Looking for some experienced 8mm and 338 cal guys here, been wanting to go to a larger caliber for some time now, but I'm looking for it to be a longer range elk gun mostly, but also want it to be capable of the Alaskan grizzly's also. I have seen the 325 WSM cases and liked what I saw but I'm not crazy about the browning platform is anyone else like say Remington going to chamber for them? Also anyone heard if Remington is going to chamber the 338 RUM in the Sendero II? If the Lapua is the choice what rifle would be the best to investigate?

The .338RUM is sometimes called "a poor man's .338 Lapua." That should tell you the whole story. However, the .338 Lapua was designed as a military or sniper cartridge, and most are much heavier than any .338RUM.

You have mentioned Alaska and grizzly bears, so I should tell you that the .338WM with Federal premium ammo and bullets not lighter than 250 grains is a favorite up here. The .338WM is as popular as the .30-06 and the .300WM in Alaska.

The .325WSM is too new on this side of the pond, so if you happen to need ammo for it, you won't find any in the stores.

If would look into the .338WM, or even a .375 H&H, but the .338 is plenty.

The 325 really does not have a dog in this fight. I would look at a plain old 338win before a 325wsm. You will have a lot more bullets to choose from and more horse power from the 338. The 338 ultra and lapua will get the job done to. As for as a 338 ultra in a Sendero you are going to have to look for a used one as they are not chambering them in it at least this years they are not.

Forget the 325 WSM. Good cartridge but I think you want a cartridge with a 225g-250g option.

The two 338s you mentioned are fine but why not the 338 WM? Great cartdridge and great selection of bullets and factory ammo.

The 325 will probally disapear in 5 years or less along with the 338 ultra mag.There are alot of rifles chambered for the wsm,but with the Rick Jamison lawsuit I bet alot of companies drop them.The 338 ultra mag is down to one production rifle.If you want to ga all the way buy a 338-378 Weatherby accumark.If you want better buy a cheap 30-378 weatherby and put a 30" barrel on it then youll get 3300-3400 fps with a 350 gr bullet.I get 3150 fps with 250 ge noslers out of my 338-378 accumark with a 16" barrel.The weatherby brass is way stronger than the 338 ultra mag brass and more uniform.The 325 wsm is an 8 mm undercover because americans inb general dont like the 8mm.If you trust them the 300 gr Serria Matckj kings can be easliy pushed 3000 fps out of a 30"338-378.You should go on longrangehunting.com they do alot more long range hunting on there than anyone I know.If your just going to shoot large game 300 yards or less which I have shot deer with it to 425 yards the 338 win mag is just fine.In factory loads the heavy mag loads equal the 338 ultra mag.The lapula is very hard to find brass for and very expensive.There is a wildcat that remington should have brought out the 338-300 ultra mag.Remington shortened the 338 ultra mag to fit the 700 action .Its about 200 fpos faster than the factory loaded 338 ultra mag and brass is still cheap.I have both 338 win mags and two 338-378s.I find myself except for deer which i use the 338 win mag still totally using the 338-378 for 95% of my big game hunting.My cousin who bench rest shoots alot shot a .25 inch group with my rifle.Its light and accurate and with a 5.5x16 or better a 6.5X20 POWER scope makes the finest long range rifle made.I buy 416 weatherby brass cheap and neck it down.I have loaded brass 17 times.Go to realguns.com to read awesome articles about the 338-378 weatherby.He shot awesome groups also.

My hunting buddy and I have .338 RUMs in 700 BDLs. We took four nice black bears (including a stocky boar squaring 7'4") with the rifles last spring in British Columbia. In every case, the bear dropped in their tracks. The power of these rifles is remarkable. The rifles are also inherently very accurate and light to carry. On the down side, recoil at the bench is punishing in these light rifles. I consider the recoil from my .338 RUM in the light model 700 to be more punishing than my .458 Lott RSM. In the field shooting at game - "what recoil?". With all that said, the .338 RUM is a very accurate round with great reach and devastating knockdown. Our bear guides were in awe. I've hunted black bear before with a 45-70 and a .376 Steyr. Those bear ran a ways. Not with the .338 RUM.

