The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting Do you find this bothersome?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| One of Us |
IN 2018, while at DSC, I bought a high dollar deer hunt in Kansas at one of the auctions. I can basically go the entire rifle season. I saw the pictures. They take some pretty good bucks. I drew my tag. I sent the info to the outfitter. No problem. An envelope arrived today. They want me to send them $1,000 NOW as a penalty fee in case I shoot a buck in DECEMBER that I am not supposed to shoot. If I violate the rules, I have no problem paying a penalty fee. It bothers me a lot for them to be asking me to pay this fee 4 months before I go on the hunt. Am I being unreasonable? | ||
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It does not sound unreasonable to me. They should have had a statement about the penalty before you bought the hunt. | |||
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Are the bucks numbered and tagged so you know what ones your suppose to shoot and ones your not suppose to shoot. | |||
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Sounds to me like----A COP SHOULD LOCK YOU UP JUST IN CASE YOU DO SOMETHING WRONG ! Hip | |||
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Sounds like a scam to me. Why should you pay a penalty upfront, just in case you do something wrong. Why and how could you shoot a forbidden buck? BH63 Hunting buff is better than sex! | |||
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No . Totally free range. Penalty based upon score. | |||
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If it scores less than 150. | |||
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I think that is crappy. If this is free range how can they assure you that there are multiple bucks that will score above 150 and you will have the opportunity(ies) to shoot one? You drew a tag, fill it. I would not pay it, personally. ~Ann   | |||
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It’s seems that there are so many issues from these so called ‘donated’ ‘auction’ hunts. The outfitter is gung-ho to donate, for the advertising. Then, when the hunt arrives, there are ‘conditions’. I think they are jerks for asking and I would not pay. I’d wager there will be more undisclosed issues with the hunt. I hope I’m wrong. Wishing you a good outcome! | |||
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I find this to be bullsh*t. You got to be kidding me, I want a $1,000 just in case you make a mistake. Is this fully guided hunt? If so I would tell this operator, "I am going to be with your guide. I won't shoot anything he doesn't tell me is ok" Sounds like an outfitter with cash flow problems. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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The penalty structure needs to be disclosed in the auction. Why every time I look at a us hunt I end up going back to Africa. Quality operators in Africa are way more professional and business minded than us operators. Mike | |||
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I don't think you are being unreasonable at all. ___________________________________________________________________________________ Give me the simple life; an AK-47, a good guard dog and a nymphomaniac who owns a liquor store. | |||
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This is the craziest thing I've ever heard. He wants $1,000 now, before the 'possible' transgression? Tell him you want your money back before the hunt! Yes, that means he got free advertising. Best to cut your losses now, and tell us the name of this outfitter to counteract his free advertising. | |||
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this! | |||
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Larry, that's complete BS. Reminiscent of the movie Minority Report. Unfortunately, I think I'd now be concerned about the outfitter | |||
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Yup. I spent $12,000 for what is supposedly a fantastic whitetail hunt. Now, I am wondering. | |||
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12000.00 and they have restriction on what size you can shoot. | |||
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I have heard of the penalty before but never asking for the fee upfront. I guess some guys shot 130 class bucks and said they were not going to pay the fee. I know some hunt clubs/leases that will charge you a fee if you shoot a deer smaller than (insert here size here). I refuse to join them as it takes the fun out of hunting where I am trying to judge inches instead of focusing on the hunt. I dont think you should have to pay upfront, and it should have been disclosed. They should be willing to take 1000 off your hunt if you dont get a shot at a deer over 150. Expectations go both ways. | |||
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Sorry that's happening to you Larry. Anticipation of the hunt is often 1/2 the fun. Maybe you can suggest an agreement with them that you'll pay the undisclosed policy of $1,000 now for the unlikely event you shoot a sub 150 buck in December if they will pay you now your undisclosed policy of requiring a $6,000 refund in the event there is no opportunity on a 150+ buck for the duration of your stay!! That would serve one to take the situation one of two directions. It would either escalate the tension or they would realize the absurdity of their request. If it's the latter, they'll probably be ok. If it's the former, I'd be concerned about the hunt. | |||
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I believe that I would get in touch with someone at DSC and have them get involved. If it wasn't disclosed at the auction, it should not be a requirement. Guns and hunting | |||
