Last year on opening day for whitetail here in Kansas I was on private land. Got to my spot about 30 minutes before you could see the light bleeding through the dark. Just before sunrise I spotted two goood size bucks, one 10 point and one 12 point at about 200 yards. I was getting ready to take a shot and this truck pulls up at the opposite end of the hedgerow about 300 yards, and sticks his rifle out of the window and proceeds to blast away, 3 times, missing the deer, and richocheting towards me. Man I was pissed, I jumped up and flashed myself at him (wearing hunter orange vest and hat), and he took off like a bat out of hell. I had my cell phone with me and tried to reach the poacher hotline, I've got no signal, now I'm even more ticked off.

Later I related this to two other hunters and both of them said that they would have shot at his truck bed, I thought about that, but with my luck I would have hit the poacher and not his truck.

Has this ever happened to any of you? And what would you guys have done. There is no sheriff out in those parts of the country.

I also hunt and live in Kansas. Since there is one game warden for every 3-8 counties, I think it happens more than any of us would like. Where I hunt in Northern Kansas we called on a guy four or five times before they finally got him. They caught him with nine deer in the back of the truck that were untagged. I thought it was great. His guns went up for auction as did his truck. They left it to the county to prosecute and they treated it as carrying an illegal substance. (Not exactly, but the results were the same)

The ont that gets me the worst is when the road hunters drove on the land I hunt in Missouri and shot the hell out of my decoy. Three of them shooting at once. Luckily the warden had been following them all morning just hoping for something like that. I did get a new decoy out of it. I don't know what happened to the roadies.

Needless to say, this is a very sore subject with me. No, I would not shoot their truck. It ain't worth dieing for, because they may shoot back.

[ 11-08-2002, 18:39: Message edited by: larrys ]

Shooting at the miscreant's truck would have turned a near-tragedy into a certain tragedy. Had you actually hit it, the resulting evidence could have convicted you of anything from attempted murder down to wreckless conduct and turned a sorry poacher into a sympathetic victim in the eyes of the law and the public. Monday morning quarterbacks are always full of irresponsible bravado, but you did exactly the right thing. Too bad your cell phone didn't have a signal.

If you've got room in your backpack a camera with telephoto lens or a video camera would be nice. Shooting at their truck would be a bad idea, you did the right thing. Even a police officer has very strict limits on when they can shoot at someone, and this wouldn't qualify. Why do you think they risk a multi hour high speed pursuit when they could just shoot a guy they're chasing? The public is way more accepting of auto deaths than shootings.

Sometimes if you're on the edge of cellphone coverage getting up a few feet off the ground will get you enough signal to make a call, climbing a tree or standing on a car roof has done it for me at times. Also, making sure your phone has analog capability will generally get you a lot more rural coverage.

I'm glad you weren't hurt.

[ 11-08-2002, 22:28: Message edited by: Loren ]

Good point Loren. Charlie, the answer is clear. Get the biggest damn truck you can get your hands on so next time you can run their sorry asses off the road

Honestly you did the right thing. We've all seen poachers but I've never had one shoot in my direction.

Charlie,

If they aren't fleeing as in your example, ALWAYS SHOOT BACK!
I was hunting jack rabbits in southeaster Utah with my .416 Rem Mag to get a little snap shot practice and some idiots started firing from a mesa about 300-400 yards away. I could hear the bullets flying over my head so I ducked behind a decent sized hill and yelled a couple of times to try to get their attention. That didn't work so they got four 400 grain X-bullets in their general direction. I threw a couple rounds really high and when that didn't stop them I dumped a couple rounds at their truck (about 20 yard to their left). They left promptly and I am, to this day, not sure if I hit the truck or if they had just finished shooting but, hell, if someone is going to fling lead at me you can be damn sure they are going to get some back!

JMHO,

JohnTheGreek

[ 11-09-2002, 02:34: Message edited by: JohnTheGreek ]

The number of slobs, trespassers, road hunters, unscrupulous officials & landowners, and activists has pretty much extinguished any desire to hunt popular areas for me. Had enough.

