This past season a buddy of mine and a buddy of his did some pheasant hunting. I have grown to know my buddy's friend and like him, but would not call us close friends yet. I know this other guy has hunted alot, but I have observed him to be unsafe in many ways (swept us often when we were close, leaned on his muzzle and stuck fingers in the muzzle when he had a shell chambered often, etc.). This guy is 20 years my senior (I am 39yrs old) and because of his age has never had to take hunter's safety and despite our "ducking", I am willing to bet he is unaware of his unsafe habits. I plan to confront the unsafe guy this year if I see any unsafe conduct (we will pheasant and possibly elk hunt). My dilemna is this. I have allways been priviliged to hunt around safe hunters. Since I am a gun/hunting advocate and a person that believes in respect I want to confront this guy in a way that will respect and encourage him. I have never had to confront my senior this way and would appreciate some helpful advice from those that have.

Deke.

If he wants to blow himself away, that's his business... assuming there's no young shooters around to learn his bad habits.
As far as sweeping you and such... I'd say to him point blank, in a very serious but calm tone.. "Please stop pointing your gun at me."

As each example of this behavior occurs say, "Please don't _______." (E.g. "Please don't point that muzzle at me, I don't want to miss any hunting." "Please don't put your fingers in the bore, I don't want to waste time taking you to the doctor.") A second example of a particular behavior elicits "Don't _______." A third example results leaving the area OR "Don't you f___ing do that again!"

When asked, I'd explain in just the way you've told us. If you feel uncomfortable with that, look at your own or your friends' wife (wives) and think just what it would be like to carry the news of somebody's death to them.

I simply do not accept that somebody's age, position, etc. give them carte blanche to risk my life or the lives of my friends or family.

I think most of psychology is bogus pseudoscience, but once in a while the psychologists come up with something that seems worthwhile (to me, anyway).

Once I took a class from a psychologist who taught about using something called an "I-Message" when confronted by circumstances like yours. It takes practice and presence of mind to skillfully use these I-Messages, and I can't claim to be a master of them, but I can give you an idea of what using them requires.

The basic idea is to avoid conflict by diplomatically getting to the heart of the matter.

The classic example that the instructor gave went something like this:

"You have a teenage daughter who went out with her friends one Saturday night. You told her to be home by 11:00 p.m. She comes in at 3:00 a.m. What do you say to her?"

Here's the I-Message at work. You, as the parent, say:

"When you come home late, I can't sleep, because I'm so worried that something may have happened to you."

Or some such similar phrase. The idea is to avoid confrontational phrasing ("you, you, you") which will escalate things.

According to him, the wrong way to confront your daughter is something like what I would be tempted to say. Phrases involving "you, you, you" are perceived by the listener as an attack. The listener feels like they have to defend.

In this instance, you might consider speaking to the unsafe gentleman as follows:

"When I hunt with you, I can't enjoy the hunt because I am worried that I might be accidentally shot at any moment."

Or some similar phrase.

You can find many examples of this I-Message stuff on the Internet. Among other links, see:

http://www.familyschool.com/teachtips/IMessages.html

http://www.colorado.edu/conflict/peace/treatment/istate.htm

http://www.kevinfitzmaurice.com/commu_i_statements.htm

Along with being a hunter, I am also a range officer. If I see anything of this sort, I tell them that no one else wants to see the muzzle of thier firearm. If I see a second offense, they are never invited back on a hunt. Others are asked to leave the range, and not to return with out a hunter safety course certificate.

And then you still have to keep an eye on some!

If I see a fellow hunter commit an unsafe act such as pointing his muzzle at someone or glassing with his riflescope I warn him immediately.If he does not respond immediately we will not hunt together again.

Most shooters are fairly good with gun safety but those who aren�t, 100% need a verbal arse kicking. It depends on the situation as to how this is done. If I am in charge then I will ask the person for a quiet word on the side. I try to do this so as not to embarrass them in front of other people. It may be a minor lapse and this will wait but if it is something potentially seriously dangerous then it has to be addressed on the spot. Remember if you are in charge of a shoot that you have organised then you are responsible. If I am not in charge have words with the person who is. Failing this find a large suitable tree and put it between you and the idiot!

