My 13 year old nephew just passed the hunter safety course I took him to last spring.Was to
be his first year hunting.
So...I brought him a custom mauser 270.Did not give it to him yet.
His mom calls me up today to tell that me that he and some freinds (don't know all the details) were
shooting each other with their bb guns.My youngest
nephew (my 13 year olds brother) lost part of a tooth.
He can kiss that 270 good-bye.
If he was my kid he'd have some serious character
bumbs on his head.
SO DISSAPOINTED!
What would you do?

Jeff,I understand your feelings,but step back a minute and think it through,your nephew may have learned a lesson the hard way,try to come up with a way to explain the bullet vs the bb.Maybe take him hunting for squirrles with the bb gun and show him what it can do? Just a thought on my part

Agree with the character bumps comment. What CAN you do? Obviously, he's not getting the .270 any time soon. You might want to coordinate with his parents for a time for you to talk with him about the relationships between hunting and hunter safety course and shooting each other with BB's. Eventually you can establish some kind of schedule, if and when you perceive an actual change in the level of trust you feel you ought to have in him. Did he already know that he was scheduled to get a .270? If not, I might not mention it just yet. If so, he should be able to figure out what's changed. Maybe 13 was a little young, in his case.

I can feel your disappointment from here. But maybe this is just the opportunity to learn that he needed.

Good luck. Our hearts are with you.

Recono
Yes he knew,he came with me to pick it up.
I have 3 nice bucks in my hay lot...best @
140 class.Been watching all summer.Built a
beautiful elevated box blind for two.Oh well
he will not be killing any of these bucks
either.
But as you say there has to be a redemption
type schedule.Don't know what that is yet.
A sad day.
Jeff

JeffP,

I think the fact that he knew he was to get that .270 and maybe a nice whitetail is a good thing. Hell, I might even have him sit in the blind while I took the biggest deer in that field just to give him an idea of the cost of his actions. Too bad, but hopefully he learns from the experience.

JohnTheGreek

'Tis very unfortunate that the horse play was so "dumb," but it's actually a very good thing you found out about it.

Now, with great patience and a lot of discussion and coaching you can help this young man grow up to be the responsible sportsman you hoped he was to begin with.

Sad to start further back than you had hoped ... but much better to do it right than for him to have had some very unfortunate accident in the future.

I am no expert so you can take the following free advice for what it costs you.

Use this as a teachable moment. Make sure you are clearly seperating a judgement of the behavior from your love for him. If you are too blunt or brutal in what you say, he may not be able to hear the message behind it. That said, voice your criticism of the behavior in no uncertain terms, but make sure that he can see a way to win back your confidence.

As to a punishment, and redemption schedule, you might try to let him suggest one; you can always override it. You might say something to the effect of "Before I come up with a consequence for you, I'd like to hear what you think is an appropriate consequence?" Based on my own kids, they as often as not, come up with a more severe penalty than me.

Also, make sure the punishment is tied to the act; obviously not receiving the .270 may be a part of it. Use the elevated blind and take him to observe the deer that he could have shot, but use it also as an opportunity to teach him about deer in general. Try something along the following lines: "Well, to bad you won't have the opportunity at him this year, he sure is a dandy, but at least if you study him some now, it might help us to find you one almost as good when you feel you are mature enough to hunt."

You might also tell him that you will need to take him to the range more before he can hunt, as he will require a lot more closely supervised range practice with you, until you are confident that he is safe. That way, you can subtly reinforce safe habits, see whether there is long term progress, and give him hope for redemption through a demonstratable change in attitude.

Heck, I'm no child psychologist, but assuming he is an average, normal (I know, 13-year olds with galloping hormones are never "normal"), and is usually a well behaved kid, it can't hurt.

[ 10-22-2002, 03:56: Message edited by: loud-n-boomer ]

JeffP....let me tell you a story of what happened to me when I was 14.....I had been hunting for 2 years and had taken rabbits, pheasants, squirrels and even a few ruffled grouse (Pennsylvaia) but had never hunted behind a pointing dog. One of Dad's friends, who had two quality Brittany Spaniels, invited us along to hunt pheasant. Up until this point I had only hunted with my Dad and Uncle so Dad made sure I had a "refresher" course in safe gun handling, watching out for the dogs and keeping quiet and not bothering the dogs but especially to watch where my muzzle was pointing. At 14 I was already a pretty good shot and had read "all about" hunting with dogs so in my mind I was ready to go.

About 15 minutes into the hunt we had a point and as I was the yougest the dog's owner told me to go in and flush the bird and take the shot. As I walked in and got ready to flush the bird I let my muzzle swing past the other dog who was honoring the point from a near-by hill-side. The reaction from my Dad was immediate as he said "Stop!" He walked up and had me empty my gun and give him all of my ammunition and then he walked in, flushed the bird and shot it.

I carried that damned empty shotgun the whole day while the grown-ups had a great time shooting ring-necks over those great dogs. That was the last time my muzzle ever covered anything I didn't plan to shoot and let me tell you carrying an empty shotgun under the withering and disappointed eye of your Dad for a full day makes a lasting impression. That was 46 years ago but it seems like yesterday.

My advice....let your nephew try out the rifle on the range and if the game laws in your state allow it I would take him with me to watch as you shot one of your hay field deer.....let him carry the empty rifle and watch you enjoy yourself. Be a great opportunity to teach him about field-dressing etc.