It seems embarassingly widespread of late.

Redial

JTG,

I couldn't agree with your actions more. Too bad you didn't put one through their engine block.

[ 11-09-2002, 03:11: Message edited by: Longbob ]

Although I would not shoot at the poachers I would fire off a round so they see the muzzleflash and think I am shooting at them.They would think twice about poaching in that area again.

Charlie, I hate to say it, but if you had shot their truck...AND MISSED THEM...they could still have hung your ass out to dry in the legal system if it had come to that.

In fact they COULD have deliberately started shooting AT YOU. Your bullet in their truck would have made a good case against you that YOU were the bad guy.

Or they just could have left and come back with the law and carted you off under a number of various charges...some of which would have stuck.

Basically they were poaching deer. YOU were shooting at PEOPLE. I strongly suspect the liberal courts would have torn you to pieces. That's my opinion.

I don't like it, but that's the way it is.

I had a couple of road hunting fools spray bullets all over and around my house one night while my family and I slept. I went out and put a 30/06 bullet about a foot over their heads. It escalated until I was finally standing nose to nose with them with my 38 PROMISING them I would kill them if they ever came back, then backing my car up against theirs and trashing their car with rocks and gravel. They got the message and never came back...which is good cause I wasn't kidding.

But that was a really dangerous situation for all concerned. You want to NOT let your anger run away with you as I came close to doing. Once you start down that slope, it gets really slippery. You never know what the other fool is going to do. Any funky move he makes, you may interpret the wrong way.

The BEST way is just to back off and let the authorities handle it. Concentrate on things like license plates, vehicle type, make, color. Identity of the occupants, etc. if you can get any of the above.

But you are really asking for trouble when you shoot at or near someone...justified or not.

If it's a matter of your survival, then you have a legal leg to stand on...but lord help you if you start it just because some one is pissing you off or doing some petty crime. Poaching a deer isn't like robbing a bank.

Again, I don't like it...but it's reality.

JtG,
now that is funny, to bad you didnt send one thru their engine block

reminds me of the movie Navy Seals, when the sniper, God would shot thru the block walls with the McMillan 50 cal, BMG....

R Waller,

It's a little funny now but sure wasn't at the time. I was wishing I could have subsituted my .416 with a 2.5x scope for my 40X in .308 at that moment. Their tires would have been history!


Regards,

JohnTheGreek

In September of 1989 I had a run in with poachers/trespassers on my farm. I did all the right things, got plate numbers, called the law, they were picked up and charged, went to court paid $50 and cost. On Oct 11 1989 the chain on my lock on broke as I was getting in and re-positioning my safty strap, fell 14 feet spent 14 hours at the bottom of a pine tree until my youngest son found me. Chain had been cut almost through as were the chains on the two other lock on stands I had up. Never found who did it. Changed my life it did. Need to be very careful when you deal with these sort of people. I weigh the cost of those poached deer every time I pick up my canes, heavy in deed.

I think a couple of you may have misread my story, I never shot at the clown. But I was told by two other hunters that they would have if they had been in my situation.

Crawfish, I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I hope that your doing okay. As for the poachers what comes around goes around. God has thier number and vengence is his, sooner or later.

[ 11-10-2002, 07:28: Message edited by: CharlieinKansas ]

CHARLIE,
I understand the desire to put people like this out of business, but taking a shot at anyone who is not a threat to your life, or anothers life is a real bad idea. Suppose, just for arguement, you do shoot. You have just committed a felony. I don't think you want to lose your freedom for awhile and spend that time in the joint. Even if you get probation, the days of your owning firearms is over, as well as your hunting. Ok, suppose you hit them and don't kill them, just cripple them. Are you sure you can live with that? Or even want to try to live with it? Now suppose you kill the $&^%#R*. Now you have just created about a dozen victims. Neither you or he live in a vacuum. Your parents as well as his are now your victim. The same goes for the wives and children of both of you. I also wonder how much of what you now own will end up belonging to him or his next of kin after the civil courts get through. I'm glad you didn't shoot. I guess this is aimed more at the individuals who beat their chest and yell so loud about how they would have shot either him or his truck. I only know of three types of people who make such rabid claims. The immature, the stupid and liars. I've gotten to where I kind of like most of the people on this site, I'd really hate to think of any of them in the joint. I've been there, and even with the keys in my hand I didn't like it a bit.

