In watching the way some conversations about hunting, and not just on this site, break down into pissing matches, as of late I have began wondering if petty jealousy or one of its synonyms is the real culprit and not just differences of opinion.

Jealousy or one of its synonyms: covetousness, enviousness/envy, invidiousness or resentment, can be pretty insidious. Little things that have a cumulative effect that may or does cause an individual to re-act/over re-act about something that really has nothing to do with them.

A person being able for whatever reason to buy new rifles/scopes other hunting related equipment on a weekly or monthly basis versus a person that feels lucky if they can afford a decent used gun or even a new gun once every 3 to 5 years. Same thing with folks that for whatever reason seem to be or are able to go on hunts several times a year or go to say Africa and do a hunt every year.

Then when they get on one of these sites and start talking about their new gun/scope or how great their most recent hunt was and what they are going after on their next hunt, to the point that due to the sterileness/coldness of the internet, it comes across as bragging and rubbingh other nose in the crap. I think this maybe happening more so because of the state of the economy and a good many folks are seeing the chance to buy new toys and go on adventures slipping farther and farther away from them.

So out of petty jealousy/envy/resentment and the manner in which it can and does build up in an individual, it manifests its self iun people lashing out at those more fortunate then themself at that point in time.

Just an observation from someone fighting a little insomnia.

I tend to agree with you. Lots of people are not in the best of financial shape right now,myself included. Some people cannot handle it as well as others. They are pissed at the situation not at a specific person. But that anger gets directed at times onto someone. Weather it is deserved or not.

It can twist you up inside when you read some posts. You might be struggling to pay this months bills and your wondering how your going to afford a deer hunt thirty miles from home. Then you read about someone going on a hunt that costs more than half your yearly wage if not more. On top of that you read about all the new stuff that is bought just for the hunt. You are not jealous of the other hunter. Just wish it was you. Maybe not the hunt per say but the ability to do it.

Now before this turns ugly keep the posts about working hard and budgeting to afford things. They are a lot of people that for whatever reason despite trying to do everything right get caught in a shit storm in life. That might cause the biggest rift between people onlin as well as real life. Not saying all but a lot of successful people have had most everything go right in life for them.They figure that if everyone does what they did they could have the same things they have. They don't understand that a lot of success or lack there of in life comes through the things that cannot be controlled.

Then we throw in the nature of the internet. Lots of people look for a reason to jump on someone. Get a kick out of starting shit and love to keep someone going once they start.

We just need to realize that most people have a shorter fuse than we used to for lots of reasons. Agree to disagree and step back and think about the context that a post is intended to be taken. Realize that people don't want to be preached to. We all know way to little about people and their circumstances to tell them how they should be living their lives. Don't take anything personal and just except that some day you might be the person that gets unloaded on for all the crap someone else has to deal with. Don't want to argue if that is right or wrong just saying that is the way it is.

I'm not into poetry, but there's a line from a poem (made into a pop song in the 1970's) called "Desiderata" that sums up the issue very well:

"If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself."

This seems to be especially true with hunting. I am a hunter, it's what I am, not just something that I do. Unfortunately there is just something about hunting that brings out the worst in people, including greed and envy. I don't know what it is but so many of us end up becoming either braggers or whiners.

I've gone on annual low-budget guided and/or out of state hunts for almost 30 years and have seen both sides. Friends that would have a hard time scraping up enough cash to hunt 30 miles from home say "it must be nice" while my more well-to-do acquantinces practically laugh at the cow or raghorn bull elk, spindly horned buck or doe deer that I bring back.

It's to the point where I say screw 'em both. One of these days I'll tell my envious friends "it must be nice to drive a newer truck or have that big screen TV but I'd rather spend my limited funds on hunting." And to my rich friends, "I congradulate you on your success. But I'll be really impressed when I see you spend 25+% of your gross income on hunting like I do."

I try to take my opportunities and successes as they come, and be grateful for them, and not worry about the other guy. But it's not easy..

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"If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself."

Many Thanks for posting that. I had never read it or heard it, but it describes one of the most basic concepts I live by. I am comfortable in my own skin. I know just as sure as the sun rises in the east that there are people that have more than I do or ever will have and there are people with a lot less. I feel bad for those with less and do not begrudge those that have more.

One other aspect I have noticed about the internet and the envy concept is that when conversations begin to break down many folks it seem become internet pyschologists.

When my oldest son graduated from college, I gave him a watch and chain with a pen knife. On the pen knife, I had "desiderata" engraved. The entire poem is something to live by.

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The entire poem is something to live by.

Maybe, but that line that goes "avoid loud and agressive persons.." could mean no more AR board.

It could be the reasons why some folks do get upset when others go on a lot of those type of hunts.
As for me I could care less I have my own life to look after and it takes up most of all of my day.
But I do think that if one can go to far away places or buy the latest or greatest,1 or 20,more power to them.
I sometimes find myself reading about their hunts and new rifles,but do not get jealous or pissed at them for doing it.