I can't cast any stones here because I'm a sinner, and a seasoned veteran of "one-pump" pellet gun fights. What were you supposed to do before this blessed invention of paintball? We had enough sense to wear layers upon layers of heavy clothing, full face motorcycle helmets, and we never shot for the head. We also had enough sense not to get caught, because our fathers would have beat the shit out of us. Maybe it's not such a bad thing that this kid is not that good at being devious?

I'm not saying that shooting each other with pellets is the brightest thing in the world to do, but it's not as if we were not well aware of what air rifles were capable of and it's not as if we haven't all done some stupid things in our youth that could have injured somebody.

Remember the "stupid things you've done/explosives that you've made" thread that ran about a year ago? How many of you participated, and how many of you could have blown yourself up? There are quite a few former knuckleheads posting on this forum, and in some cases (Axel, Ares, BBBruce, etc.) they're still knuckleheads.

Hopefully this kid will now be taking a forced step to a greater maturity level.

I have two scars from pellet guns, one between my lip and nose, and one between my eye lid and eye brow. The first one i got screwing around with friends,like your newphew was, and when i got to the hospital, they had to cut the pellet out from inside my mouth. The second was from some idiot shooting at the ground in front of me, and the ricocett hitting me just above the eye. Both of these happened when i was about 13 also, and i learned two valuable lessons from them.

1. Firearms are not toys, and they must be treated with respect. Everyone is told this over and over, but as a kid, i had to learn the hard way.

2. Don't assume a some what inteligent person has any business handling a firearm. When i was laying on the ground with blood running between my fingers thinking it was the fluid from my eye, I was never sooo scared in my life. I know if he would of had a .22, he would of shot me with that, not even thinking about the consiquences.

I now take the handling of any firarm extremely serious, and usually way more serious than most people, i am also very selective who i will go hunting with, because unless I KNOW, not think, somebody won't shoot at sounds, i won't go with them.

For every action, there has to be a re-action, and this case is no exception. My-self, i would skip hunting season, and then maybe in the spring, spend some time at the range working on handling skills. He might of already learned a valuable lesson, and nobody lost there life teaching it to him.

Count me amongst the guilty of having bb gun fights (our rules don't shoot for the head or the head), and had I been caught my ass would have been busted good and proper, by my folks. If part of the punishment that they come up with involves him not getting the gun then I would go with that. This honestly sounds like a boys will be boys kinda stunt, does it make it any less serious? NO emphatically NO but I really don't think that it is grounds for excomunication!!!! Just my .02 Also I think that one of the reasons that Kids are involved in gun violence is because they don't hunt and see the end result of the action of shooting something. How many remember their first squirrell (insert animal here) and thinking that this animal is done and it is all because I pulled the trigger. It is very humbling and teaches a valueable lesson. And I would say that he has learnd a pretty good lesson in this stunt, but chances are he is still a good kid, the same good kid that you were gonna give the 270 to a week ago. gabe

I've got a kid that age and sometimes I wonder if she will live to vote. It's hard to let her push me away as she learns to be independent and then let her come back when she needs a kind word when I really want to kick her ass.

First, get details. This event may be better (or worse) than you thought. Second, coordinate with his folks on discipline and punishment.

Third, don't rub his nose in his mistake. He's doing plenty of that himself. If he looks up to you, but you tell him what a screw-up he is every time you see him, he'll quit coming around. This happened to me when I was a kid. I quit my constructive activities because the people who ran them made a point of making me feel like an idiot all the time (Catholic school). Then I fell in with a bad crowd and it took years to get back on track.

Finally, try to separate your disgust with his actions from your opinion of him as a young man. I promise you he knows he blew it, but if you tell him he'll never get the 270 or hunt with you, he loses all incentive to improve. Stay engaged with him but don't let him hunt this year. If you give him a reason to jump ship, there are plenty of bad people and things that would love to have his attention. Hope this helps, Okie John.

If you don't take him under your wing who will? Ok the boy did somthing really dumb, Ok, I broke my best friends tooth with a hockey stick, he was told not to fool with some bottles that his grand pop hand, he did, and the fermented suff poped and the cap hit his eye and detached his retnina. We did foolish things, but never any thing we did caused the men that took us under their wing to just drop use like a hot rock.

Have him shoot a watermelon with a 12 ga and some #6 bird shot. Then give him the 270 and go hunting. You don't want to lose him, there are other things that he can get into, if you decide that he is not worth anything to you.

Good advice from Okie John. I have two kids, one now 22 and the other 18. Sometimes you would rather box their ears, but you have to give them enough freedom to learn what is and isn't wrong. I can't speak for anyone else, but this was one of those lessons that I had to learn firsthand; once I learned it I realized what a fool I was sometimes (and way worse then my kids), but no one likes being ground down about it. Get the details, talk to the parents (and maybe the other kids, peer pressure is a bitch)let him know he screwed up, then let hin try to fix it. See how he does. He may surprise you. He probably still has the makings of an outdoorsman in there. - Dan

I wish I could give credit where it's due, but I can't. The thought is that you lead from the front, by example, not from the rear with a whip. The young man will learn more from your example than from any amount of "correction". Not saying that correction is not needed, just that a good example gives direction for growth. I think of all the dumb things that I did as a youngster (from zip guns to you don't want to know), and I know I responded more to good leadership than lots of correction. He's old enough to know what the situation is, don't keep him in the dark, or the doghouse.