Be patient. I don't have my manual with me.

However, I am shooting 250 gr. Nosler Partions in a .338 Win. Mag. I am using 64 gr. of IMR 4350, which the Nosler Manual says is the most accurate load with that powder and bullet. My gun happens to agree. I am getting very good (for me) groups, except the first one at 200 meters hits about three inches up and to the right. After that, it's about 1 1/2 inches between holes. So one question is how to bring shots one and two closer together, since the first one is what counts.

Second, the manual says if I go down to 225 grain Partitions I can use the same powder and get 2,882 fps. vs. 2,510 with the 250s. That's a gain of 372 fps, or 13 percent, which is not insignificant. That is also the listed "most accurate" load for that powder and bullet weight, and I'm assuming just for kicks that my gun may agree.

Oddly, if you drop the bullet weight again to 210 gr., still using the same powder and the "most accurate" load for that powder and bullet weight, the gain according to the manual is only about 15 fps. Or so I recall.

Anyway, it seems to me a no-brainer that I should back off the 250-grainers to 225. The added speed, assuming I can retain or exceed my current accuracy, outweighs the 25-grain loss, doesn't it?

I can't imagine any situation where the extra 25 grains would matter, and that includes a charging polar bear.

I would appreciate comments on both issues. I am concerned that the "first bullet" phenomenon is going to stay with me.

kk

Go and get your manual. The most accurate load, as Nosler tested it, was the minimum load with 4350 for the 250 gr bullets and the maximum load for the 225 gr bullet. Just ignore this information and go ahead with what shoots in your rifle.

As to the first shot impact which is also a fetish with me I agree it's a concern. Are you sure something was not changed before the first shot was fired such as removing the stock?

How much have you shot this rifle?

Hi, Savage:

I understand about the most accurate being the lowest with the 250 gr. and the highest with the 225. I am speculating that since my gun agrees with the first set of data, it MAY agree with the second. If that's true, it seems to me that going to a 225 gr. bullet is warranted.

I've had the gun a year and a half, and I suppose I've shot between 400 and 600 rounds.

The first shot is always off to the right and up slightly at 200 meters from a cold barrel, but to answer your question, no. No stock change. I always make sure the scope mount screws are tight before I start, but this is on-going. A .338 can shake things up fairly quickly.

kk

Is your first shot out of a clean barrel - most of ny rifles will place the first shot away from the main group - not far - but maybe over an inch sometimes. Also, I choose to use the 210 NP in my 338 - with 4350 its not hard to drive it at 2950 fps - which is about 100 fps faster than what I can get out of a 225 gr. If you read the write up about the 338 in the Nosler manual the guy shot an elk in the rear and the bullet sailed on through the chest - at 300yds - and after passing thru a 3" tree - what else can a bullet be expected to do? The 210 generates over 4000 ft-lbs of energy and if I remember close to 2000 ft-lbs at 500 yds - and it is flat. My own personnel experience with the 210 on elk from 30 to 400 yds is the bullet is outstanding - a perfect combination of velocity - heavy bullet and tremendous knockdown power suitable for anything on this continent and most of the others.

Staying with the cold barrel impact problem. The easiest thing to do after you check for loose screws is to play with the bedding. Since I don't know what make of rifle you have I can't comment on the guard screw tension.

Put a shim under the barrel near the forend tip and try that again. The thing is that "a bad barrel is forever" but lets not go there yet.

I don't think it's some smaller effect like the way the barrel was cleaned or oiled but think of everything. Nothing wrong with firing it cold the next time with a fouled bore.

I am sure you will figure a load out. I don't pay attention to those Nosler "most accurate load" notes.

My choice in a 338 bore is the 225 grainers first, followed by the 250. If I wanted to shoot lighter bullets, I would use them in a 30 caliber instead.

At any hunting distances the difference is neligible. Energy is calculations only. How that energy will perform on point of impact is not going to allow any significance that will cause you to down your game or not if the bullet placement is where it should go. This is true regardless of caliber. It boils down to shot placement.