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First, let me be clear. DSC got the money. The outfitter got nothing at least as far as I know. Coincidentally, I paid the exact same amount at auction as the outfitter charges. I don't think that I can reasonably interject something into the equation that wasn't there to begin with. For example, a refund. My guess is that they have had some violations of the rules before and had problems collecting. I get that. That is one of the risks of business. Asking someone to pay in case they break the rules seems way off to me. I was once on a lease that had a similar rule. I got tagged a couple of times. Once, I watched a buck for a while. I kept adding and re-adding everything in my head. I whacked him. I was 1/8th of an inch short. I was fined $500. Maybe that is why I am sensitive to this. | |||
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I have a feeling you will pay a penalty fee no matter what you shoot. | |||
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That thought has crossed my mind. | |||
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I am looking for the paper work now. I have a call into the DSC offices. We will see what happens. | |||
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Sounds to me like the outfitter is hoping you won't pay upfront and then he'll use that as an excuse to cancel your hunt. He'll be saving money by doing so and would probably sell the hunt to another hunter. Tom Z NRA Life Member | |||
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I would tell them that I would bring the $1000 with me, in cash, should I shoot a buck smaller than the 150 score. If that was not suitable with them they could take a hike, and DSC could refund my original payment! ……………………………………………….  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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I wouldn't pay the fee. However, when I arrived at camp, I would have an envelope with $1k in it with it marked as "penalty fee". I'd show this to the outfitter which should assure him that you're will to play his silly game. If you will be hunting with one of his "guides" and said guide tells you to shoot, then the burden should fall on his "guide". You were doing as instructed. In addition, I have one marked "tip money". I'd state none of this tip money will go in his pocket unless you get the opportunity at a 150" buck, or larger. And, I wouldn't disclose the amount of money in the tip envelope, which will then allow you to give at your discretion should you get an opportunity. Personally, I think it's BS and it would probably cause me to stew over the hunt versus be excited and anticipate the hunt. Graybird "Make no mistake, it's not revenge he's after ... it's the reckoning." | |||
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I've been to many outfitted Whitetail hunts where there was a penalty for shooting a buck under a certain size, say 130. Then between 8 hunters in several camps for 5 days of hunting, and NOBODY sees a over 100. That's 40 man-days of hunting. I think I've been on a total of one Whitetail hunt that I'd consider returning to. | |||
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Should be hunting with Us we don't shot a lot of bucks we do shoot a few and some does. But we do have a great and fun time. | |||
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Where should I send my penalty fee? :-) | |||
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Larry, I'm sure you've transgressed against me so please send me $1000. Send more if you'd like! Okay, back to reality. That's bullshit! I see it as a way for you to pay NOW and feel free to shoot a smaller buck when they cannot produce one over 150". Just my thoughts. Zeke | |||
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Different hunts have all kinds of additional costs but the client should be made aware of them all upfront. In this case I can easily see a hunter shooting a 137 inch buck and when approached about the 150 rule he simply states he doesn't have $1,000 and will send a check post hunt which of course he never does therefore the upfront fee. For me I can see the logic in the fee but not any reason for not disclosing it until now. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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I had a similar experience. It seems many of these “size rules” whitetail hunts have questionable policies. My wife wanted to buy me a whitetail hunt at DSC a few years ago. All of the “experienced guides and PH’s” were quick to point out that we were responsible for any size guesstimate issues. We ended up going back to Africa. 12k for a free range whitetail hunt; you should be able to shoot whatever makes you happy. Safe hunting | |||
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Most likely just have buy pizza. | |||
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I dug up the paperwork. If indeed references the $1,000. However, it says nothing about paying it before the transgression should there be one. | |||
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I have communicated with the outfitter. I am going to hand them $1,000 cash in an envelope the day I arrive. They will return it on the last day if I have not made a mistake. I am happy with this arrangement. | |||
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12-G to shoot a deer and they are worried about it being 150 or under? I'd be pissed if it was under 180"s at that price. | |||
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Is there some other component that makes this hunt for a ~150 class deer worth $12k? ____________________________ If you died tomorrow, what would you have done today ... 2018 Zimbabwe - Tuskless w/ Nengasha Safaris 2011 Mozambique - Buffalo w/ Mashambanzou Safaris | |||
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Well, it was an auction. I was basically donating to DSC which is a great cause. One could stay for the entire gun season which is about a month. Their expectations are to take a buck considerably larger than 150. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting Do you find this bothersome?
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