The last two groups of hunters I have had fly into DFW or Love Field, have had problems with the airlines concerning getting their guns on a flight.

I prefer hunters bring their own rifles to hunt with, simply becausec I prefer to hunt with my own rifles.

One of the things I have been considering is putting a rig together that will be adequate and comfortable for a hunter to use.

My own tastes in rifles really does not mesh with many folks.

Since the only critters that clients will be shooting at are Feral Hog/White tail Deer/ Coyotes and Bobcats, I have been considering putting together a rifle/scope combo that will work for the game listed and the average hunter can shoot.

The choice I am looking at is something in 7mm-08 with either a fixed 6 power scope or a 3x9 variable.

Any thoughts, and PLEASE keep in mind, my clients will be shooting from blinds/stands overlooking timed feeders at ranges from 75 yards to 200 yards.

I have had some clients come down and use my rifles successfully, but they had to make some serious adjustments to take a shot.

7mm-08 is a good choice 3x9 is a good choice.

They should work well.

and another

Do whatever your opinion tells you to do, as you do not really care what other people think.

Someone will give their opinion and you will proceed to drag them through the mud.

You are 60 plus years old and have how many years of hunting/guiding experience?

Make a decision and be done with it. You have a prime opportunity to force your opinions on others in real life no less. What is stopping you?

I would go with something I could get ammo from Robert's store for. A 308 might be a little more practical. But the 7-08 will certainly work as well.

Or the dreaded 270 lol

Whatever I go with will be using handloads.

I have had plenty of success over the years, both with my own shooting and having other hunters use my rifles.

I appreciate the comments from those actually offering constructive advice.

I am more interested in caliber and scope choice, as ammunition choice will be handloads with Barnes Bullets of some flavor.

Thanks to those that offered actual advice.

.270 is an option as is the .308 and .30-06 and it will depend on what I can find, but the .7mm-08 interests me and it is a caliber I think my wife could shoot and is not that big a step up from her .257 Roberts.'

Randall, I'll dispense with pix in this instance. I've probably killed more stuff with a 7mm-08 and 140 gr. Nosler Accubonds than any other single cartridge/bullet combo. IIRC I have 6 rifles chambered for 7mm-08 in house. I don't think you can go wrong with the 7mm-08. I figure 4X per hundred yds on scope magnification. So your hunters should be good to 200 yds. with a 3-9 variable. If your MV is +/- 2,800 and a 200 yd. zero, POI should only be +/- 2" high at 100 yds. Anywho, works for me.

ya!


GWB

Randal,
I have a friend down your way who keeps several 7mm-08s for exactly this...
Very good choice as well as perhaps a 308 or .270.. All of these have light recoil and are super easy to get ammo for.

No really bad choices here. A nice basic bolt action like a Browning, Winchester, Tikka, or Savage or whatever

A nice basic Scope in the $400 range like a Leopold...
Can't go wrong...

Thank You. I had been looking at getting Lora a 7mm-08n for a few years now because I felt like it would give her a slight advantage over her .257 Roberts, due to an increase in bullet weight, but without an increase in recoil. Staying with a fixed 6 power like she has on her Robert's or going to a 3x9 Leupold would not increase the overall weight that much for her to deal with.

The big deal however is that with the airlines getting more restrictive concerning shipping firearms, and my personal taste in rifles, I would be more comfortable with a client shooting a 7mm-08 at a pig or deer than shooting Lora's .257 or shooting one of my rifles,

Not everyone is all that enthusiastic about shooting .300 Weatherby's/.35 Whelens or .375 H&H's if they have never shot them before.

Randall,

I've the Ruger American Rifles in 223 Rem, 6mm and 6.5 Creedmoor. Each shoot MOA or better at 100 yds., are inexpensive and work.

Here is a link......

https://www.budsgunshop.com/ca...MERICAN+7MM-08+MTBLK

or you could probably find them pre-enjoyed for less on gunbroker.


ya!


GWB

Funny, but I seriously looked at one of those in 7mm-08 shortly before Lora and I moved out to Young county.

She has done so good with her Robert's that I decided to stay with that for her hunting.

