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Truth be told, any modern center fire cartridge sighted in at 150 yards, between .243 rem and .460 weatherby, fired at deer, and only deer, using good hunting bullets within 150 yards will have no remarkable difference from any other cartridge ballistically or to the deer. Dead is dead. Sight in at 150 yards and shoot the deer. At that distance you should be able to hold where you want the bullet to go and let her fly. That is taking no other factors into account. Woods density, terrain, recoil, body armor and shooter error aside. Open ground shooting at deer. Not shooting through trees or grass or any other object except air. So what's all this stuff about how good one cartridge is over any other? It just don't matter. Go get a rifle you feel comfotable shooting and toss all the others out the window. ______________________ Are you gonna pull those pistols or whistle Dixie? | ||
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Well, yes & no, you have toconcider hunting conditions in your statement. Your deer will certainly die from even a .22cf up, but the distance you will have to track them will vary (assuming body hits). Smaller/lighter bullets will also limit your shot choices. So for me, size does matter.  LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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yea, me too. It's not a question of kill-ability but how soon they die and how far they run. Some places I hunt, it would not be good for a deer to make it too far since there are high bluffs. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Wonder what caliber fredj"338" favors? I agree with 45Otto, except that the heavier calibers with the tough bullets, while they will certainly kill the deer, will also tend to give the slowest kills and allow the deer to go further from the point at which it was shot. But your basic premise that it doesn't much matter whether your cartridge is long or short, skinny or fat, or uses a 6mm or a .45" slug, it's a fully adequate deer cartridge. But think what fun we'd be missing if we didn't argue the fine points of the negligible differences! | |||
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Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! If Wifezilla ever figures that out, I'm screwed! Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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45otto: You know, you are absolutely correct, BUT and this is a big BUT, look how much fun we would be missing trying to figure out which is the best caliber. I started out hunting deer with a 244 Remington, I progressed to such things as a 7mm Rem Mag, a 300 Win Mag, a 300 Wby Mag, etc. etc. The deer did not get any deader. But I sure had fun learning about new cartridges and I sure as hell had a better gun for longer ranges. There are just better applications for certain cartridges. I shot the biggest deer I ever killed with that .244 Remington and a 90 grain bullet. However, given the choice I now prefer something larger. Like maybe my new .270 WSM. Having said that, you know what I have on order? A plain Jane everyday 30-06. Since this is the 100th year of that cartridge being offered and since Remington is making a limited edition of the CDL for it I just had to have one. Go figure! R Flowers | |||
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Shot placement and bullet construction are the most important considerations. I recently got 3 deer; 2 on one day with a .30/06 and one the next day at 360 yards with a .22/250. Of the 3 deer, it was the one shot once through both lungs and out the other side with a .22/250 that dropped where it stood; the others ran a few yards before they fell. | |||
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45otto ----- On Deer with your parameters you are correct in my opinion, assuming you made that perfect shot you are talking about. On larger, tougher or dangerous game and in all weather conditions as well as differing terrain the chamberings get a much closer consideration.  Good shooting.phurley | |||
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Ok, all that in mind, what would be a good all-around caliber for big game? One good for any condition, terrain, etc. If you could have only one rifle, what would it be? Mike | |||
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30.06 Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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If I had to consider all big game including the great bears, Cape Buffalo, etc., it would be the .375 H&H Magnum if it had to do it all. | |||
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450tt0, I'll piss more people off...from antelope to moose...pick anything from a 270 to a 35 whelen and for 90+% of he time it won't make a difference... Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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JWB72 ----- I don't want to highjack 45otto's thread, another currant post alludes to that very question, but I will answer for myself. I would pick the .358 STA, which I consider superior to the .375 H&H that most people figure is the best all around chambering for the worlds game. I would take it anywhere anytime in any weather and consider myself well armed. I would load it with 225, 250 and 270 grain North Forks and might thrown in a 310 grain Woodleigh for good measure and talk Mike Brady at North Fork into making me a 270 grain solid. Hot damn, look out Selous, here I come.  Good shooting.phurley | |||