If you really want to help this guy, get him a copy of the hunters safety couse book. In private, look him in the eye and tell him you don't feel safe hunting with him. Give him the book. Tell him when the next class will be offered. Then close with if your willing to change, we will hunt together in the future.

If he doesn't want to change then don't go in the field with him. It's not worth getting accidently shot.

Deke, one of my best friends in the world and I do not hunt together. There was one instance when we were near the car, just entering a field, when a pheasant surprised us. I was slightly ahead and my friend fired leaving me with ringing ears. He knew immediately he'd screwed up and I didn't have to say a thing. While we remain friends, there will never be a loaded firearm anyhwhere near us when we're together. I advise you to take no chances. The advice not to embarass the guy is probably correct. Speak calmly about the problem. Anything close to another violation of basic safety rules and it should be your choice to leave. On another occasion, I insisted a hunting buddy unload his rifle while hunting deer when I'd seen the muzzle twice. Never hunted with him again either and don't want to but still wish I'd have handled the situation with more calm. Ed

Life is too short to have to take a #@^&*)(^# to school that doesn't know or doesn't care about safe gun handling. And I am an old fart myself. I think I would seek the old man out before your next hunt in a one on one situation and tell him straight out that you don't enjoy hunting with him because of your fear for yourself, your mutual friend and for the old man himself. If he tries to pooh pooh your concerns, look him in the eye, shake his hand and say its been nice knowing you. And don't hunt with him again. If he was unaware of his actions and your concerns, you can try to work with him. But be sure to stay behind him at all times.

Hello Zippy;
Verry good pointers, I vote for you, Carl

Deke:

My first response is, "Are you nuts?"? You hung around with that kind of gun mishandling going on? Of course, if he shoots his finger off that is only going to interrupt the hunt and might give him a reminder of safe gun handling, but if he shoots your head off, you won't be needing any reminders that tacitly accepting such behavior is STUPID.

My second is, to meet him on a range or somewhere for a cup of coffee and express you concerns in a rational and considerate manner, but telling him in no uncertain terms that a continued unsafe gun handling will force you to leave, THEN AND THERE.

OR... if diplomatic means fail, the next time a pheasant surprises you, sweep your shotgun around and break his nose with it, followed by a surprised "Oh! sorry, I didn't see you there"

just joking,
Ruger#1

All very good advice. When this thread runs dry I am going to print it out then go over it with my "safe" buddy to come up w/a plan to approach him. Like I have said, the objective is to create a safe hunter if possible.

Deke.

I'd say something like " gee probably wouldn't be too much fun if that gun went off with your finger down the bore now would it?"

As for getting swept. I think that calls for yelling and screaming and cursing. "point that thing away from me you ^$$#*!{"

Personally, I'm in the "don't EVER point that ^$$&&^$##@ thing at me again" camp. There are times where being succinct, forceful and to the point is the best option. If the old boy has a problem with that, that's just the way it will be. JMO, Dutch.

To add to what dutch said, after you crawl his ass, say "that does it for me, let's go to the house." You may ruin one hunt but you may save a life and keep a otherwise enjoyable hunting companion.

Here's the story...
After the guns are safe, you can alway use the "clear your weapons, I've got a problem" approach.

Ask him if he's open to a little discussion, that neither of you will find comfortable, but it is important.

Ask the fella if he is aware that he's pointed his gun at you. Tell him that you like him, enjoy his company, and that you can't continue hunting with him if he points his gun at you again. Offer to share the "new basics" with him, as you know, he might not have been taught them. Tell him what he's doing.

If he's an ass, then it's time to go to the car. If he's okay with it, then walk beside him.

I've taught several men/women, my jr and sr, how to PROPERLY handle weapons and hunting.

Jeffe

I think Jeffeso had a good response, I seen some good ones above, but his was the last one so I remember what he said. Be tactful, be calm, and if your "suggestions" on gun safety doesn't work, you may just have to leave him out on hunting escapades.

