I know this is a "quit yur bitchin'" type post, but I just tried to do my annual app for the drawing of a Montana Goat license, went to check out and there's a $16.97 "convenience" fee added on. On the site it states "A convenience fee is added to the FWP fee(s) to cover the cost of offering this service online. The fee is 2% of the total purchase amount plus $1.25."
Now I've never entered into the resident vs. non-resident brewhaha, but this enters the realm of usury. I'll mail a check thank you and keep my 16.97. 'Just tired of "convenience" fees, "environmental" fees, "disposal" fees, "shop supplies" fees, etc., etc.

It is convenient. I will pay the 16.97 for the ease of using the online application and a credit card.

I use my Cabelas card so I get $8 of goods for using that card.

ddj

This isn't a res vs. non-res issue. The convenience charge is to recoup what the credit card companies charge them to use their service. There is a convenience charge to use credit cards to purchase licenses even if you are standing at one of the FWP offices.

There is a gun shop here that has it posted in his shop that all prices are the cash price, add 3% for credit card.

Then it looks like you found the way around the convenience charge so...

Yup I bought a Resident migatory bird license online late last year and had to pay the "convience fee". It is on par with what the Credit card companies charge. I think the $1.25 is the actual convience fee.

I see it a lot on Gunbroker and smaller shops.

This year I got my tags at the FWP office and wrote a check.

Yeah, yeah. Y'all are right. 'Just hadn't had my second cup of coffee yet. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3FnpaWQJO0

Pennsylvania went the pother way on Net useage.

As they admit it's CHEAPER than dealing with paperwork.

Montana is fucking you.

But considering what I've read about Montana's tax structure I'm not really suprised. I wouldn't live there as a legal resident under any circumstances.

Not until after someone shoots about 2/3 of the politicians
there.

Wyoming? No problem.

AD

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:
Pennsylvania went the pother way on Net useage.

As they admit it's CHEAPER than dealing with paperwork.

Montana is fucking you.

But considering what I've read about Montana's tax structure I'm not really suprised. I wouldn't live there as a legal resident under any circumstances.

Not until after someone shoots about 2/3 of the politicians
there.

Wyoming? No problem.

AD

WOW

ddj

well mr degroot before you shoot all the politicians you better stop and think it was our democrat reps that got the surplus brass sales from the gov overturned and if you dont like our state just stay away most outofstaters are just like you misimformed

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:
Pennsylvania went the pother way on Net useage.

As they admit it's CHEAPER than dealing with paperwork.

Montana is fucking you.

But considering what I've read about Montana's tax structure I'm not really suprised. I wouldn't live there as a legal resident under any circumstances.

Not until after someone shoots about 2/3 of the politicians
there.

Wyoming? No problem.

AD

As a lifelong MT resident, I see this as a win-win situation.

I can understand FWP wanting to "re-coup" the fees that credit card companies charge, but I've also always wondered about this "convenience" fee. If I apply on line, I enter the data into their computer. If I send a paper application to them, they pay someone to enter the data into their computer. So isn't it more "convenient" for the hunter to enter the data into the computer? I guess I'm missing something here.

And then there is the rumbling heard every year about the 3-4 months interest money FWP makes on our application fees.

This isn't FWP's money to "re-coup"!!

It is the citizens of Montana's money.

We are All guilty of ascribing "ownership" to government agencies.

We own the "agency".

WE are the government and it is time,
WE The People,
take it back, whether in Montana or the remaining 49.

All these newly appearing fees are hidden TAXES.

Most state agencies are now getting to make such decisions without being defined by statute.

Taxation without representation, does that ring a bell?


Oh well, never mind, everybody can go back to sleep now and observe the "civilized" status quo.

Ignorance: as in ignoring the crumbling of our rights before our (closed) eyes ,is now the expected norm.

(Guess this shold be moved to the political forum.)

And then it started

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
And then it started

Hope waits eternal!

Time for a new tea party???

My issue is with personal property taxes and I would not live in any state that has it.

And I don't understand at all how anyone would put up with
it.

Frankly I see property takes as preventing true ownership of property, you spend a significant portion of your lifecome income on property (and interest on your mortgage)
but you don't ever actually own it what you "own" in many places is the "right" to "rent" it from whatever division of the government taxes the property.

another state that has personal property tax is Virginia and a friend showed me one of his old tax forms and they wanted a list of his audio equipment and even his record collection... He had just moved there and was horrified by the invasiveness of what they wanted to tax him on.