[ 11-10-2002, 08:50: Message edited by: BigBob ]

Bob,

I agree with you entirely! Shooting back is a bad idea if they are in their truck and driving away but if they are lobbing rounds over your head it is pretty much the only option I think.

Crawfish,

Sorry to hear about your difficulties. I am facing a bit of a problem like that at the moment. A subcontractor on my house remodel project is essentially cheating me (not a lot but enough to be annoying) and I am trying to decide how much of a stink to make about it. I can play dirty too but would just as soon avoid problems to begin with you know.

Regards,

JohnTheGreek

Shooting back at Poachers? bad idea.

This happened some years ago in Northern Wisconsin. Some poachers shot and killed a deer in the land owners field and drove out into the field to retrieve the deer when the land owner took a shot, the shot mortally wounded one of the poachers. The owner stated he was fed up with poachers and had no intent to hit the individual just scare the devil out of him. He was charged and convicted of Murder, I do not know what degree but definely not first degree or accidential homicide. As much as you would like to to discharge a firearm at someone or toward someone it is attempted murder if you miss or wound, or murder if you connect and kill. Even if you shoot someone by accident with no intent you would be sued for civil damages which could strip you of everything you owned, and rightly so. What if some yoke does the classic "shoot the moving bushes, not knowing what is causing it" and it happens to be you, with wife family and mortgage, how would you make things right? Call the police or get identifiers, now if he shoots at you....different story...self defense and only a fool allows his adversary to reload or get to better cover.

Charlie - No, I think everyone read your post correctly...but most of us are guilty of projecting things ahead to the next level of "whatif's." And it's good to get the combined wisdom out now and then as we never know when one of us will face a similar situation.

John the Greek - Don't know your situation but if you're POSITIVE you are being cheated, I think I would do something. The contractor is probably cheating you in shoddy workmanship and other ways NOT so obvious as well.

If you want to try any legal action, I would talk to a lawyer before I exposed my hand. Some legal actions are damned hard to follow thru on.

You're best option may just be to sack him from the job and get another builder. But you know your situation better than any of us. I don't like getting slimed.

Charlie,
You asked if something like that had ever happened to anyone else. Your situation of being on the other side of the game being shot at reminded me of when something like that happened to me. Like you, I did not shoot. I have been thankful that I didnt shoot for more than 20 years now.

I was driving on my own farm where I had been running off poachers for several years including two the day before who didnt take it very well - we had got into quite a shouting match which I now know was pretty stupid since we were all three armed with shotguns.

The next morning (it was during turkey season and I had quit hunting because a really strong wind had come up) as I topped a ridge in my pickup shotgun pellets sprayed my windshield from close range. My first thought was that one of the guys I had run off the day before was shooting at me.

I bailed out of the drivers side and aimed my shotgun thru the opening between the door and pickup body at the now fleeing poacher. At that same instant he turned and seeing me aiming at him aimed back at me. Somehow we both held off and he turned and ran thru the brush.

When my nerves settled I looked around and found that he had killed a nice turkey with two beards between my pickup and where he had shot from. It gradually became obvious that the wind had kept him from hearing my pickup approach and he shot the turkey just as I topped the ridge.

I thank God to this day that neither of us shot at each other. No game animal is worth that. Besides, I ate his damn turkey.

Pecos,

He has been sacked in a manner of speaking. He was supposed to show up last Wednesday to finish my hardwood floors and I haven't seen him since then. His girlfriend is covering for him (she seems to have the act down pretty well) so I have just hired someone else and we'll see if he shows up on monday. That should be interesting, duelling floor guys!

JohnTheGreek