I can't believe some of the responses I am hearing here. Education is all very nice, but your emphasis should be on self-preservation. You should NOT be planning how to address his next violation, because you shouldn't be there to observe it.

These are real guns, guys, not some piss-ant .38 or .45 that lots of people survive getting shot with. You need to stay in a different county from this clown, and I don't mean a neighboring one, either. If you're interested in helping him, e-mail him the link, or print it out and snail-mail it. Even if he gets convinced of the error of his ways, you need to stay away from him for a few years to give him a chance to develop good HABITS. Right now, he has potentially lethal HABITS.

I can't believe you actually want to be around this guy. You might want to look closely at why you do.

Having a shotgun pointed at you is not a small thing. I advise not letting it happen again.

Print this thread out and hand it to him. Tell him all these responses are from a gun/hunting forum. He'll save face as you didn't use the most direct suggestion and tell him to F off, but hopefully still get the idea that you won't put up with mishandling guns in your presence.

Deke -

I am GLAD to hear that you want to be around this guy while hunting - but only if you change his habits.

Oh sure, you could just decide not to hunt with him again, but this would just pass the risk on to someone else hunting with him. Believe me, if he ends up causing a "hunting accident" it will likely get great coverage in the press, where it will reflect poorly on ALL hunters.

I'm sure he's a smart guy - see if you can get him to grasp the three basic rules of firearms safety:

1. Keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction,
2. Keep your finger off the trigger until you have made a conscious decision to shoot,
3. Know your target and what's beyond.

Good luck!

Please don't hunt with this guy anymore. He'll never learn and the benifits of hunting with him DO NOT OUTWAY THE POTENTIAL CONSEQUENCES. Be safe in all your hunting / shooting ventures. Teach those who are still learning.
Jake

Guess I'm not so tactful.
I'd rip his rear end a good one right when it occurred, and if it occurred again, I'd rip him again and get away from him and his gun.

Most guys will straighten right up after a little peer pressure.

This is not like making a "little mistake" that can be easily repaired. An accident with a gun is pretty serious stuff and could likely result in a fatality.

Having several times witnessed the sorry remains of shotgun blasts to face, thorax, etc (intentional I would presume), I would opt to take Recono's advice and stay the hell away from this idiot. Let someone else rehabilitate him, and potentially get killed while trying.

Todd

From Oct through April I guide quail hunts almost daily with a few breaks for hogs and turkey. Believe me, you're not alone. The difference for you is this man is a friend or "equal", not a paying client. Use it to your advantage. Make the rules right up front. No flagging, crossing center line, firing across the bow, etc.... The first breach receives stern scolding (think about it, you feel dumber when your friends correct you than some stranger).
That said, don't risk injury. I hit the ground daily. I've had my bell rung, dog shot, and the other day a ported gun dusted my eyes so bad I couldn't see for a second or two. My hat was knocked back also. I get paid good money to guide but that human The great thing is, and you may see it also, is that his friends blasted him worse than I did. In other words, use the peer pressure thing to "teach" him.
Second offense. Load up and go to the barn. Bird shot at 3 feet is devastating and no friendship survives it either. And quite honestly, given a choice, there'd never be a chance for a second offense.
J

Continued thanks for the advice. Spoke to my wife and my buddy (the safe one) at length the other day. Like I said in my original post "I am a gun/hunting advocate and a person that believes in respect". In some fashion, all of us who are safe were taught. Some people were not and are most likely unsafe. Gonna approach him with rules of conduct, keep a close eye on him. Not going to drive him away, unless he refuses to obey.

Deke.

Didnt You all start out being unsafe god knows i did when i was sweeping my gun across things i shouldnt. Bought Blew my arms off when my barrel was clogged before my dad cleaned it out.

I'm in the camp of telling him every time it happens- if it doesn't change his way's then politely decline to ever hunt with him again!! Good guy or not I'm of the mind set that I like life/and hunting to much to loose both to an idiot!!!