I agree, the .325wsm is not in the catagroy, I'ld rather go plain jane .338wm. Also, don't overlook the .340wby or .330 Dakota, very close to the RUM & Lapua.

Just thought I would throw my two cents in for what it is worth. I have a 338 RUM in a stainless Remington 700 with a custom built thumb-hole stock. I have taken 2 Bull Elk in the last 2 years (0ne at 150 yards and the other at over 400 yards), neither elk knew what hit them. The Bull I shot at 400+ yards was quartered to me and I hit him just in front of the shoulder and found the bullet lodged under the skin in the hind quarter, ( the bullet weighed 230 grains). I have taken alot of elk with 300 win mags and none of them have piled up like the last 2. An absolutely defastating cartridge. I handload 250 gr nosler partitions with RL powder at 2960 FPS. This gun shoots a 3/4" 3 shot group at 100 yards and a 3 inch group at 500 yards off a bench. needless to say I am hooked on this caliber and would highly recommend it to anyone. The recoil will definitly get your attention, so I had a Gentry Muzzlebrake put on it and now my 25 year old daughter can shoot it. This is one of the only brakes that I can honestly say is very shootable with no earplugs while hunting. I can't wait to get to Alaska and try it on a Bear and Moose.

My 2 cents.....I have a .338 RUM in a remington 700 stainless. I'm shooting 210 gr Barnes XLC's
With good shot placement, this gun sucks the life out of what ever you hit. The first animal I killed with it was a Gemsbok on WSM in southern NM. At 325 yds, her nose hit the ground before she could blink!! It way out performs my .338wm. I say this cartridge kicks ass!.............wapiti7

Ok the 325WSM got its but kicked, the 338 it is. Now I have another question about the 338RUM recoil wise. I know some guys here have access to a program that can calculate chamber pressures, when I was much younger and much more ignorant than I am now (some would debate that last one) I loaded for and used a 300 Wby mag. Don't start yelling at me as I would not load "to the hilt" like I did then. But my pet load for it was a 200g SBT sitting ontop of 101g's of H870 how would this compare to a 338RUM shooting 225-250g bullets SAFELY! All assuming of course the rifle that it is chambered in is the Rem 700 XCR weighing in at 7 5/8 lbs.

quote:

Originally posted by wapiti7:
My 2 cents.....I have a .338 RUM in a remington 700 stainless. I'm shooting 210 gr Barnes XLC's
With good shot placement, this gun sucks the life out of what ever you hit. The first animal I killed with it was a Gemsbok on WSM in southern NM. At 325 yds, her nose hit the ground before she could blink!! It way out performs my .338wm. I say this cartridge kicks ass!.............wapiti7

No doubt about it. The .338RUM, as well as any of the super .338's, is incredibly powerful. A bullet such as the 275-grain A-Frame (or heavier) would make the .338RUM devastating on any game that walks this planet. However, since the power is felt at both ends, cartridges such as the "super .338's" are best for those who can tolerate the added recoil.

Woodleigh makes some 300 grainers, and so Kodiak Bullets.

Bearcat,
I load my 338 RUM with 87 grains of RL22 with Fed Primers with 250 gr Nosler Partions. My friend shoots a 300 wthby mag with 200 gr nosler partions. After shooting both the 338 rum without the brake definitely has more recoil but under hunting conditions it is totally managable. Make sure you have plenty of eye relief on your scope though as it will notch you. I hunt with the Gentry Brake on mine and love it. I am 5' 11'' and weigh 240 pounds so I can soak up some recoil but my daughter is 5'5" tall and weighs 130 lbs and can shoot it without too much discomfort. The load I mentioned is not max but close. I can't say enough about this cartridge as you may have guessed. It shoots very flat out to 600 yards and hits like a ton of bricks.

bearcat- IMO the 325 WSM is not even in the same gym as the other big 33's you mentioned so I would quickly scratch that one.

I would scratch the Lapua, IMO not much gain over the 340 and the RUM and more gain in terms of PIA. Tougher to get components and they are more expensive.

I would also scratch the Sendero idea, I love the rig but there is no way I want any part of carrying it on a elk hunt. At least not the way that I hunt elk.