Unless something is big enough to put you on the menu, the 338 bore and the bullet weights in 338 bore, will take anything in the lower 48 you need to down, regardless of impact velocity! ( Yeah some guys may argue Elk over this, but the argument is purely academic in my book) JMHO.

300fps is a significant gain in vel. but only usefull o/ bullet weight if you are shooting beyond 250yds. Also w/o a crono. you have no idea what kind of vel. you are actually getting. The manulas are only a guide.
I like the 210grNP in my .338-06 but I am trying the 225grNAB in my .338 mag @ 2800fps+ for a long range elk load. I personnaly reserve the 250gr bullets for the timber & then would want my shots under 300yds. The .34 bore is a makes for great all round rifle carts.

I try to get any cartridge to perform at the level it was originally designed to perform at or thereabouts. When it comes to the .338 Win. Mag., my aim is to get a 250 gr. bullet to 2700 fps. or a bit better; 225 gr. at 2800 fps. or better; and 210 gr. at 2900 fps. or better.

My best .338 Win. Mag. rifle (24" barrel) performs best with IMR 4350 or Reloader 19 with 250 gr. Nosler Partitions. The top load with IMR 4350 produces just over 2700 fps., and the RE 19 recipe provides about 30 fps. more velocity than that.

Accuracy is just about identical with both powders, but I really favor the IMR 4350 load. I do because it uses 4 grs. less powder for almost the same velocity, so recoil is a tiny bit less and powder compression is less as well.

As a rule, if you can achieve about the same velocity and accuracy with a load that requires less powder volumn (a slightly faster powder with the same bullet) you'll enjoy a bit less recoil and somewhat longer barrel life.

AD

I wondered about the first shot and how to sight in because like you said, it is the first shot that counts. Gates beat me to it about the clean barrel. You can allways hunt with a barrel that has been fouled by a couple of shots.

As far as sighting in. Try making groups on a seperate target when you first arrive at the range. One shot per trip out of your cold clean barrel. You can sight in if it's consistant. Pain in the ass this late in the summer though.

I wouldnt worry about groups when hunting if it is the first shot that counts.

KK,
You said at 200, the first one hits up and to the right about 3 inches. Is that from the center of the following holes?

My main concern is where my bullet will go the first shot. It will be out of a cold barrel. If your rifle tends to throw the first shot somewhere abnormal in a clean barrel then hunt with a fouled barrel. Fire a shot through it before you go hunting. Perferably not as you get out of your vehicle on opening morning.

If you are trying to fine tune a load, look for the best powder combination first and then play with bullet seating depths. Talk to bench rest shooters to find out how much gain can be made with bullet seating depths. Anyone who tells you that doesn't do anything has never tried it.

I can not explain how the first shot in a group is off consistently. Bedding and torque on a rifle do not "fix" themselves between shots. If it is in relation to a barrel heating up then relieving the barrel channel may help but a bit more information would too.

Bingo. I went to the range yesterday after doing two things: First, I found (despite my claim to the contrary) that the rear screw on the triggerguard had worked itself loose; and Second, I seated my bullets down another 30/1000s.

The first target was at 200 meters, and the first shot hit 1/4 inch low and left of the bull. The next two formed a group of a measured 1.60 inches with the first. This was with 250-grain Nosler Partitions.

Next I moved to 100 yards with 225 gr. NPs. The nght before I had trouble holding three-inch groups, and was not happy. The first shot was dead in the bull. The second shot I flinched and it printed about four inches left and the third shot punched out half the hole of the first shot.

I had only built three cartridges with the new seating depth and the 71.5 gr. charge, so I was done. However, it's clear to me that bullet seating had everything to do with tightening the groups.

Since this gun is for hunting, I have my load, now. I can't see anything I could reasonable expect to improve from the load. The shooter, however, needs lots of adjustment.

Thanks for the input.

kk