The bullet failed when the deer I shot this year ran off, after what should have been a killing shot (I have already posted this story on another thread).
While I do not call the partition bullet mentioned in the story a failure, I do disagree with the "moral of the story". Any bullet will kill if the placement is perfect. The question is how the bullet will perform when the placement is less that perfect. The fact is that with the shoulder being so close to the heart, that a bullet may face little resistance or massive resistance. Another fact is that Weather Conditions, buck fever, less than perfect rests, or even bullet fliers, all can determine where the bullet strikes. I also believe that anyone who claims that they never missed or made a less than perfect hit is either a liar or hasn't hunted enough (even the experts miss occasionally). Its easy to say that all shots should be perfect, but the fact is that ain't going to happen.
What really bothers me is that everyone is concerned on how the bullet performs on paper, yet many give no thought to how the bullet performs on game. The good bullets perform under a wider set of circumstances, including shot placement. Any bullet that need ideal shot placement to bring down an animal is a failure in my book.
I have been reading with great interest the recent postings on bullet failures. I am reminded of an incident several years ago when I ran the gun and reloading department for a large sporting goods store. I was having a conversation with a longtime friend and customer, a man of great common sense and hunting experience, when a customer approached us with a recovered bullet in hand. He told the story of the elk kill and the run of a few yards before piling up and how he had recovered the bullet from the off side shoulder. The bullet in question was a 30 caliber 180 grain Nosler Partition with the lead ahead of the partition gone. The nose portion of the jacket had peeled back and rolled around the shank of the bullet. This gentleman was voicing his displeasure with the Nosler bullet, thinking that it should have a portion of the lead still attached to the front of the bullet. I attempted to explain that that was not uncommon in partitions depending on the circumstances of the shot and that the bullet had penetrated well and done it's job. My customer was not convinced. My friend chimed in with his uncommon common sense asking, "at what point during the death of that elk did the bullet fail?".
Posts: 993 | Location: Wasilla, AK | Registered: 22 December 2002
A lot of this bullet failure stuff may have been due to me posting my thoughts regarding Sierra Prohunter bullets. The last one I shot into a muley was a 130 grainer from a 270 loaded at 3000 fps. The shot was taken from 210 paces and entered behind the left shoulder between ribs--no bone was hit. The bullet exploded in the lungs just above the heart and (obviously) didn't exit. Although the buck was dead within a few yards I was appalled at the bullet's behavior. Had the shot been angled and had to penetrate a rib or 3, or the forward part of the abdomen---I might have had a very superficially wounded deer to try and track. The bullet did accomplish it's intended goal--to kill quickly and humanely--but this could easily have been a disaster. Had the shot been at 30 feet I could understand it blowing up shortly after impact, but not at 210+ yards! Also, had I known there was going to be so much controversy about this, I likely would have kept my opinion to myself!
Posts: 6711 | Location: Oklahoma, USA | Registered: 14 March 2001
I am giving Hornady Interlocks a try in my 7x57 this time around. Honestly, I likely could hunt deer with Sierras the rest of my life and not see another blowup like the one I had last season....but I just don't want to take the chance. I lost a muley buck many years ago--the only deer I've shot and lost in 40 seasons of hunting--and it still haunts me. I like Northforks, Nosler Partitions, and A-Frames but don't think they are needed for animals as small as deer. As you stated, ANY brand of bullet can have a failure or two...I'm just trying like heck to avoid failures if I possibly can!
Well, I just looked a bit closer at your last post and realize I answered a question you directed to Old Fart--oops!
Posts: 6711 | Location: Oklahoma, USA | Registered: 14 March 2001
better look out with hornady as well. i am not throwing a flame at you, but i will contend that one "failure" out of many years of using a bullet is a poor excuse to switch.
i happen to like them very much, but have never used them on game. my GUESS is that the mild (yet deadly) bite of the 7x57 will not cause any problems, BUT!
a friend whom i trust has had very poor performance with them on game, and according to him, the interlock system is a joke. i forget the nature of the problem, but i remember very specifically that he said words to the effect that it doesn't take much to compromise the interlock ring, and when it does go, it goes with a bang.
