This goes on in Wyoming to, I think as a felon you can still hunt with a bow and maybe a black powder. This is becoming an ongoing arguement here as most hunters feel if they are a felon they give up this privelage. The ironic side, you lose your right to own a firearm for committing a felony but some times, in this county and the neighboring one, posesssion of Meth they get a slap on the hand.


Montana felons, parolees banned from guns still receive hunting tags
By MATT GOURAS
Associated Press writerr Sunday, January 29, 2006



HELENA, Mont. -- Hundreds of felons on parole or probation who are barred from having guns are getting hunting licenses in Montana with no questions asked, an Associated Press investigation has found.

Montana may not be alone. While nearly all states ban felons from possessing guns, only a handful have specific laws prohibiting them from receiving hunting permits, and even fewer have any means of checking to see if applicants are banned from hunting or carrying a firearm.

"Our license dealers have no way of checking," said Lt. Rich Mann, with the enforcement program for the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife. "If someone wants to play with the system and beat you at it, they will."

The AP examination of Montana hunting and corrections records indicates at least 660 felons on parole or probation received tags in the past year that would allow them to hunt with rifles or shotguns.
The licenses don't specifically require the use of firearms, and state officials note that many of the hunters could legally be using other weapons, such as bows. Several of those contacted by the AP said they hunted legally with bows while on probation.

The findings are based on a comparison of unique first, middle and last names, along with other identifiable information, that appeared in both databases. Comparisons by birth dates and Social Security numbers, which would prove more conclusive, were not possible because of restrictions on the release of such information. The AP threw out 160 names because they were either too common or appeared to be duplicated in the hunting database.

A state probation official said the findings likely would prompt the state to consider its own similar records search to see if parolees are violating terms of their release and crack down on those who are.

"Obviously that's a big concern, and it makes me want to look into each of these cases," said Ron Alsbury, Montana probation and parole bureau chief.

Alsbury said state probation officers always warn those with felony convictions who are being paroled or put on probation that they are forbidden to handle guns. Most, however, are not restricted from using other weapons to hunt.

Jason Beaudoin of Frenchtown, who is on probation for a 2002 conviction for assault with a deadly weapon, got a series of hunting tags last year, but said he used only a bow and arrow when he to took to the field.

"I know I can't own a firearm or be in possession of one. They made that very clear ... and I agree with the policy," Beaudoin said. But probation officials also made it clear the restriction didn't extend to the use of bows, he said.

"There are plenty of ways people can hunt even though they are barred from using conventional weapons," added Gary S. Marbut, president of the Montana Shooting Sports Association. "My guess is that there are a lot of them that are being perfectly decent citizens."

The problem is, no one knows for certain.

Some states, including Montana, check for past hunting violations as a routine part of a hunting license application, but don't run spot checks to see if convicted felons are among those applying for licenses or if they are planning to use firearms.

"The result in Idaho is that you could theoretically be a convicted cannibal and still have a hunting license," said Ed Mitchell, a spokesman for the Idaho Department of Fish and Game in Boise. "But if you are a convicted cannibal, you cannot legally own a bent BB gun in the state of Idaho."

In North Dakota, officials even check to make sure hunters aren't delinquent on their child support, and deny permits to those who are. But they can't check for felonies.

Colorado, like most states, relies on its state law banning felons from possessing guns to discourage them from applying for hunting licenses.

"In other words, they can buy the hunting license but they cannot legally be out in the field hunting" with a firearm, said Bob Thompson, assistant chief of law enforcement for the Colorado Division of Wildlife.

He said that every year state game wardens find someone with a felony conviction hunting with a firearm and a legally obtained hunting license. Florida officials said they've even had a game officer killed by a felon who was hunting with a gun.

Many state authorities say it simply would be too difficult to check if felons are getting hunting tags.

"We have no way of knowing if they were a convicted felon, or whether they were telling the truth if they said they weren't one," said Elaine Makatura, a spokeswoman for the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection.

The AP analyzed information from 268,254 Montana resident hunting license holders from the past year and 8,732 people under the supervision of the Department of Corrections. Matches were narrowed down to those holding tags allowing guns to be used.