My main reason for starting the thread is that it seems like the airlines are getting stricter and goofier on shippingb firearms.

If a client is driving to here, no problemo. But if they are flying in to DFW or Love Field, issues arise andf from what I have read and heard the 7mm-08 is a better option on pigs at least than the Robert's, if for no other reason than bullet weight.

With my handloads and the gun/scope combo sighted in at the ranges we deal with at our various set , I think a client would be more comfortable with that rig, especially if they have never shot a .300 Weatherby or .35 Whelen (especially since mine has an 8 pound trigger pull) or dragging out my .375 H&H.

I have had folks tickled to shoot the .375, but they are not in the majority.

I am just wanting to have a reasonable option if a client does not want to go thru the hassle of dealing with the airlines.

I'm hearing great things about the 7mm-08, but with my username I'll have to go along with a decent rifle of that caliber topped with a decent Leupold 3-9 scope.

Randall:
I've never been around a 7/08. Know they're dandy though.
I will make you an offer you can count on.
IF you go with .270, believe I still have a Bunch of brass and two sets of dies.
Know for sure I have most of 5 gal of '06 brass.
Much more than I'll ever need or use. Never owned a .270, loaded for a buddy that's moved away years ago. Don't know if it's been decapped n resized or not. It ALL has been run thru the shaker and is clean.
Let me know if you can use any of either, and how much brass. No extra '06 dies though. Expect you've got a set anyway.

I would suggest you set up a 100yd range and insist "they" fire a few before going hunting so they'll know where it shoots.

Great idea to have a loaner.

George

Great choices. Lots of ammo and bullet choices available. Pretty mild recoil and plenty of killing power.

The only gun I've borrowed for an entire hunt was in NZ and a Kimber 7mm/08. Did great on a very nice red stag at about 150 yards. Plenty of gun for Texas and the setup you've described.

Leupy 3x9 should be just the ticket. Might have them shoot off a bag at both the range and take it to the blind. Just a thought....

One of the things we try to do whether hunters bring their own rifles or use one of ours is to get the,m out to our range and let them check out which ever gun they will be using.

This proved to be well worth the effort with my last client because the loasner rifle had not been shot in about two years and had been doing a bunch of riding in one of the pickups. I decided we needed to check it out and sure enough the scxope was way off and luckily enough the clients own rifle had made the trip down in great shape and even though he only had 3 shells for it, it only took oner shotb to get his pig.

7mm-08-270-308 or 30-06 any of those are options, it is just I have been interested in the 7mm-08 for a few years now and reaslly have not heard very many discouraging words about it.

Thanks to everyone for their comments.

You can't go wrong with the 7-98 IMO. I've used one to kill hundreds of animals including hogs, deer, aoudad, and a few antelope. Like GW, I really like the performance and killing power of the 140 Accubond, and they are very accurate. For an even milder kicker, the 120 Ballistic Tip is a deer killing machine. Just a couple of weeks ago I killed a nice sized Axis buck with the 120. He dropped in his tracks with a 120 running a mere 2800 fps.

We don't do it much anymore, but in my 15 years of guiding hunters, most of them showed up over scoped and over gunned.

You'll find great prices at Whittaker's guns. If I wanted a 6x I'd go straight to the Meopta Meopro, and I love VX3 variables if you're going the variable route.

There is nothing wrong with your wish to go with the 7-08 and handloaded ammunition so far as the act of killing hogs/deer/coyotes.

The problem is that your clients may not be familiar with the cartridge and may not be comfortable shooting handloaded cartridges (although I have every confidence that you would build faultless ammunition superior to anything coming from a factory.)

If a hunter is going to hunt with an unfamiliar rifle then it is probably better to have him hunt with something like a .308 (which everyone is familiar with) and using factory ammunition (which some people are more comfortable with, despite its being in ways lower in quality and accuracy than well-tailored handloads.)

So, my advice would be, for the confidence and comfort of some of your clients, get something like a Remington 700 in .308, put a Leupold 2-7X on it (the wider FOV compared to a higher power scope will help some neophyte find the sight picture), and stock a supply of 150 grain Corelocts. This is an "everyman" combination with which no one will be uncomfortable and which is capable of killing any hog inside of 200 yards. It is a pedestrian combination which wouldn't interest me (or you) to own or shoot, but it fills the need you have.

