Northern New Mexico Arsonist

26 October 2010, 02:25

A friend of mine has a family ranch in Northern New Mexico, around Tres Piedras. One of the sons runs the ranch and operates and guides hunters.

He caught two poachers on his ranch and confronted them. He happened to know who the men were. They were elk hunting on his private land with rifles between muzzle loader and bow season. He told them to leave.

The men refused and said they were going to continue to hunt. An altercation insued and the men were physically thrown off of the land.

They threatened to burn his family home with his wife and kids in it.

The son returned to the ranch a couple of days later to find one of his cabins burned to the ground.

Evidently the criminals live in Tres Piedras and have been accused/convicted in 4 other arsons and have served zero days in prison.

Sickening.

26 October 2010, 04:08

TCLouis

Some pretty lawless fellas in that area. Though circumstances point that way, there really is not any proof that they did anything.

I guess SSS is out as socially unacceptable even though likely appropriate.
Such things should reduce recidivism though.

I think the issue of lack of punishment is based on "Local Boys" and them "Outsiders".

The life can be (or at least it was 25 years ago) for the local Warden as there was a big difference in catching the guilty party and getting the judge to do anything significant in a lot of cases.

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27 October 2010, 08:36

Kyler Hamann

That's one of the most frustrating things about dealing with poachers, its just way too easy for them to come back and retaliate.

I hear people talk trash about being really tough on poachers, but the bad guys have the luxury of being able to play by different rules than the land owners. One of the neighboring ranchers to where we outfit takes a real hard line with poachers, but he's had a pile of cattle shot from the road over the years in retaliation. They seem to like to shoot the steers right in front of his house, it's a wonder he's never had one of his kids shot by accident at the same time. As far as I know none of these losers has ever been caught.

Even when the wardens catch these dirt bags for poaching the fines are too often lower than doing things the right way. I've seen fines levied that are even lower than my costs as an outfitter.

The game wardens have told me stories of prosecuting guys that have poached game on private property, at night, illegal weapon, etc. only to have the judge say, "What's the problem, he had a license didn't he?" We're in a pretty rural area, but the judges are pretty clueless about wildlife crimes.

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27 October 2010, 18:27

SDhunter

That sucks! Fortunately we have never had a huge problem with that up here. We are small enough area that the illicit types are pretty well known.

As a general rule, people are nuts. Dealing with these types is very aggravating and sometimes dangerous.

The poaching issue is just going to get worse as hunting opportunities become more limited and the pressure to shoot trophies increases.

Unfortunately the legal system has more serious issues to deal with and these outdoor crimes take a back seat. But arson is very serious and should get someone's attention.

28 October 2010, 04:38

vapodog

quote:
Originally posted by rcamuglia:
A friend of mine has a family ranch in Northern New Mexico, around Tres Piedras. One of the sons runs the ranch and operates and guides hunters.

He caught two poachers on his ranch and confronted them. He happened to know who the men were. They were elk hunting on his private land with rifles between muzzle loader and bow season. He told them to leave.

The men refused and said they were going to continue to hunt. An altercation insued and the men were physically thrown off of the land.

They threatened to burn his family home with his wife and kids in it. end the post right there.....

I'm not at all an anarchist.....but don't think we should allow others to be either.....it's why SSS was invented....

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28 October 2010, 06:07

Fish30114

quote:
Originally posted by vapodog:
quote:
Originally posted by rcamuglia:
A friend of mine has a family ranch in Northern New Mexico, around Tres Piedras. One of the sons runs the ranch and operates and guides hunters.

He caught two poachers on his ranch and confronted them. He happened to know who the men were. They were elk hunting on his private land with rifles between muzzle loader and bow season. He told them to leave.

The men refused and said they were going to continue to hunt. An altercation insued and the men were physically thrown off of the land.

They threatened to burn his family home with his wife and kids in it. end the post right there.....

I'm not at all an anarchist.....but don't think we should allow others to be either.....it's why SSS was invented....