The AP review found that roughly 8 percent of those on parole or probation with the state had obtained such licenses in the past year.

Some examples:

-- A Stevensville man on probation for shooting a man in the neck during an argument holds deer, elk, migratory bird, upland bird and antelope tags.

-- A Butte man, on probation for pointing a rifle at a woman, has a deer tag.

Efforts to reach them by phone were unsuccessful. Many hunters with felony convictions had no listed phone numbers, while others did not return telephone calls seeking comment.

In some rare cases the state even automatically gave hunting licenses to felons.

One convicted felon contacted by the AP, Larry Pettijohn, wasn't aware he held a bird hunting license. The state gave him the license for free because he qualified for it as a senior citizen who had purchased a state conservation license, the base permit for both hunters and anglers.

"All I ever do is fish," said Pettijohn of Missoula, on parole for felony drunken driving and being a persistent felon. "I don't have a gun. Not allowed to."

One case made national news late last year when one of the hunters with a prized tag for Montana's limited and controversial bison hunt turned out to be on parole or probation for a felony. He gave up his hunting tags before the season started.

Montana has looser gun laws for felons than some other states. Some states have lifetime gun bans for felons. Others require felons to petition a judge or the governor for restoration of gun rights. In Montana, gun rights are automatically restored to most felons with state convictions once they complete their sentences.

Alsbury said his agency did a spot check of its records about five years ago to see if violators had hunting tags. Officers confiscated some guns.

Alsbury said the AP investigation suggests it may be time for the state to search again.

"With the technology we have now we should be routinely checking that," he said.

On the Net:

In WY, a convicted felon can hunt with a bow or certain black powder firearms. If it has a 209 primer as an ignition source, ATF considers that a firearm so technically they would be in violation.

I believe if you're a felon, you lose ALL rights and privleges, including that to hunt and fish.

JMO.

MG

quote:

"The result in Idaho is that you could theoretically be a convicted cannibal and still have a hunting license,"

For which species and seasons????

hmmm.....I am gettin' a little hungry....where's the trusty Daisy at anyhow?...

Wouldn't "SSS" of a wolf be considered a felony???

Just wondering.......

Even if it use a 209 primer it is not a firearm one can mail order any muzzle loader that use a 209 with out going thru a ffl holder.

The exception to this would be if it was built on a FFL restricted action.

MG,
You are a hard ass! How about the privilege of driving?

You know, I have never thought about it really. On one hand, hunting tags, permits, Land, etc is getting more scarce, why would I want a felon to get a tag or permit that I have been putting in the lottery for yearsand have not gotten one yet, but, he/she does? is it fair?

OTOH, not all felons are stupid redneck drunks that shoot at their significant other, or a gangbanger in the barrio of L.A. Trying to say sometimes things happen, and you get shankboned trying to do something that you think is right. Tough decision.

I thought it was federal law that felons could not own or posses a firearm unless they received a pardon from the president. Maybe one of the lawyer types could jump in.

I have a different take on this issue. I have absolutely no qualms about denying gun ownership to violent felons; however, I see no reason why a guy convicted of say income tax evasion should be considered a threat. This came to light under the Clinton Administration when he was siccing the IRS on his enemies. And with the federalization of most crimes, I am sure the feds can come up with a law that would make it a felony for a drunk fraternity pledge to piss in an alley.

What is even more scarey is the fact that ex post facto laws have grown to be accepted. Some people who have been conviced of certain misdemeanor crimes are now not allowed to own a gun, and this applies retroactively to convictions prior to the enacting of this law!

During the Clinton Adminstration I read where he considered simple misdemeanor DUI to be a crime of violence. There is no doubt that he was motivated by back door gun control. Because the precedent had been established that new legislation is applicable to old convictions, I could connect the concepts of his trying to deny Second Amendment rights to those convicted of misdemeanor DUI. From there it's just a short hop to denying Second Amendment rights to any misdemeanor conviction. Hence, a guy who was told to plead guilty to a college prank of stealing the five dollar mascot of a rival fraternity to avoid a costly trial would therefore be denied the right to shoot sporting clays.