Interesting thoughts on the subject.

From my experience so far, none of our/my clients that have used one of our rifles has had an issue, with the exception of one that was used to lighter trigger pulls than my .35 Whelen has. That was solved by letting him use my .300 Weatherby.

One thing I have learned over the years that I have been doing guided hunts and others mileage will/may vary but I have not ran into any really picky hunters and the folks that I have been round that take their hunting SERIOUSLY, show up with 2 or 3 rifles, an extra set of binoculars and 50 or 60 rounds of ammo for each rifle along with a small tool kit/cleaning kit.

Also they drive their own vehicles to camp and are ready to hunt.

Once we get the other rifle sighted back in, there should be no issue, it is a Kimber in .308, cannot remember what brand scope, it is a variable, higher end model and Robert only uses factory loads in it.

One thing I have learned is that the type hunts we offer do not attract picky people.

Your comments have given me some things to consider.

For shooting the species you noted in Texas I have no issue with a 243 if you handload.
If it were me, it would be a older Sako (forester) with a 6X42 Leopold with a 1" Leopold dot reticle.
A 95 Gr Nolser partition @ 3100 FPS will dispatch anything you noted if you put the bullet where you mean too. Your Barnes selection is good as well.
A trick on really big hogs is many times they will run a little way after hit. If it is a big one. Take the first shot and hit it in the hips. It was sit like a dog and squeal like crazy but not move. Take a quick second shot in the boiler room and lights out!
Personally I would rather them run off and die, I am not going to eat a big one anyway. Just very destructive pests.


EZ

Get a Weatherby Vanguard/Howa 1500 in 30-06 (most experienced hunters have shot or used a 30-06 at some point) and a leupold vx-II 3-9x40 and call it good.

Have your clients ship their rifle directly to you and ship them home when they leave.otherwise as suggested a Ruger American is a very accurate rifle at a modest price.Just make sure your client actually shoots it before he hunts.As far as hand loading for someone else,Bad Idea.You can buy Winchester white box ammo for under 20 bux a box and it is very accurate.

OLBIKER beat me to it - handloads are not a good idea. Might even be technically illegal since the clients are paying customers. I essence you would be a "manufacturer" who is "selling" your product as part of a package.

As for the rifle and caliber, what did most of your clients bring? A common caliber in a popular make would be more familiar. I prefer fixed power scopes but a 3X9 would be better for this purpose.

I took the train one year to a cow elk hunt in New Mexico and firearms were prohibited onboard. I normally shoot a .338 Ruger so the guide loaned me a Ruger in .300 Win Mag. Different caliber but at least handling the rifle was familiar. Not that I'd have a problem with another make, but that extra split second it takes to find the safety might make a big difference.

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
For shooting the species you noted in Texas I have no issue with a 243 if you handload.
If it were me, it would be a older Sako (forester) with a 6X42 Leopold with a 1" Leopold dot reticle.
A 95 Gr Nolser partition @ 3100 FPS will dispatch anything you noted if you put the bullet where you mean too. Your Barnes selection is good as well.
A trick on really big hogs is many times they will run a little way after hit. If it is a big one. Take the first shot and hit it in the hips. It was sit like a dog and squeal like crazy but not move. Take a quick second shot in the boiler room and lights out!
Personally I would rather them run off and die, I am not going to eat a big one anyway. Just very destructive pests.


EZ

All you say here is true however it is for an experienced Hunter such as yourself.
The hunter showing up and paying for a guided hunt, renting/borrowing a rifle from the outfitter is likely to be less experienced. Also regardless of size the animal should be recovered for at least the trophy pictures.

A 7-08 (or anything similar) would do fine. I would suggest a heavy rifle, weight not cartridge, to hold steady since the it will not have to be carried around all day. Just dropped off at the stand from truck.

M

Interesting observations.

I do have issues with the .243, especially on hogs.

Deer are one thing, hogs are a different matter.

