Least: 308Win, 180 silvertip, broke both shoulders and still was able to use them.

Most: 300WSM, 165 NBT, deer spooked as I pulled the trigger, lung shot became shoulder shot and bloodshot meat went to the (but not into) neck.

Interesting to note in this thread the comfirmation of long standing wisdom.....higher velocity and quicker opening bullets=greater diameter destruction.

i have used .308, .30/06, .30/30 and 7x57. when hit in the ribcage, all perform well with no loss of meat. < !--color--> coincidence?

I've actually shot more caribou than deer but I must say the 300 Weatherby with the 180gr. Hornady bullet did the most damage I've ever seen on a big game animal. A friend made the shot on a cow caribou at about 75yd. We literally had to throw away the front quarters since both were just jelly.

I hunted a little bit with a 454 Casull and hardcast bullets and as others have stated the meat damage was of no consequence. A 325gr. bullet just made a neat hole in and out.

Here's an article from a recent HANDLOADER Magazine that has some bearing on this subject. Just food for thought.

-Bob F.


When Less Is More
Hunting Handloads - John Barsness
HANDLOADER Magazine
June-July 2004 Volume 39, Number 3 Number 229

Outside of North America, many experienced hunters firmly believe in what Americans consider moderate muzzle velocity, from about 2,400 to 2,800 fps. Why? Well, for one thing such velocities don�t jelly, shred and crater huge amounts of edible venison � which in many other countries is sold on the marketplace.< !--color--> Too, such velocities allow the use of �standard� bullets. Believe it or not, many �premium� hunting bullets become pretty pricey for general hunting by the time you ship them to the Czech Republic or South Africa.

Many such hunters have also found that moderate velocities often kill quicker, even with premium bullets. How can this be so? We�ve been told for decades that extra speed always results in extra �killing power,� whether through more foot-pounds of kinetic energy or high velocity�s Holy Grail, hydrostatic shock.

Except for �solids,� game bullets are designed to expand when they hit a game animal. Where they expand can affect how well they kill. We�ve all heard about � or even seen � tender bullets coming apart before penetrating deeply enough, but even some expensive �premium� bullets work more effectively at lower velocities.

When pushed to high velocities, any bullet can expand so rapidly that the vast majority of tissue damage occurs near the entrance hole. By the time the bullet gets inside, expansion�s over. Instead of blowing the heart or lungs apart, the bullet punches a relatively small hole.

Reduce velocity a few hundred fps, however, and the bullet only starts to expand on the skin, muscle and bones on the outside of a game animal. Much of the bullet�s expansion takes place inside, doing much more damage to heart and lungs � and the animal quickly keels over.

This phenomenon is most noticeable on game larger than deer, one reason Americans (who mostly hunt deer) are unfamiliar with the concept, particularly down South where deer run smaller. Here about any bullet will do the job, because even if it expands extremely quickly, the deer�s chest cavity is only a few inches wide. But move up to larger game, even big northern deer, and moderate-velocity bullets often kill just as quickly, or even quicker. The slower bullet does more of its �work� deep inside the animal.

If you�re worried about reducing �energy� by slowing a bullet down, use a heavier bullet. While I was growing up, wise old gun writers said to use 150-grain bullets for deer in the .30-06, because 150s were built to expand more rapidly than 180s and hence killed better. I haven�t found this to be true with today�s bullets, in fact have dropped more 100- to 200-pound animals in their tracks with 180-grain bullets from the .30-06. Most of today�s hunting bullets are designed to expand easily, no matter what their weight.

American hunters tend to fret that reducing velocity also reduces range. Along with extreme velocity, this is also an odd concept to most European and African hunters, who consider 300 yards a very long shot. Americans also doubt that slower bullets will expand way out there, but 2,400 fps is plenty for shooting out to 200 yards, and 2,700 to 2,800 for shooting game at any range out to 400 yards � as long as you know your rifle�s trajectory. If you don�t, you have no business shooting that far!

The next time you peruse a ballistics table, note the numbers of some old rounds that have survived around a century, such as the 6.5x55 Swede (110 years), 7x57mm Mauser (112), .30-06 (98) and .375 H&H (92). These have all gained a reputation for killing better than their paper ballistics � and most factory loads send bullets out the muzzle at between 2,400 and 2,800 fps, speeds not only easier on our shoulders but also very often harder on game.