I am cautious of causing our numbers to dwindle due to some nebulous public safety argument. I would want to be persuaded by a convincing argument that it is necessary to deny the Second Amendment to anyone. For violent felons, sure, that's a no-brainer! But to deny gun rights due to a misdemeanor conviction that occurred when one was a kid, well I ain't too comfortable with that.


Good evening,

Tom

I thought it was a federal law that felons could not own or posses a firearm unless they received a pardon from the president. Maybe one of the laywer types could jump in to this post.

Here is the lowdown on felons with firearms (read close P-dog, a 290 primer is considered a firearm by ATF):



TITLE 27--ALCOHOL, TOBACCO PRODUCTS AND FIREARMS

CHAPTER II--BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS, AND EXPLOSIVES,
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

PART 478--COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION--Table of Contents

Subpart C--Administrative and Miscellaneous Provisions

Sec. 478.32 Prohibited shipment, transportation, possession, or receipt of firearms and ammunition by certain persons.

(a) No person may ship or transport any firearm or ammunition in
interstate or foreign commerce, or receive any firearm or ammunitionwhich has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce,
or possess any firearm or ammunition in or affecting commerce, who:
(1) Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by
imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year,
(2) Is a fugitive from justice,
(3) Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance
(as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act, 21 U.S.C.
802),
(4) Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed
to a mental institution,
(5) Being an alien--
(i) Is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or
(ii) Except as provided in paragraph (f) of this section, is a
nonimmigrant alien: Provided, That the provisions of this paragraph
(a)(5)(ii) do not apply to any nonimmigrant alien if that alien is-
(A) Admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting
purposes or is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully
issued in the United States;
(B) An official representative of a foreign government who is either
accredited to the United States Government or the Government's mission
to an international organization having its headquarters in the United
States or is en route to or from another country to which that alien is
accredited. This exception only applies if the firearm or ammunition is
shipped, transported, possessed, or received in the representative's
official capacity;
(C) An official of a foreign government or a distinguished foreign
visitor who has been so designated by the Department of State. This
exception only applies if the firearm or ammunition is shipped,
transported, possessed, or received in the official's or visitor's
official capacity, except if the visitor is a private individual who
does not have an official capacity; or
(D) A foreign law enforcement officer of a friendly foreign
government entering the United States on official law enforcement
business,
(6) Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable
conditions,
(7) Having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced
citizenship,
(8) Is subject to a court order that--

[[Page 117]]

(i) Was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual
notice, and at which such person had an opportunity to participate;
(ii) Restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening
an intimate partner of such person or child of such intimate partner or
person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate
partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child; and
(iii)(A) Includes a finding that such person represents a credible
threat to the physical safety of such intimate partner or child; or
(B) By its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or
threatened use of physical force against such intimate partner or child
that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury, or
(9) Has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
(b) No person who is under indictment for a crime punishable by
imprisonment for a term exceeding one year may ship or transport any
firearm or ammunition in interstate or foreign commerce or receive any
firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in
interstate or foreign commerce.
(c) Any individual, who to that individual's knowledge and while
being employed by any person described in paragraph (a) of this section,
may not in the course of such employment receive, possess, or transport
any firearm or ammunition in commerce or affecting commerce or receive
any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in
interstate or foreign commerce.
(d) No person may sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or
ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe
that such person:
(1) Is under indictment for, or has been convicted in any court of,
a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year,
(2) Is a fugitive from justice,
(3) Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance
(as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act, 21 U.S.C.
802),
(4) Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed
to a mental institution,
(5) Being an alien--
(i) Is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or
(ii) Except as provided in paragraph (f) of this section, is a
nonimmigrant alien: Provided, That the provisions of this paragraph
(d)(5)(ii) do not apply to any nonimmigrant alien if that alien is-
(A) Admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting
purposes or is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully
issued in the United States;
(B) An official representative of a foreign government who is either
accredited to the United States Government or the Government's mission
to an international organization having its headquarters in the United
States or en route to or from another country to which that alien is
accredited. This exception only applies if the firearm or ammunition is
shipped, transported, possessed, or received in the representative's
official capacity;
(C) An official of a foreign government or a distinguished foreign
visitor who has been so designated by the Department of State. This
exception only applies if the firearm or ammunition is shipped,
transported, possessed, or received in the official's or visitor's
official capacity, except if the visitor is a private individual who
does not have an official capacity; or
(D) A foreign law enforcement officer of a friendly foreign
government entering the United States on official law enforcement
business,
(6) Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable
conditions,
(7) Having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced
citizenship,
(8) Is subject to a court order that restrains such person from
harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such person
or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other
conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of
bodily injury to the partner or child: Provided, That the provisions of
this