28 October 2010, 07:28

rcamuglia

The story really is amazing. He's reported everything and it's being investigated. The guys actually were guiding other hunters, cut the fence and drove their trucks onto the ranch. The authorities say they can't find enough evidence to pin it on the crazys even though they found the gas can they used. No attempt to hide it.

They're trying to find out who the hunters were to talk to them, until then it's his word against theirs. He's actually run into them in town and their brother. I don't know how he can control himself. He's got more to lose I guess.

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28 October 2010, 21:52

drewhenrytnt

If this were in Texas, I think the use of deadly force under the Castle doctrine would have been valid. Trespassing, poaching, threats to family and home. Yeah, my sixshooter would be missing a couple rounds.

It is unfortunate that the courts are as misinformed as they are. It is also unfortunate that using lethal force is often the only way these issues get resolved permanantly.

Whatever happened to respecting another's property?!

We build fences as much to keep our livestock in as to keep varmints out.

Shoot not always followed by shovel and shut-up.

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28 October 2010, 23:24

Cross L

It is sad that one of the prettiest parts of the world is that way. Tres Piedra and Tierra Amarilla have been that way for decades-the local mexicans feel they were cheated out of the land and are fighting the gringos. There were times in the 70's that the state police were careful when they went up there. Long history of burning houses barns and haystacks. If you wanted to move there you better be ready for war. I had a friend-now deceased- who was mexican and thought the locals wouldnt bother him--they stole over 300 hd of yearling steers and laughed at him.
SSR

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29 October 2010, 22:16

390ish

I lived up in that area for a few years. Arson is one of equalizers used by folks who grew up there. People who come in and buck tradition often get dwellings burned. Only thing worse than throwing locals off for hunting is throwing them off for collecting firewood. Down in the Gila area for a while it was sport for folks to set Game and Fish vehicles on fire.

It is kind of a trade off -- pretty place where state authorities do not hassle you. Thing is, they tend not hassle anyone.

Game cams are not going to make any difference. It is new mexico, not texas. Northern new mexico is a very, very strange place.

30 October 2010, 00:37

Dago Red

If he'd had to "protect" himself it would be only his word that they fired first, he'd have been better off likely. I hate people like this, they break the law, get caught, then retaliate and get away with it. reminds me of the movie Roadhouse where the rich guy just terrorizes and destroys the whole town. drives the big foot truck through a dealership and nobody does anything to stop him.

what does SSS stand for?

30 October 2010, 00:55

vapodog

quote:
Originally posted by rcamuglia:
Where and with who Vapo?

I'm hunting the western Colorado border in a week and If I get one for the wall, I'll quit elk hunting and start looking for Caribou.

If I come home empty (the norm for me) I'll do more research this winter and if it fits together I'll put some nails in the hunt.....meaning...write a check! So I'll not know anything until mid winter.

31 October 2010, 02:46

wino

quote:
Originally posted by vapodog:
I'm considering hunting a place about 75 Miles north of Santa Fe next year for elk.

Does anyone suggest that there might be concern about ones safety assuming I have a valid license and permission from the land owner?

I lived in Questa and Red River for three years, working at the mine. The locals are getting a little more receptive of out of towners, just remember, they're not mexicans, they're spaniards. Watch the El Monte Carlo and Tiwa Lounge/Village Stop and Go if you get thirsty in Questa. In fact you'd be better off heading up the hill to Red River. If you get in a bind, PM me, I know a few of the locals.

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02 November 2010, 01:27

Cross L

quote:
Originally posted by vapodog:
I'm considering hunting a place about 75 Miles north of Santa Fe next year for elk.

Does anyone suggest that there might be concern about ones safety assuming I have a valid license and permission from the land owner?

Shouldnt be any problems Vapodog the locals dont mind much when you are just visiting and leaving your dollars. You will see some gorgeous country.

SSR

09 November 2010, 22:35

TEANCUM

This is a little off the point of arsonist but goes to burglary in the State of Utah. Interesting read about a 3:00AM attempt to break and enter by two teenagers.

The opinion there in Salt Lake City is that nothing will most likely happen to the homeowner:

http://www.deseretnews.com/art...lleged-burglary.html