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Wow, if I could only have one rifle, for everything in NA, it would be a .338winmag. If Africa were in play, I would have to go .375h&h just because of the DG. A bit heavy for sheep & such but would certainly get the job done. Bigger bullet make bigger holes baby!  LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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One planet one cartridge --- .375 H&H One continent (N.Am) one cartridge --- .30-06 I still get by just fine with my little .308!  Member NRA, SCI- Life #358 28+ years now! DRSS, double owner-shooter since 1983, O/U .30-06 Browning Continental set. | |||
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My 22-250 will kill deer as well as my .375 H&H, but I have more "balanced" choices in my gun safe. Location, terrain, hunting pressure, etc are considered when I reach for a rifle to collect venison. As I age, I'm preferring a medium bore, medium velocity cartridge shooting somewhat heavy for caliber, high SD bullets like 140 grainers in 6.5x55 & .260 Rem. I even have slowed my 7mm Rem Mag down a bit by using 175 grainers. Hit 'em hard, drive it deep BH1 There are no flies on 6.5s! | |||
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I must say I'm surprised at how many of you actually believe smaller calibers kill as well as larger calibers. I will agree that it is possible to site examples of a small caliber killing Deer where they stand. And the same can be said for larger calibers. In each case, the proper bullet must be used in order to achieve those results. The problem in quoting a few examples is it doesn't mean a whole lot. In order for the argument to have reasonable validity, a large number of kills must be made with each caliber. Once that is done, the advantage of larger calibers becomes clear. | |||
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One cartridge for NA? Hmmmm....if the big bears and free roaming bison are included (or if any hunting is to be done in areas populated by these critters), I think the .338 has to be viewed as the minimum. As to the other question on this thread, I think a .243 to a deer's lungs kills a whole lot better than a .458 to his guts...but I don't see how anyone can believe a smaller hole kills as well (read: quickly) as a bigger one in the same vital area. JMHO, John | |||
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45otto placed an original post talking about killing "DEER" and I agree with him fully. DEER are thin skinned relatively low density boned animals. I exclusivley hunt DEER with a 243 and 25\06. With a well placed, properly constructed bullet from either, a deer sized animal just took a dirt nap. Free men should not be subjected to permits, paperwork and taxation in order to carry any firearm. NRA Benefactor | |||
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Back to the original subject. To "kill" a deer (and I think as responsible hunters we mean to kill as quickly and efficiently as possible) one must put a bullet through a vital area and do a lot of damage to that vital area. I have shot deer with 250 grain factory ammo from a .35 whelen and those bullets passed through the deer without doing a lot of damage inside them. The energy of those bullets went into the ground. They all died but not as quickly and effectivly as I would have liked. I have shot deer and pronghorn with a .243 and there was no exit hole and often no blood trail. They all died but it was difficult to find some (one buck was not found till a couple days later when the ravens were on him). If you golf you know that you can hit a ball with any club in the bag. But there are times when one club will be a better choice than the others. Robin down under | |||
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 "...and toss all the others out the window."?  Good hunting, Andy ----------------------------- Thomas Jefferson: “To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” | |||
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duffy4, that's the best analogy yet; you can hit a golf ball w/ any club but diff. clubs for diff. situations. I'ld rather use my .280 for deer & leave the .243 in the varmint bag. LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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6mm rem, 6.5x55, 6.5-284, 270 win, 280 rem, 30-338 wm, 338-06, 35 whelen. That's the golf bag. More than one shooter at the tee. At the creek the magnum gets the nod. In the pine forrest and the whelen or the 338-06 depending on the coin toss. The wife gets the .270 and Emily will use the swede. I haven't used the 280 since willow river but that is a different set of circumstances. The 6.5-284 is for the really long open shots. Not many of them in the northern woods. Might do well from the truck window though  . Everyone of them will kill them dead with one shot when I do my job correctly. | |||
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