Well, if the Hornady's fail @ 2380 fps at any range, then I'll chunk the rest of them in the trash! Nah, I'll just shoot coyotes and prairie dogs and rabbits with them.
Posts: 6711 | Location: Oklahoma, USA | Registered: 14 March 2001
have you ever read o'connor? he keeps talking about the "now obselete (this was 1966) western open-point bullet." for the 7x57, he rcommended 139 grains for deer, and said that no bullet could work better. good penetration, good expansion.
i ahve no idea what the modern equivalent to the "western open-point bullet" is, but it might be worth a look. personally, if it was good enough for o'connor, then it would be good enough for me.
Mr. O'Connor is the gentleman who got me going on the 270...I feel almost disloyal hunting deer with anything else! I still have a couple of his books on the shelf. Guess I need to pull them back down and reread them...it's been alotta years. I grew up reading Jack's stuff in Outdoor Life and IMO nobody has or will ever be able to replace him. As opinionated as he was, can you imagine some of the discussions we could have here if he were still with us?!
Posts: 6711 | Location: Oklahoma, USA | Registered: 14 March 2001
i am just finishing THE ART OF HUNTING BIG GAME IN NORTH AMERICA. as i read it, i keep noticing how everything in that book is exactly how my dad taught me to hunt. if he were alive today, i do believe that he would dismiss it all as pure hype. keep in mind that his first sheep gun, if i remember correctly was a .25/35.
Yeah, you're probably right--he wouldn'ta put up with a lot of the BS that goes on here. But I bet he would've left with a very good bluster! I miss him.
Sorry for hijacking your thread, Mart!
Posts: 6711 | Location: Oklahoma, USA | Registered: 14 March 2001
AC, I believe that you will likely be satisfied with the I-Locks in your 7x57. After using several different bullets in my 7-08 I've settled on the 139 grain I-Locks because they have given complete penetration on some pretty tough angles and seem to be the most consistent of the cup and core bullets, FWIW!
Posts: 231 | Location: West Virginia | Registered: 22 December 2003
I am still trying to find the perfect bullet (It may never exist, but I still enjoy trying to find it ). Regardless, there are some dandies out there. The Failsafes and the triple shocks are sure winners, assuming they shoot decently. Depending on your definition of failures, you won't see many, if any, reports on these bullets failing. They may lose their petals at extream velocities and resistance, but they won't blow up, and they will penetrate. Regardless, excellent bullets are out there, so that should eliminate most excuses. If you stay on this list long, its easy to identify the bad ones.
Quote: a friend whom i trust has had very poor performance with them on game, and according to him, the interlock system is a joke. i forget the nature of the problem, but i remember very specifically that he said words to the effect that it doesn't take much to compromise the interlock ring, and when it does go, it goes with a bang.
I really like these discussions. It will never cease to amaze me the differences of opinion and experience. I spoke with the Montana guide that is in the RealTree hunting videos...Eric Albus. When we were discussing our 300 RUM's, I asked what bullet he's used there in Montana for elk and mulie. His response: "I use the good ol Hornady 165 INterlokt. It's all you need. And it won't peel back beyond that ring. I've not lost one animal.
Since our conversation a year or so ago, he had his gun rebarreled with a custom barrel. He was testing the 180 Scirocco and was guiding some clients that were basically using the same setup. He said that the 180 Scirocco knocked every mulie down and elk down where it stood. He liked the big mushroom and energy transfer.
He stated that they were also shooting them into steel plates and it was impressive. I'll have to email him and check out any updates.
This is a Rhino bullet shot from a .308Win. It hit a bull moose in his shoulder, went through both shoulders and stoped in the skin on the way out. It was a clean shot, so no trees between shooter and the moose. Distance was about 200 meters and this is a 165 grains bullet, reload with 43 grains N140.
Posts: 67 | Location: Norway | Registered: 13 July 2003