That narrows it down to 338 RUM and the 340.If I was buying factory I would go with the RUM. If I were building it I would go with a 700 or 70 action. A 4.5 weight Schneider but to 25" and put in in a good African Walnut stock (fiberglass). The 340 way is the way I've gone and am on my 4th tube. I love the rig for long or short range anything. Plus all of the tubes have been very big time accurate.

Oh an one last thing it would be magnaported, but no way would I put a brake on it!

Good luck to ya.

Mark D

Bearcat i am planning on finding a 700 BDL in 338 ultra , i'll put it into my HS Presision varmint stock and top it with a Leupold 4.5X14

Just ordered this morning a Rem 700 XCR in 338RUM should be here end of next week, will pick up some dies, brass and bullets this week and we'll see how bad she rattles teeth. If its too bad anyone have a suggestion on breaks or magnaporting? Who does magnaporting.

bearcat-slam dunk I would magnaport it, they are out of Michigan. It will not do much for the recoil but it does remove pretty much all of the mzl jump. It will be abuot $140 I would guess and IMO it is big time worth it.

Personally I would never have anything to do with mzl brakes.

Porting IME is the way to go!

Mark D

good choice by the way, get some 210 TX bullets and 215 primers and you're ready to rock!

I have a BDL with a brake on it, cuts recoil down considerably. I think most of the myth about heavy recoil from a RUM is from inexperienced shooters. Sure, its gonna knock you around a bit if you try and shoot it free recoil from the bench, but its nothing compared to what you hear around the range.....

(That being said-- watch out for those hot 275 gr. loads----ouch!)

IV

How about putting a mercury recoil epressor in the stock would these work well for the 338 ultra?

I ment sepressor they have a 16 0z model for the heavy recoil rifles and i have been told the smaller model has cut down the recoil of a 30/06 to seem like a 243. I have yet to try one myself but my friend put one in a 30/06 handi rifle and he swears by them He did so because he has a bad neck and he can now shoot the 06 with no problem

Bearcat,

Good for you.

Nice cartridge spacing as that is a nice move up the "scale" from your 270 Win. When you see and HEAR the K-THUD on the business end, it will warm your heart.

Good Luck!

Mark: I will look into the magnaport deal, but first I want to shoot it to see if the recoil is really all that bad. Like I said before, I used to shoot a fully "overloaded" 300Wby Mag and it didn't kick all that bad. Oh off the bench it would get your attention but that was all, mostly shooting from the prone where it was most noticable.

IDVandal: I guess I'll have to "watch out" cause I went and bought some brass, reloading dies, a couple lbs of powder along with 1 box of 225g Nosler Accubonds and 1 box of 300g SMK's

Tannoose: I looked up the mercury suppressors but didn't see anything in particular to rifles most of it was for shotguns do you have a website thats shows them? Thanks

I finally settled on 225 TSX in front of 98.5 grns H1000-- groups real well, I tried Retumbo but didn't group as well. I killed an elk and a little whitetail buck with it last fall. Funny thing was, I meant to take my .270 out the day I killed the whitetail but picked up the wrong gun case on the way out the door. Ended up with a "Texas heart shot", bullet went from the ass end through the front right shoulder and out......talk about penetration......

IV

Nice cartridge spacing as that is a nice move up the "scale" from your 270 Win. When you see and HEAR the K-THUD on the business end, it will warm your heart.

Thanks EKM! The old 270 Win is getting a facelift, the throat on the old girl (1949 Win Mod 70) was getting a little worn. So its getting set back and rechambered to 270AI, should be closing in on 7mm Mag territory. So I didn't see much point in a 30Cal, too close to the 270AI but the 338 RUM looked real good, I think those two cases should cover anything I'll every run into.

My 338-378s with the brake kick less than a 270 to me.My hunting buddy age 11 at the time shot 2 caribou at 450 yards with one shot .I told him it kicked less than his 20 ga which it does.The 338 rum is good but I would get 500 pcs of brass.Remington is famous for quit making brass when they feel like it.The 300-338 ultra mag is even better.I keep thinking about a sendero in that caliber but already have my 338-378s which are even better.

bearcat-the magnaporting is not about the recoil, what it is about is the mzl jump.

