the 9.3x74R and the .280 Rem. plus handloaded .45-70s.

If, you have trouble with the recoil and more people do than will admit it, then an .'06 is the best choice and even the .308 will, as John says, "whack 'em and stack 'em".

I have a lot of rifles (because I am SICK!), but, I would be quite content with a pair of .338s using the 250 NP. Actually, I seldom use anything else when seriously hunting and hhope to gain the self-discipline to sell off all my other rifles........someday...........

quote:

Originally posted by allen day:
I think the 35 Whelen is a waste of time. It's a Great Motherhood Theory cartridge, in that somehow it's supposed to provide less recoil and greater performance all at the same time, but in reality it gives you less of just about everything.

Quite honestly, I think that the 30-06, when loaded to potential with 180 or 200 gr. bullets will do all that the 35 Whelen will do on any and all big game anywhere in the world.

The 338 Win. Mag. is just as balanced as the 30-06 is, but it's greater case capacity and the greater sectional density of it's bullets provides exactly the level of performance that's need to take performance to the next level over the fine 30-06, yet recoil is still reasonable, and ammo is available world-wide.

The 338 Win. Mag. is , quite simply, one of the world's greatest all-around big game cartridges, and if I could only have a 338 Win. Mag. for all of my hunting (except for buffalo, elephant, hippo, and rhino), I'd take it and never ever look back. I wouldn't miss the '06, either, since the 338 will do all that it'll do, plus a good deal more..........

AD

Agree with you about the .338WM. It's easy to load for it, has lots of bullets to choose from, and with 250-grain bullets it has similar trajectories as the 30-06 with 180-grain bullets. The .338WM is perhaps the most popular cartridge in Alaska, right up there with the .30-06 and the .300WM. I only have and use a .338WM rifle for all my hunting up here.

On the other hand I bought a 35whelen this summer and after doing so sold my 338win. I've now taken 3 animals with the 35 and couldn't be happier