As the majority of our clients are able to bring their own personal rifles, this is merely a look into alternatives, especially if airlines continue impopsing more restrictive fees/limitations on what firfearms will be permitted.

Everyones comments are appreciated on this.

quote:

A 7-08 (or anything similar) would do fine. I would suggest a heavy rifle, weight not cartridge, to hold steady since the it will not have to be carried around all day. Just dropped off at the stand from truck.

I do not drop anyone off at a stand and leave them! I do Guided Hunts, that means I baby sit them the entire duration of the hunt!

If I have a repeat client and they bring a friend, the repeat client might set at a stand by themselves, but new clients are NOT going to enjoy that option.

Until/unless they have actually hunted with me, I do not leave ANYONE to their own devices!

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

A 7-08 (or anything similar) would do fine. I would suggest a heavy rifle, weight not cartridge, to hold steady since the it will not have to be carried around all day. Just dropped off at the stand from truck.

I do not drop anyone off at a stand and leave them! I do Guided Hunts, that means I baby sit them the entire duration of the hunt!

If I have a repeat client and they bring a friend, the repeat client might set at a stand by themselves, but new clients are NOT going to enjoy that option.

Until/unless they have actually hunted with me, I do not leave ANYONE to their own devices!

Understood.
I was meaning the gun is "dropped off" with the hunter and not have to be carried far.
I would not let strangers out on their own either.

quote:

Understood.
I was meaning the gun is "dropped off" with the hunter and not have to be carried far.
I would not let strangers out on their own either.

I understood what you were saying, and I agree, but unless it is a hunter that has hunted with me previously, I Babysit them.

There is simply too much that can go wrong and for me, seeing that the client has a good, safe and hopefully successful hunt is my goal.

Well shit! I was going to try to set up a hog hunt for me and my Wyoming buddy for late this year, but I'll be dipped after hunting for 65 of my 70 years that I need someone babysitting me in a blind!!!

Sorry, that is just the way it works on my hunts, especially for anyone that has not hunted with me before.

I offer guided hog hunts year round and a few guided doe hunts during deer season, but apart from TP&W regulations my boss and myself have rules that our hunters have to follow if they want to do a hunt with us.

From what I have experienced over the years on the guided hunts I have gone on, apart from state/province Game Regulation, the guide/outfitter had their own rules concerning what clients could/could not do.

So I seriously doubt that my boss and I are the ONLY ones that have such requirements for our clients.

Choice af cartridge I'd find pretty easy. No idea hoe much recoil a client can handle so I'd go on the light side there. 260/6.5 CM would probably be my choice. Nor one animal on your list a 6.5 bullet in 130gr can't handle and then some. Rifle of choice might differ but your supplying the rifle, get what you like. I'm pretty much into Rem 700's but last year got into a Mossberg Partiot and really like it. Cost is low, with a plastic stock mine was $299 but I did replace the plastic stock with a real stock. In my own experience either that or a 700 ADL would be the way to go. Like everyone else, I've read a ton of good about the Savage and Ruger kit guns. If not for my own like's, I'd try one of them out. It should be what I'd think of as a nice rifle, wood stock and blue or black barrel. Sight's I'd go either Nikon or Redfield in 2-7x. if I was to get into a deal like that as a hunter and someone handed me what I though was an ulgy or cheap rifle, I'd be insulted. At the same time I would be happy with a rifle that had appeal to me. Little hint, if you do reload, make up the most accurate ammo you can and be sure to have the client shoot it at a target before hunting. If you can give the client a really accurate rifle, some thing's can be over looked!

About the Nikon and Redfield scope's, I use Nikon camera's and never have considered anything else in a DSLR. For that reason I tried out a Nikon scope, love them! And My love of Redfield scope's goes way back to Denver. I still have and use two old Denver scope's and no though of changing either. Redfield went down hill badly for a long time but the Leupold/Redfield is a different dog! I also have two Leupold/redfields and absolutely love them. My favorite scope's are 2-7x these days. Shooting to 200yds they will work fine but then so will a 3-9x. My own to favorite's are my old Redfields in 2 3/4 fixed and 1-4x.

