quote:

Originally posted by sbhooper:
Just get the kid a .308 or 30-06 and shoot some of the new low-recoil loads until he is comfortable with the gun and then go to full loads. All reports indicate the loads work real well and you have more bullet weight than a .243.

Thats what I did, my boy is small for his age. So he started off with a 308 150 grain loaded with 23 grains SR4759 the Speer manual shows the speed at 1900 fps. So much fun for him to shoot it kept us in the reloading room a lot. The 006 at the same.;

The .308 or 7-08 are excellent choices. Almost any 20 ga shotgun kicks MORE, and, depending on the load, sometimes much MORE, than any of the listed choices and many 12 year olds shoot them at least 25 times in short order given the chance on a skeet range or in a dove field.

While I certaily agree on not subjecting a kid to more recoil than necessary, he is only going to shoot the gun AT GAME once (we hope) per animal for a total of 4 or 5 shots maximum.

Practice with a .22 mostly and then a .308 or 7-08 with low recoil loads. Do get him used to shooting off of sticks. Much ado about nothing, go for the bigger hole.

one thing no one mentioned but everyone was probably thinking was, Use good hearing protection during practice sessions. I bought my wife a REM model 7 youth(7-08) due to her being 4'-11". it fits her well, but I had a simms limbsaver recoil pad installed after cutting the stock so that overall length stayed the same. she shoots it well but the muzzle blast from the 18.5" bbl is more fierce than from my SPS 270 with a 24" bbl. that blast can scare some worse than the recoil. I think the 7-08 would be an excellent choice for you since as somone already mentioned, you don't really outgrow mid calibers. I outgrew them and went MAGNUM for a while but as I advance in years I came back to the middle ground in cartridge choice. Isn't it crazy how the gunmakers put so much time, effort and technology into getting magnums not to kick big folks but don't put that same knowledge into their youth models? also, since noone else mentioned it di you check here,
recoil tables

Given the parameters, my first choice would be a 7x57. But since that isn't on your list, I'll pick what's closest - the 7mm-08.

1) 7-08
2) 260

I wouldn't reccomend less than 6.5mm (.264"). While many kids & women (as well as grown men)shoot the .243 at big game the larger bullets will serve much better, especially as he gets older. I'd personally prefer the 7x57 over the 7mm-08 but the game wont know the difference. If possible let him try several calibers before buying and remember that in Africa you wont be dressing in heavy clothes like hunting here at home!

quote:

Originally posted by 1894mk2:
I would limit the size of animal he shoots and hence go for a 243 or similar.

That's a good way to sour a youngster on hunting for life. Too many confuse miniatures (like .243 and 410), that work marginally well in the hands of an expert, with beginner's guns. Watching his perfectly hit animal disappear into the thick brush at dusk will sour him far, far quicker than having to deal with enough recoil to make him have to concentrate a bit. I'd much rather start a kid on a .30-06 with a Limbsaver pad on it than a .243.

My dad started me on a .243 when I was 10. I won't make that mistake with my kids.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Some youngsters are a bit intimidated by the report of a 270, especially in a short youth rifle.

I would suggest the 7-08 first and 260 second of your choices. But for a SA trip I would also throw in a plug for the 7X57. Its mild NA loads are great for learning to shoot and the harder hitting european vbersions readily found in SA are excellent for plains game. 7-08 is a fantastic round as well though with its own perks.

I'm not a big 243 fan for big game despite the previous thread. The 260 offers significant improvement w/ a 140gr bullet & the 120gr work well w/ min. recoil. The 7-08 is also exc. offering only a bit more recoil. The .308 can be snappy in a light rifle unless downloaded. All will work on the small-med. PG of Africa w/ good bullets & good placement.

I chose the .260 for whitetails for my kids with good results. I'd say that the 7-08 would be just as good or maybe a litte better for your application, likely with 140 grain bullets. I might suggest that you flip a coin.

I have a 9 year old nephew and a 14 year old nephew they can shoot a 308 fine. I like a 308 lots of choices of bullets and load up a a few with 125grn speer and a charge of 36grn of R-7 and get them started, before you know it he will be devouring rounds. The step up to a 165 and about 46 grns of 748 for a good hunting load. By that time he will not know the difference.

505ED

I'd say go with the 7mm-08 or the 270. I'm assuming you'll get him a "youth" rifle, so when he get's older you'll either need to restock the rifle or he can just bump up to a bigger caliber/rifle all together.

On a side note, if your son decides he doesn't want to go, I can fill in for him. I'd be more than happy to shoot some plainsgame for you.

Started my stepson out with a 30-06 when he has 10 yrs. old. He had never fired a gun before. After he fired a couple rounds and discovered it wasn't going to hurt him, he started firing as fast as he could cycle the action. We've never looked back. He's 12 now and will shoot most anything. He did turn down Mike's .500 nitro about a month ago but that's the only rifle he has avoided so far.

With that said, starting out with a .270 or above is OK for most 12 year olds IMO.

270 Win with Remington low velocity low recoil ammo.

Just a couple of thoughts well, thoughts, followed by opinions.
260, 708, 308.

To start with get a gun that fits him well so the shooter will be in the correct position and and the recoil will be in the proper direction.

Get him safety glasses, GOOD ear plugs and make sure he installs the ear plugs correctly and ALWAYS wears both glasses and plugs on the range.

You did not mention reloading, but I am going to assume you do, or at least have access to reloading equipment (reloading can provide quality time with your son in preparation of the hunt also).

Start by shooting cast boolits with low doses of pistol powder if you can get them. A hundred pieces of brass a a hundred boolits and a hundred times he shoots the gun with little recoil and he gets comfortable and he also learns to handle the gun well. Mix in some plain plinking at clay targets at 25, 50, 100 yards or more (depending on whether your range allows it and the accuracy of your loading) . I guarantee the breaking targets will do wonders for his shooting and teaching him to ignore noise and recoil. Also breaks the bullseye mentality that can form from shooting only paper targets, and the feedback from the breaking clays does some good for his development.

Then or in place of the above:

Use the Seafire method to develop low recoiling loads, with light for caliber bullets and Blue Dot powder (130 grains in the 30 cal etc).

Shoot a hundred of these still on that original brass and again mix in fun reactive target shooting with the paper punching, some of this can/should be from "shooting positions" rather from the bench.

Load up or buy good hunting ammo and go forth and watch him prove to himself that he is ready and able to take game.

Smile broadly at his accomplishment and the time you have spent together developing his shooting and your bonds.

Or just turn him loose to blast away, show your disappointment in his failure and go home mad.

Unfortunately some version of the last option is what I see at the range ALL TOO OFTEN!!!!


Stepping down from soapbox.

All my kids and grandkids used a .222 Rem with 60 gr. Hornady bullets to shoot their first 3 or 4 deer, with complete success.

Then when they are comfortable with a rifle I would suggest a 7x57, .270 or .308 as the ideal deer rifle.