[[Page 118]]

paragraph shall only apply to a court order that--
(i) Was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual
notice, and at which such person had the opportunity to participate; and
(ii)(A) Includes a finding that such person represents a credible
threat to the physical safety of such intimate partner or child; or
(B) By its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or
threatened use of physical force against such intimate partner or child
that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury, or
(9) Has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
(e) The actual notice required by paragraphs (a)(8)(i) and (d)(8)(i)
of this section is notice expressly and actually given, and brought home
to the party directly, including service of process personally served on
the party and service by mail. Actual notice also includes proof of
facts and circumstances that raise the inference that the party received
notice including, but not limited to, proof that notice was left at the
party's dwelling house or usual place of abode with some person of
suitable age and discretion residing therein; or proof that the party
signed a return receipt for a hearing notice which had been mailed to
the party. It does not include notice published in a newspaper.
(f) Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 922(y)(3), any nonimmigrant alien may
receive a waiver from the prohibition contained in paragraph (a)(5)(ii)
of this section, if the Attorney General approves a petition for the
waiver.

Now for p-dog, the definition of ammunition:
Ammunition. Ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or
propellent powder designed for use in any firearm other than an antique firearm. The term shall not include (a)
any shotgun shot or pellet not designed for use as the single, complete
projectile load for one shotgun hull or casing, nor (b) any unloaded,
non-metallic shotgun hull or casing not having a primer.

Felons not only can't have guns, they cannot possess the parts that could possibly make up a gun or ammunition.

army aviator,

You're right on the money, except that in cases of state crimes a governor can do the same thing.

Now Clinton's brother had a serious cocaine conviction wiped clean when the dirtbag-in-chief pardoned every crook who sent money to his library. In fact, Clinton's brother was selling pardons. Imagine how an otherwise straight-up dude feels who can't shoot sporting clays because of a thirty-year-old misdemeanor conviction, his only crime, but those who were convicted of serious felonies can own handguns because they could afford to bribe Clinton.

The goal of gun control advocates is not public safety but to reduce the number of gun owners any way possible. It's the old wolf-sheep metaphor where the sheep awake to find the wolves among them.

God, I'd be pissed off to see serious drug dealers out shooting semiautomatic pistols and rifles because they had money to bribe Clinton!!! Even Chris Matthews of Hardball, a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat, said Clinton brought the status of our crmininal justice system down to the level of the Philippines where "justice" is rountinely bought and sold.

There is no wonder why Americans have little faith in our CJS. I know I'd be pissed if I were ever convicted of anything while OJ is out golfing because Gil Garcetti wanted to placate a certain faction of LA's population in order to stave off his having to find a real job!


Good evening,

Tom

I have a slightly different take on this. Considering how strapped for funds most state fish & wildlife departments are, if those who may not legally possess firearms and ammunition wish to donate some much needed cash to them, I certainly don't have a problem with it. A citizen knows the risks when he or she commits a crime, it's not like some surprise that has been sprung on them. I agree that there are a lot of "felonies" that do not rate a lifetime ban, but we as voters have the ability and right to petition state legislatures to enact appropriate reforms that can change that while still ensuring that the violent, the predators, the drug dealers, and the terrorists can never have legal access to arms.

Actually, felons CAN posess firearms!

Felons can have guns if they have their rights restored under applicable state law....

They can even get concealed carry permits in most states- again, provide the right has been restored under applicable state law.

If a person is convicted under federal law, then they must have rights restored under applicable federal laws....

i.e. if someone is convicted of wrongfully shooting a species protected under the ESA...that would be a felony where a person would need to get their rights restored under federal law.