Shooting at 200 yds max, I'd definitely sight in usng MPBR at say a 6" target. Cover's everything to 200yds easily and to miss the shooter would either have to try very hard or be a very bad shot!

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Sorry, that is just the way it works on my hunts, especially for anyone that has not hunted with me before.

I offer guided hog hunts year round and a few guided doe hunts during deer season, but apart from TP&W regulations my boss and myself have rules that our hunters have to follow if they want to do a hunt with us.

From what I have experienced over the years on the guided hunts I have gone on, apart from state/province Game Regulation, the guide/outfitter had their own rules concerning what clients could/could not do.

So I seriously doubt that my boss and I are the ONLY ones that have such requirements for our clients.

I can understand accompanying a client on a deer hunt, but what are you going to do with a seasoned person like myself while we're sitting there waiting for a hog to come in? Maybe bore me to death with your questions and opinions, LOL! I've been on a lot of websites looking for a hog hunt and I've yet to see one that has a person stay in the blind with you whether it's in Texas or any other state! Most just take you to the blind and then pick you up at the end of the hunt. I don't know how many hunters you get a year, but my guess is that you lose a lot of business if that is the rule. However, since it's private property the owner and his hired hand can do whatever they want! Actual guided hunts for deer, elk, and antelope in the various western states is a completely different situation where the guide better damn well stay with you from daylight to dark!

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:
Actual guided hunts for deer, elk, and antelope in the various western states is a completely different situation where the guide better damn well stay with you from daylight to dark!

Why so?

Here is my opinion for what it is worth. I have used a lot of other peoples guns on guided hunts.

Scope. A 30 or 34mm scope with a 3-18, 2.5-15, or something like that, that has some way to dial up to 400 yards.

I used a borrowed rifle with a 13 power Leica on it, and loved the extra power that 13 gave me to differentiate between two bucks at last shooting light.


It should be a conventional action, Savage, Howa, Tikka, Winchester, Remington not a Blaser or something with a ratchet system. If I don't understand the rifle I won't be as safe with it as I should be. More importantly I won't feel comfortable.

I would feel very uncomfortable with your handloads on a hunt I paid a lot of money for. Best give them the option of buying ammo from you for he actual cost per shot. Find a factory load you like and leave it alone.


You are also opening your self up to litigation in the event that the round doesn't fire, or blows up.


Caliber is important, but the scope is more important. 30-06, 308, 7x57, 7mm-08, 280, 7x64, whatever it is doesn't matter. Something in that range. With a mid-weight bullet. 140-165 grains.


Short fat barrels are nice for the hunting blind. A muzzle brake may not be your cup of tea, but recoil is intimidating to some people.


Trigger should be about 2.5-3 pounds. Single stage, most people have not shot a rifle with a two stage trigger. I prefer them, but most people do not.


Stock should be adjustable to fit a variety of people. Manners has a new fiberglass model that works for kids and adults. Grodas stocks from Norway has a plastic model and a laminate model, Boyds has a new adjustable stock as well.


I would pick a 308 Caliber Tikka T3 varmint or CTR in a Grodas Berserk, adjust the trigger to two pounds and a 30mm or 34mm scope with a 2-3 bottom end and 12-18 top end.


My own personal rifle is a 300 Winchester magnum version of the same gun.

quote:

Originally posted by Outdoor Writer:

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:
Actual guided hunts for deer, elk, and antelope in the various western states is a completely different situation where the guide better damn well stay with you from daylight to dark!

Why so?

Because I said so, LOL! Really Tony, is your question trying to stir up shit or what? Let's leave that to CHC, our expert at that!
I've never heard of a guided hunt that is 2x1 or 1x1 where the guide wasn't paid and/or expected to be with the hunter at all times, if nothing else for the safety of the hunter who is in country he's probably never been in and where an accident without immediate help could be a life or death situation.

quote:

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:
Actual guided hunts for deer, elk, and antelope in the various western states is a completely different situation where the guide better damn well stay with you from daylight to dark!

Why so?