I wonder if "petty jealousy" is the culprit. IMO, the source is the insecure egos .... of which there are many, both here and in other sites dealing with (mostly) male activities (no offense intended to the essential distaff side of life). I don't know why this is. It is dysfunctional. But, it's here......and everywhere else.

Crazyhorse,

Thanks for starting such a valuable thread. I grew up as a poor / lower middle class boy in the mountains of North Georgia, and we hunted locally on National Forest Service and WMA properties. Game was scarce, but it wasn't about the kill; it was about the family experience.

When I was 13 my dad gave me a Harrington & Richardson Topper single shot in 16 gauge. This gun was my bird gun, duck gun, deer gun with slugs, and varmit / squirrel gun. It was all I had until I started working for my first big caliber rifle.

After years of working hard, service in the military and moving many times with my young family, I was able to purchase what I call my first "fine gun;" an item that will continue to go up in value.

We all have different levels of treasures. It's not necessarily the guns / scopes / gadgets, but the memories and experiences that make things treasures / trophies. It is nice to be able to handle and hunt with the best made firearms, but that's not the most important thing.

I often recommend some of the more expensive firearms when folks inquire about certain types of guns, but I always remember that Topper 16 gauge and how proud I was of that single shot.

No one should need feel embarrassed, envious, jealous, or dis-heartened for not being able to afford all the luxuries in life. I certainly cannot afford all the big safaris / guided hunts. I do find great joy in reading or hearing about someone else's success in the field, whether it be Africa or here in the US.

Just like when I read Ruark or Capstick, I can dream and hope that someday / someday.

Mike

Good post CHC and a bunch of excellent responses!!!

Thank You Mike. I don't know that it is valuable, but it might cause some individuals to stop and think for a second or two.

Over my hunting career I have noticed a change in hunter attitudes and to me it has become most noticeable among the folks 45 and younger.

Whether it is envy, competetiveness, greed, whatever I do not know. All of us that hunt and love and respect the outdoors are usua;lly pretty passionate with those feelings and often fairly opinionated. Many of us, join sites such as AR simply because we do not have anyone in our daily lives or immediate personal peer group that has the same level of feelings or thoughts as each of us does. Joining such forums/chat rooms/bulletin boards allows us to make contact with individuals of a like mind as ours.

On the down side however, it brings us in contact with individuals that for whatever their reason, find it easier to brag about all that they have done or all that they have bought, how much better their hunting ethics are, how much better of a hunter they are either thru their choice of hunting method or where they choose to hunt. Many also seem to place their judgement of fellow hunters based soley on the number of "Record Book Classs Animals" another person has killed compared to their own kills.

In my opinion, regardless of whether it has anything to do with the 3 things I listed earlier in this response or just plain old human nature, it is not good for hunting or hunters. In fact I firmly believe that because of these feelings among hunters, as a group, we are doing more toward seeing the end of hunting than the anti's.

If you want to see this type of behavior in action,pull into a Walmart store with a new car or pick up truck.Park it where you can have a good vantage point with out being seen.I will give you 10 to 1 odds that the paint will be keyed within an hour.This is what our Society has become.Folks who think they are owed something by everyone else,but do not actually want to earn it.When they see someone who has something nice,they want to destroy it.I would say success reminds them of their own inadequacies .

It seems that it is more previlant now than when I used to listen to my grandparents talk with admiration of friends that went on trips or got new farm equipment. I would say though, in my experience it seems that it starts with the baby boomers on down. my family is from farm country in western MN and it amazing how many folks in their 60s have taken 3 generations of blood and sweat, and rather than pass on the farm to the 4th gen, they cash out. these were the same people that would sit in the coffee shop and cut down the "city hunters" that would come out with their fancy trucks and boats and "probably haven't ever even shot a duck, or caught a walleye." These are the same people that now make fun of my 20 year old boat and Flambeau decoys. The old style hunt camps are all but gone as the land has been sold. It has become very competitive to get a spot to hunt and find game. It leads to alot of hard feelings and bitterness. That has been passed down a couple of times now and the kinship hunters had has turned into opposition that must be beaten, and seldom is there quarter given. God help us preserve our way of life as we continue to divide ourselves.

My folks taught me that if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. It applies to the forums as well. Seems like some just want to post for posting's sake. Personally I try to only post when I have something positive to contribute to the conversation, be it information, affirmation or humor.

I shared camp on a guided Texas antelope hunt in October 2010 with a member of this forum that complained about everything to a point he made my trip miserable.

I killed a good animal and even shot a pile of sod poodles and a couple coyote's and as long as I was not in the company of that guy I had a great time.


On the flip side is the bragger....I have hunted with guys that talked about booners and inches not just a good buck but called the deer by record class

Thats not much fun either

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All of us that hunt and love and respect the outdoors are usua;lly pretty passionate with those feelings and often fairly opinionated. Many of us, join sites such as AR simply because we do not have anyone in our daily lives or immediate personal peer group that has the same level of feelings or thoughts as each of us does. Joining such forums/chat rooms/bulletin boards allows us to make contact with individuals of a like mind as ours.