Hey Bob F., What gives you the least and the most Blood Shot Meat?

(Quite a nice Moose John shot!)

Degree of bullet expansion (or explosion with Ballistic Tips) is the greatest factor. If one uses something like a Barnes X, or any of the mushrooming but stick together bullets, you get little of the damage referred to. I've used them very successfully in calibers from .243 to .338. I noted the .270 accused several times, but with a Barnes X, little blood shot meat. Actually, I've probably seen the least bloodshot damage from my .338 (with Barnes X bullets), even on some deer and a pronghorn I shot with it--the pronghorn straight through the shoulders (it was luck as much as anything, trotting briskly at 200 yards). So, I think it's more the bullet being used than anything else.

The least blood shot meat-- caused by a 10ga. Slug. Just a big, big hole. The slug is 785 grains at about 1300FPS.
The most blood shot meat--kind of a tie.
a 30-06 shooting 180 grain Sierras at 35 yards- shot deer through the front shoulders-- exit wound on off shoulder is between softball and football size. But they definately dtop on the spot. I have shot 4 deer with this load with the same results.
The other nasty mess was a 75 yard shot on a small Pa. buck with a .338 Win Mag using a 250 grain Sierra shot in the chest-- exit the ham. I literaly opened him up and kind of poured out most of the insides.

The worst scenario ive seen was a rabbit @ about 15 feet with a 12 gage shotgun.

Ive never found a good recepie for wild ribs, so I just stick'um there and dont concern myself with bloodshot meat. Love them shoulder roasts though.

Yeah, I learned that a jack rabbit and a prairie dog hit with a 223 and a hollowpoint, are about the same. Not much left, even to make JackRabbitMCNuggets out of.

Cheers and Good shooting
seafire

Now you fellows are reminding me of a grouse I shot while returning to camp. After carefully selecting a 110 grain target bullet (7MM RM), from a range of about 15 yards, I committed on the trigger just as the grouse committed to a "grouse explosion". At that range, I would hold about 1 1/2 inches over, and just clip the head, usually. This one hit the grouse center mass of the body (I think). It doesn't really count as "blood shot meat", the only thing visible was a feather explosion, and the only thing I found was the feathers! Can O' Chili that night.

In addition to bullet construction and velocity, one thing that I think has quite a lot to do with the amount of bloodshot meat, is whether the animal runs after the hit or not. I've seen quite a many moose killed and shot some myself and the most bloodshot animals that I've seen, have been shot with a .308 through shoulders and have run 300+ meters before dying. When animal gets a shot through shoulders and bones are broken, the broken bone pieces and splinters make really bad mess of the front quarters if animal manages to run for a few hundred meters.

If, on the other hand, the animal gets a similar shot which reaches the spine and drops him on the the spot, the amount of jellied, bloodshot meat will be minimal, and only in such cases you can clearly evaluate the effects of bullet construction and velocity, since all bloodshot meat is result from them.

The cleanest moose kills that I've seen, have been made with .45-70, 400 gr Flatnose or Hardcast FNs of same weight at 1800 fps. Drops them in their tracks very often and makes just a good sized hole with no bloodshot meat at all.

Most bloodshot:

I saw blue sky through a chuckar once at ten yards on a surprise flush straight away. instinct faster than judgement put a 16 gauge full choke load through the middle, blue sky donut. only wing tips, head and feet left intact.

my buddy said "you may want to wait a bit longer on the next one".

The least bloodshot meat: A clean miss at a running dear. no blood at all.

Seriously: I believe it also depends on whether the muscle mass is in contraction or relaxation at the time of the hit. if bunched up tight: you got it. if flaccid: less bloodshot. just theory, or course. But shock waves are proportional to tension.

Jameister

I started out using 150 grain corelokt and interlocks in my 308, but noticed that the bullets usually didn't exit and often wasted a lot of meat. I switched to 180s in both 308 and 30-06 and now get a nice punch through and littel waste. Velocity is 2500-2650 fps with hornady round nose slugs.