That's what I paid them to do. The exception would be something like hunting antelope out of a blind. In addition to what Topgun said, if the landowner wanted to have hunters wander around the property at will, they wouldn't have leased out the hunting rights to the outfitter. I consider a guide to be a local hunting buddy who gets paid but in reality they also act as nannies for the protection of the landowner.

One thing that would help in the rifle selection would be a PRICE RANGE. The first step to shopping (for anything) is to work out how much you want to / can / are willing to spend on it. CHC's business might or might not have the cash to configure what's our collective idea of a dream rifle only to have it sit unused until a client needs it. Hunters shouldn't be taking 400 yard shots with a borrowed rifle so high end glass is a waste. I suggest the rifle be bone stock as it came from the factory for liability reasons. If some idiot shoots themselves you can be sure the lawyer will try to blame the "doctored hair trigger."

I had a Savage 110, in .30-06, one of those $400 package rifle/scope deals that someone won in a VFW drawing. They didn't want the rifle so I bought it for $250. The Savage just ended up taking up space and I was never going to use it so I tried to sell it. No takers at $250, it seemed like just about everybody already had something like it in their safe so I let the Savage go for $175. A little careful shopping might turn up a deal like that. It was a butt-ugly rifle but would be perfectly suitable for this purpose.

What about a backup for your backup? If the shots are short range and out of a blind a .30-30 lever action might be fun for some clients. There are literally millions of these rusting away in safes and closets. Just a thought, for what it's worth.

quote:

Because I said so, LOL! Really Tony, is your question trying to stir up shit or what? Let's leave that to CHC, our expert at that!
I've never heard of a guided hunt that is 2x1 or 1x1 where the guide wasn't paid and/or expected to be with the hunter at all times, if nothing else for the safety of the hunter who is in country he's probably never been in and where an accident without immediate help could be a life or death situation.

No, it was a serious question. You made a blanket proclamation, so I was curious what you're reasoning for such is. Obviously, I could have agreed with you, but then we would both be wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by Venandi:

That's what I paid them to do. The exception would be something like hunting antelope out of a blind. In addition to what Topgun said, if the landowner wanted to have hunters wander around the property at will, they wouldn't have leased out the hunting rights to the outfitter. I consider a guide to be a local hunting buddy who gets paid but in reality they also act as nannies for the protection of the landowner.

There are thousands of outfitted/guided hunts in the western states done annually that are conducted on public land, i.e. state trust, national forest or BLM.

Okay let me address the various comments that have been made.

Mr. Fischer, the gun/scope combo, IF I select one is not going to be a "Dedicated" gun for "Client Use" only. It will be a rifle/scope combo that Lora and I can use if we wish.

From experience, if a client does not have their own gun to use for whatever reason, they have few problems using another persons rifle/scope combo, especially if they can shoot 5 to 10 rounds off the bench before the hunt.

I do Thank You for your comments.

Topgun as for your comments, I get as many customers as I want, and regardless of your beliefs, I have repeat customers. Aside from that, because of your comments made toward me on various issues, I Would Not Book You For A Hunt Even If You Were Willing To Pay 4 Times The Price!!!!!!!!

Vevandi, you are correct with your commernts, Thank You. Pigs or deer, the shots range from 80-85 yards to 210 yards. I simply don't trust Lora's .257 Robert's on hogs past 100 yards. I just do not think there is enough bullet weight and energy, does are a different story.

My preference in rifles runs along the lines of Elmer Keith's and many hunters aren't really in to shooting .375 H&H's!

Outdoor Writer, Thanks for trying to add some reason to the discussion.

quote:

There are thousands of outfitted/guided hunts in the western states done annually that are conducted on public land, i.e. state trust, national forest or BLM.

By gosh,I didn't know that. Ya learn somethin' new every day!

The client and guide can make whatever arrangements they wish but I thought it was generally understood that there were "guided" and "semi-guided" hunts.

I guessed guided means somebody is with you and semi-guided means the outfitter provides transportation, equipment, a map and helps with game recovery. Otherwise you're on your own to find game. Private land or public. The prices seem to reflect this, the semi-guided option the cheaper one. At least to me, "guided" would mean fully guided because a callout is used to denote semi-guided.

But what do I know?