Where's the "SSS" crowd now???

I'm not arguing the fact that a serious criminal should be denied the right to carry firearms.

I fail to see why this should carry over to hunting licenses. There are many "non firearm" methods of hunting: bow, cross bow, black powder, black powder "sharps" type rifles.

Felons get lots of licenses. Are we saying that felons should not get marriage licenses, car licenses, medical licenses, fishing licenses, business licenses, ham radio licenses, etc, etc, etc.

Are we going to take away their library privileges, too?

There is some logic to the firearm restriction. I have no use for the rest of the witch-hunt. JMO, Dutch.

Tom, you are right on! Also, actually in many states, in cases of a state conviction, a felon can petition the court, and a judge can restore their rights. There is supposed to be a way for felons to restore their rights thru the Federal system as well, however, the congress critters have seen fit to defund this program, so while it is on the books, there is no money for this purpose!

I'm sorry guys, but being a convicted felon should not keep someone from being able to bow hunt. First off, hunting is not a formal right, it is merely a pastime that we consider a privledge. Like Mudstud said, does that mean that he shouldn't be able to drive? Does that mean that he doesn't have the right to work and provide a living for himself? Does that mean that he shouldn't be able to buy land? After all, in some states he wouldn't have to buy a license if he hunted on his own land. I think this is an issue that deserves "lots and lots" of thought before a decision is made by lawmakers. Somewhere there has to be a line between "rights" and "privledges".

On a side note, consider this. I have an uncle that is a convicted felon for burglary. He served his time and was released on parole 25 years ago. His parole ran out 20 years ago. So here's a guy that lost his rights. No guns, no voting,da-da-da-da-da. Anyway, about 10 years ago he decided to stop paying taxes. His reasoning. "NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION"!.Think about it for a second,,,,,,,the mans got a point here. He can't vote, so therefore "he" can't be represented. For the last four years, the IRS has been calling him seeking payment. He gives them that excuse and the grunt that's on the phone doesn't know which way to go with it. The grunt say's that he will go to his manager and will be in touch later. Then he won't hear anything from them for a few months. Then another grunt will call and succomb to the confusion of the situation. This has been going on for four years. Now you and I know that sooner or later he will go to jail for tax evasion. But still, the convicted felon has a point.

Jason,
Yup, the man has a point!

Some one posted not long ago, where a guy with a convict record, was allowed to use a firearm for hunting only in Quebec... He shot and killed a 25 yr old female police officer with a 338 Mag....
Which the press tried to pass off as an "elephant gun, that could kill an elephant a mile away".... don't you love liberal reporters and newspapers...

I really think that there can not be one size fits all kind of law....But felons, hunting with a bow I don't see a problem with... especially somewhere like Montana...

But with States like No Dakota denying hunting licenses on those that are even late in Child Support Payments.... or someone considered a felon if he even plea bargained on a domestic dispute with his wife..... This is getting reduced to the ridiculous....It isn't that hard to be considered an "enemy of the state" ( felon) in this country anymore....

And as pointed above....Clintoon made a mockery of the entire Justice System.... as long as you can afford to part of the politically elite in our society.......

Madgoat saying felons can not process ammo or primers ect is differant from saying they are firearms.

That is way they say firearms or ammunition.

When felonys were simple and there was only a few that on could lose your rights over this made sense.

Now one can lose your rights over many things that years ago would not be considered felonys along with some misdomeaners that one can lose your rights over.

One only has to have ones girl freind, boy freind, wife, husband, child or someone living in the same house with you. One of these people gets mad you calls the cops claim that you beat or hit them even if it results in a county or civil fine. Your shit out of luck no more guns for you.

A lot of these has been pushed by the anti growd just as a nother means of reducing fire arm ownership. Less people who owns guns means less voters to stop them.

I just wonder if any of these laws will be challenged once we have a conservative leaning supreme court seated-these retroactive laws like the dom-abuse where someone pled guilty to a misdeamenor 20-30yrs ago then yrs later loses the right to protect themselves and thier familys seems like a travest of justice to me.