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280 AI, 265 yards, 160 Partition  [/IMG]7mm Rem Mag, 139 SST Hornady Superformance, 140 yards  [/IMG] | ||
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I'm a short range meat hunter. Most everything I shoot is 200 yds. or under. The pix above is a perfect example of why I like bullets such as the Accubond at MV's of 2800 fps. or below. Two holes, controlled expansion, good blood trails. I have found the Hornady SST's to be much to frangible for my tastes. Best GWB | |||
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From my point of view, the 160 grain Partition did what I like a bullet to do. The 139 grain Hornady on the other hand, for my style of hunting failed. I enjoy antelope meat, and that wasted way too much meat. Again that is just my opinion. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I dunno what ya call it but I don't like what the SST did Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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it broke apart. the first one looks just like the 139 hornady interlock does at 2875 in my 7x57 ackley, in either deer or elk. the second one is worse than the experiences i've had with the 139 interbond at near 3k. i prefer to just use the interlock at the 2875 fps for elk down through coyotes. the partition looks to have done it's job at the velocity you used it at. but you far exceeded the velocity capability's of the more fragile sst. this could have happened with other brands of bullets too. | |||
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I have used 150g Partitions at just over 3000 fps in my 270 Win forever (40 years?), I used a 375 H&H 300g Swift A-Frame in my 375 Weatherby for my brown bear. A 300g Partition probably would have worked as well, but I chose the A-Frame. I shoot 570g TSX's and Barnes Banded Solids at 2300 fps in my 500 Jeffery, hard to imagine better bullets for it's purpose. In truth, I'm thinking of switch to North Fork bonded expanding bullets for all of my rifles if they shoot well in them. I'm not sure if North Fork makes a .510 caliber 570g or 600g bonded soft, but if they do I'm going to try them. We have an amazing amount of premium bullets out there now. Too many good choices  Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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In the two examples shown above, the Partition obviously performed correctly. The SST failed IMO. Yes, it killed the animal, but it didn't perform as expected. Another example of why the "Well it worked because it killed the animal" statement is incomplete. | |||
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I wouldn't be so quick to say that the SST failed. The SST was designed to be fairly soft, to have a high BC and to be extremely accurate. Its best use is in high velocity cartridges at long to very long range. At 250 yards and over it will give the type of terminal performance that you want on deer/elk sized animals where many other bullets including some Premium brands will fail to open properly. Even at 140 yards if this bullet had been placed 5 to 6" lower it would have resulted in an instant or near instant kill with minimal meat damage. In this case it appears that the bullet hit too high for a lung only shot and hit the spine, causing the explosive results we see here. 465H&H | |||
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465...you obviously speak from experience, as you're the only one so far to analyze it correctly. I figured some of the "experts" around here would have asked more questions about the sst, but instead all I've heard on this and other similar threads are commenst something like"they're much too fragile so I don't use them anymore". The 'lope was hit very high, app 2" below the top of the back. He was obviously spined, sending bullet fragments and bone scattering everywhere which is why there's so much damage. Nice work in spotting that. There's lots of bullets that will make a mess of things when hitting an animal like that. Kudos to you for recognizing this fact. | |||
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The problem with the SST bullet here is that there are lots of bullets that will NOT make a mess of things when hitting an animal like that. That was the point of my post. You can't always prevent hitting the animal in a bad spot like this one. But you can use a bullet that will give predictable results whether the animal is hit perfectly, or off just a bit like this one. | |||
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I would say they both did their job. There is no such thing as a programable bullet that will: 1. Determine what the individual user expects as a result. Some like energy dump in the animal and some like pass through. 2. Calculate what type of animal is being shot at the time, thin skinned or thicker. 3. Calculate exactly how much to expand based on terminal velocity. 4. Calculate the desired amount of penetration to provide for any angle shot. (especially based on Number 1) 5. Be manufactured EXACTLY the same from bullet to bullet to provide EXACT results. 6. Know that it is going to hit bone and change the reaction based on impact components. We as shooters do the best with the information we have. If we do that, all is fine. If we can accept that the Duiker may pop up when we have the 375H&H with solids loaded for the Cape Buff and a pencil pass through the Duiker is acceptable, then so be it. If you hit the Duiker in the shoulder and the front half comes apart, did the bullet fail, or is it just a decision we decided to live with when we loaded the gun with the solid? Larry "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson | |||
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I also wonder what we would see with the identical shot if we were using a Nosler Partition, North Fork soft or CEB non-con of the same weight, velocity and caliber. The exit may not be quite as gory but I suspect none of us would be very happy with the results. 465H&H | |||
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I'd bet you're right in regards to the partition. I've hit several aoudad like that and the carnage was more like a baseball, not a basketball. Your SST/BT opinion is right on the money IME. | |||
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Did th bullets fail? Not IMHO. The partition did what is normally expected, impact, nose blows off and the base continues on through with the expanded nose. The SST, impact and immediate expansion and as pointed out contact with hard bone and even more deterioration from the bullet. Which would I prefer, the top any day. That said I have also used the SST at lower velocities and at longer ranges with admirable results. However just like anything else I have tried in many years of loading, I learned the hard way on a few of them too. This was a .277 130gr SST loaded to a MV of 3000 FPS, impact was at around 250yds,  Did the bullet fail in this situation? IMO, not hardly. It made a mess, but considering the hide it hit on impact, I can hardly blame the bullet and it dropped this big hog on the spot. On the other hand, had it been a deer, and done this, I would be dropping the load like a hot potato. The load however was developed for sitting atop a levee and reaching out to 400yds or so in an effort to reduce the feral hogs population. It is extremely accurate and even at the longest ranges we have used it, does what we wanted it to do. Bring things up close and personal, it makes a mess, no and's, if's or but's about it. Mike / Tx | |||