If that quote doesn't describe me to a T, I don't know what does, LOL!

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I killed a good animal and even shot a pile of sod poodles and a couple coyote's and as long as I was not in the company of that guy I had a great time.

One of the reasons that when I book a guided hunt, I either go by myself or Lora goes along. Having a jerk in camp is bad, if that jerk accidently happens to be the person you came on the hunt with is worse. On hunts, I either stay to myself somewhat or hang out with the guide crew/camp staff.

Guided hunts are supposed to be a fun, exciting adventure having one jerk in camp makes it rough on everyone involved.

I started out this website at about 23 or so, I am 38 in a few months. I have had a few names, sometimes I lost my account when their was an upgrade, and once or twice I changed it to get away from an idiot.

My wife have conversations about this very Jealousy concept on a regular basis. She has a friend who has stayed 120 pounds through 3 babies, and her parents send them tons of money every month, so they are able to travel and do quite a bit more than us. She has issue with that, but it always comes back to the same ideal that it took me a long time to learn.

I was pretty jealous in my 20's of those that took big animals and got to go on expensive hunts with nice rifles.

Today I realize that while I have got to do a bit of hunting, I am not in a position with a brand new wife and new babies to be buying the stuff I owned and taking the hunting trips I went on before.

I think commandment 8 or 9 is though shall not covet thy neighbors house, wife or so on. When I was single and considering becoming a Orthodox Priest I studied the book quite a bit. To me this meant that you should not be envious or jealous of another person or their belongings, including their wife.

I personally believe that you have to pay your way every day in life toward your salvation. This is not a popular concept in mainstream Christian religion. And even if you are a non believer, it behooves you as a person to treat people correctly.

At the end of the day wether a person chooses to treat others as an equal or like shit is up to them. Not everyone is the same point in their life as everyone else on this website. It's not a race and we didn't all start out equal. Some will always have more because they were born into it or have done the work in their business or through education to have a lot more money. Some live in expensive places and don't make much, and some live in cheap places and have large incomes. Life is not about equality.



It is very easy to sit on the other side of the planet and cast blame, suspicion, or defamation on someone you don't know. As there is no check valve on the internet that keeps you from being an asshole just because you can. That in essence is the problem.

I like humble honest people there are quite a few good ones on AR.

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Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:

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All of us that hunt and love and respect the outdoors are usua;lly pretty passionate with those feelings and often fairly opinionated. Many of us, join sites such as AR simply because we do not have anyone in our daily lives or immediate personal peer group that has the same level of feelings or thoughts as each of us does. Joining such forums/chat rooms/bulletin boards allows us to make contact with individuals of a like mind as ours.

If that quote doesn't describe me to a T, I don't know what does, LOL!

I am the same we have a real fininte number of people here where I live that are nuts about firearms and hunting.

I'm not sure it's an issue of envy.
Many threads go south when someone expresses his thoughts based on his experiences and then gets flamed because he's wrong or it couldn't be that way because of one reason or another.

People have different experiences. Those experiences effect ones opinion of things. Until you've had enough experiences to have something to compare your limited.

I hate it when someone justifies their ill manners and "knowledge" by basing it on money spent.
A man who buys and owns a ton of different rifles will rarely become an expert with any of them. While the man who uses only a few may become not only very good with them but very experienced with what can be done, which componets work well, etc.
A dismissive arogant person isn't much fun to discuss things with.

You can see by a persons join date and comparing their number of posts how much they post. Posting for the sake of posting isn't always a contribution.

I think it is a combination of what everyone is saying. Hunters are a motley, diverse crew to say the least. This site as well as many others, are all very similar as per the hunters who post, what they post,how they post it, and some are probably the same guys posting on several. Jealousy, bravado,rich, poor, experienced, inexperienced, unfortunately you find it all in the hunting community. I have shared camps with them all, both as a guide and as a paying hunter, as many of you have. On a rare occasion, you find a down-to-earth, salt of the arth kind of hunter. They become a friend. My son has guided for 14 years,any where from actors, politicians, millionares, to mechanics and store clerks. He will tell you, time and again, the t-shirt, blue jean, blue collar kind of guy is on average the best to deal with.

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I'm not sure it's an issue of envy.
Many threads go south when someone expresses his thoughts based on his experiences and then gets flamed because he's wrong or it couldn't be that way because of one reason or another.

Sums it up pretty good. Egos!

Envy is only part of the problem. stop for a m inute and contemplate this. When someone/anyone talks about getting to do something/anything they truly enjoy on a daily basis, where as you may only grt to engage in the same acvtivity for just a few days a year, doesn't it make you wish you were able to be involved more than what you are????? If the answer is yes, than you are affected just like most of us.

Yes, we are realist and know we cannot spend that much time in the field, but it does not make us stop wanting to spend that time, now does it? Again, if the answer is yes, than you are affected.