The tax itself was nearly trivial but...

What isn't the government not taxing you on?
the length of your dick?

How would you go about creating a properly progressive tax on your peter?

Would diameter be factored in?

Would more frequent use result in lower taxation (wear and tear) or higher taxation (a use fee)?

Trust me I'm sure some politician has thought if it...

would porn stars be able to deduct their peter tax as a buisness expense?

AD

AD, are there states without property taxes? I can assure you I like that idea, but can also assure you that without property taxes, which are somewhat stable in their predictability ( as to amount) and collection rates, state guvments would be toast financially.

I'd like the list of states without, I'll likely buy some property there just on principal.--I agree with yours by the way, I just happen to live in a state where I have been able to find the best ways to make a living that I could, and they have the property tax.

If memory serves doesn't Montana and other states that have personal property taxes seldom have a state sales tax?

ddj

You are correct. We do not have sales tax.

Allan,

Hows the elk, antelope, moose, bighorn and mtn goat hunting in PA??

FN in MT

Most likely about as good as his high mtn lake dry fly fish'n for cutts is...

Good to see that there is one less person in the drawing eh....grin

Hummm, OK, well if Montana sucks so bad then you should NEVER EVER come here! Obviously PA or Iowa or whatever is heaven on earth so; exactly why do you even care what a bunch of hilly-billy, big government, socialist, tax sucking, ripping off poor defenceless non-residents types do?

*&#@$%@!!! You DON'T live here, you don't put up with lower wages, long winters, and occationally completely insane legislators SO don't come here!!!! How ****ing simple is that?

Oh wait...you want to hunt moose, sheep, goat, elk, mule deer or big whitetails(on public land) pronghorn, lion, bear or fish various rivers and you think you should be able to do that "just because" or "without any EXCESSIVE fees" (by YOUR definition) since we're supposed to be sitting here with our tounges lolling out just waiting for you to condesend to spend some of your money here!

Oh, as far as ***hole politicians are concerned I'd put any of our idiots up against Arlan Spector any day...

Ah, now I feel better.

quote:

Originally posted by Fish30114:
AD, are there states without property taxes? I can assure you I like that idea, but can also assure you that without property taxes, which are somewhat stable in their predictability ( as to amount) and collection rates, state guvments would be toast financially.

I'd like the list of states without, I'll likely buy some property there just on principal.--I agree with yours by the way, I just happen to live in a state where I have been able to find the best ways to make a living that I could, and they have the property tax.

I said PERSONAL property taxes.
And it isn't the tax as much as it is the invasiveness of THEM wanting to know what you have to they can choose what to tax you for it.

I'm talking taxes to own a car (yes, even that yard ornament that hasn't run in 12 years)
your saddle any audio equipment you TV your furnature nd other appliances, etc.

Real estate taxes are everywhere.

Every tax has it's annoyance, but some are more invasive into privacy than others.

what I have inside my house is none of anybody's goddamned buisness.

As for Montana's Income tax from what I've seen of the tax scheduel if you qualify for the lowest tax bracket you must be a homeless person who hasn't managed to steal a shopping cart to carry your belongings.

So the "seven brackets" are to me kind of a sick joke.

The total taxes aren't much different than many other states, it's the way they are assessed that gets my goat.



AD

Allen you may be mistaken about Wyoming, It is my understanding that there is a personal property tax on residents items.
Besides the BS concerning additional fees and taxation, I would love to hunt Montana.
Rodney.

If you Google Montana property taxes you will find that personal property, as in household goods, are exempt.

As far as vechile taxes, well my truck just turned 11 and next year I will pay a one time fee and never have to pay auto/truck fees on it again. My travel/hunting trailer is exempt already. My wifes car is also exempt.

Real property taxes, generally reasonable except for "recreational" property. Real ranches do get a break but still pay pretty high rates, then again they're supposed to be a business... We have a small home and the tax is based on square footage and exterior appearance, they're not allowed in unless I want them to see the interior, ah, no... Total for 1500 sq. ft. $1,444.00 this year.

As far as business equipment, $15,000.00 exemption. 20+ years in the contracting business and never had to pay it. I rent or lease heavy equipment or scaffolds etc. as needed for a specific job. Since I do mostly interior finish work this rarely happens. I don't know any subs that pay the tax. I do know a a few general contrators that were so proud of their new "whatever" a few years back that wish like hell at this point they'd gone the lease/rent path rather looking at giving the Gradall back to the bank or paying taxes on something that is rusting...