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Nope! The choice of bullet for the application could/should have been different. That SST out of a 7x57 wouldn't have made that mess. Actually the SST works great for slower stuff, and particularily well out of Contenders. Choosing correctly is key. I don't care for frangible bullets because I don't shoot long range much. On the other hand, I'm not sure I'm impressed with the Barnes bullets either. They have worked on everything I've shot with them but the animals have not tipped over as fast, or it seems. I have some Nosler E-tips I've yet to use, and haven't even purchased the GMX. The hard part is predicting the shot you'll be offered. | |||
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Nope.. The failure (If any exists) was picking the wrong bullet.... It's not the bullet's fault when it does exactly what it was designed to do.... Think... A 7mm Mag at 140 yards into bone... That's THE most powerful 7mm cartridge out there... and it was still probably well over 3,000 fps on impact... An SST is a bullet I would lump in with what I would consider a "Conventional" bullet design.. made for an impact velocity somewhere between 1,800 and 2,500 fps... or what you would expect out of a 7mm mauser, 7-08, 308, 30-06, 30-30... Plain old Non-Magnum cartriges... or LONG range Magnums... like where you expected an HONEST 450+ yards.... In those situations - it does great.... Much better than the super heavy jacket bullets that are made to hold up to full on Magnum Blasto up close.... Run those super heavy jacket bullets down to 1,800-2,000 fps and they just pencil through without expanding or creating much wound cavity... where the SST will mushroom beautifully... Thanks | |||
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You take your pick and hope for the best !Yesterday I took a Red Deer in a culling operation at a preserve ,a 300 lb female. First blood for my finely made rolling block reproduction. 45-70,using Corbon's DPX [barnes 300 ,1900 fps] About 100 yds. A first for me as just as I squeezed she ran.  Bullet went too far back took out a rib , through and stopped against opposite hide. Still moving the second shot went through both shoulders smashing a good bit of bone.We did the major part of the butchering and will finish today. Last year I took one with the 225 Barnes in my M29 with excellent results . Excellent bullet performance but unfortunate placement. | |||
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No! Entrance and exit. I'm guessing a great blood trail or DRT. Exactly what I want. I'll trade lost meat for a lost animal any day. | |||
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No they didnt fail. Are they both perfect picks for those shots? Knowing what that SST did to that antelope would make me choose a different bullet for shooting them at that range or closer. -------------------- THANOS WAS RIGHT! | |||
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Anyone using a light for calibre at boyhowdylookwhatIcando velocity should know they're gonna make a mess. The only thing lacking is sticking a beer can in the hole and grinning like a baboon for the photo op so's everyone can see what a great hunter you are. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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Hmmm... Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | |||
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Take a look at this:  2008 Texas pronghorn. 234 yards, 150 grain SST from a 308. My opinion: the SST should be taken off the market. This buck took 4-5 shots to kill it. What you are looking at is the gaping hole that didn't penetrate any vitals when my buddy shot this animal the first time. The SST bullet performance is beyond ridiculous. I have never ever witnessed anything like this with any Nosler Btip I've used in over 20 years of use and a lot of deer. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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I would use the sst where I needed it to blow up. Knowing what the bullet does when it hits game it would be my fault and not the bullets if I applied it incorrectly in hunting situations. -------------------- THANOS WAS RIGHT! | |||
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It is not the car's fault but the driver's! I think the bullet is designed to achieve certain objectives. The SST hs a high BC & so it is said to be good for extreme long range shooting - 400 to 1000 meters. It is the hunter's responsibility to use the right ammo for the purpose. I do not use the SST. I have used the Nosler BT in the past and had mixed results. Now I mostly use Barnes TSX 140 r 150 gr for my 7mm08 and 160 gr Accubonds for my 280 Ack Imp. Deer drop dead on the spot most of the time. "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Why take them off the market? Once again... It seems like over and over... There's a giant race for the highest possible massive velocity.... when it's just not needed.... and especially trouble when the bullet isn't designed for an IMPACT velocity that high... It's been proven over and over and over and over and over again... Slower bullets penetrate deeper... Faster bullets expand faster and more explosively.... Sure - you can push 150g bullets 3,000 FPS out of a 30-06 or a 308... but that doesn't mean you get good penetration out of then... If you want DEEP penetration - slow down that 308 back to the old 2,600 fps military load... or even go 2,400 fps.... You will see deep, deep penetration even out of old fasioned, boring, conventional bullets that many seem to consider too "Fragile" any more.... I shot a 150g Sierra pro-hunter end for end through a deer this weekend out of a 7.62x39 bolt gun - running at a whopping 2,200 fps muzzle velocity... Went through both the spine where the neck/back joins and the rear leg bone... Recovered it under the hide of the back leg... Try doing that same thing with a 30-06 pushing 3,100 fps.... Probably would have splattered that deer all over the place... Would probably have blown the chest open.... Thanks | |||
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Apologies if it's just the photo but the placement looks high and angled on this? | |||
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It is the photo. The skin was torn on the backside as well and it's pulled upward. Shot placement was 1/3 down from spine, an attempt to drop the buck (high shoulder shot) Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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