I tend to hold a rifle quite loosely so it does come back at my forhead quite often if I don't watch it.

Most of the RUM's have tubes that are a bit light of mzl weight for my liking. And the RUM's are quick of recoil. Note I did not say that they have nasty recoil they just come back quickly.

So things can tend to get a bit jumpy for people off the bench. And in the field, it is quite easy to have a run in between your head and the scope if you don't watch it as well.

So I like to have the rounds that are quick of recoil like these and my 340's ported to keep it off my head. I've found it is easier for me to shoot better year round with it that way. I always have focus on hitting the target and not with keeping it off my head.

Lastly I also tend to shoot the rounds a fair bit, most years I will put between 500-1000 thru my 340.

Good luck to you any way you go. You're gonna love the world of the big 33's. One last thing don't be suprised to find scarry good accuracy. For me, the 33's haev always been one of the easiest rounds to make perk.

Mark D

Bearcat, I haven't shot the .338 RUM, but my .338 WM doesn't kick too bad. It's a different kind of recoil. Slow, powerful shove. Not like the fast spike of a maxed out .308 or anything. I just put a decelerator pad on my rifle, and that's it.

mike

All the big 338s are very good.ts just a question of will the be around in 10 years and will the still make brass.You can make 338 rum out of the 300 ultra mag but it would be a bitch.I dont know how long the 338 ultra mag,lapula or 338-378 weatherby will last.I neck down cheap 416 weatherby brass because its about $1 eacvh and i can reload it 17 times.I liked the 338 ultra mag but its an over lap and not as fast as the 338-378.My next 338-378 will have a 30" barrel to get the most from the 338-378.It adds about 300-400 fps over the 26" barrel.Remington put too skinny of barrels on its 338s and ultra mags.They need a medium heavy barrel like Ruger puts on there 338 win mags.The weatherby muzzle break is awesome.The 338-378 with that break on is a very sweet shooting rifle.I have not shot it yet without the brake off.I have heard you could load the 300-338 ultra mag up to a little above 3000 fps with 250 gr bullet.I would ask them on long rangehunting.com they know alot more about long range 338s than folks on here do.I have not tried the 300 gr serria match king they shoot at 3000 fps on game .It shoots about 2800out of my 26" barrel.That bullet has a B.C. of .85 very high but I have only target shot it not at game.I use the nosler partition 250 gr.A 338 Sendero rechambered for that 300-338 edge ultra would be awesome.You not going to go wrong with any of the 338 just hope you have brass in 10 years.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dgr416:
If you want better buy a cheap 30-378 weatherby and put a 30" barrel on it then youll get 3300-3400 fps with a 350 gr bullet.QUOTE]

I must be misreading this. Do they make 350 gr. 30 caliber bullets? If they did you definately wouldn't get 3400ft. sec with them.

quote:

Originally posted by dgr416:
All the big 338s are very good.ts just a question of will the be around in 10 years and will the still make brass.You can make 338 rum out of the 300 ultra mag but it would be a bitch.I dont know how long the 338 ultra mag,lapula or 338-378 weatherby will last.I neck down cheap 416 weatherby brass because its about $1 eacvh and i can reload it 17 times.I liked the 338 ultra mag but its an over lap and not as fast as the 338-378.My next 338-378 will have a 30" barrel to get the most from the 338-378.It adds about 300-400 fps over the 26" barrel.Remington put too skinny of barrels on its 338s and ultra mags.They need a medium heavy barrel like Ruger puts on there 338 win mags.The weatherby muzzle break is awesome.The 338-378 with that break on is a very sweet shooting rifle.I have not shot it yet without the brake off.I have heard you could load the 300-338 ultra mag up to a little above 3000 fps with 250 gr bullet.I would ask them on long rangehunting.com they know alot more about long range 338s than folks on here do.I have not tried the 300 gr serria match king they shoot at 3000 fps on game .It shoots about 2800out of my 26" barrel.That bullet has a B.C. of .85 very high but I have only target shot it not at game.I use the nosler partition 250 gr.A 338 Sendero rechambered for that 300-338 edge ultra would be awesome.You not going to go wrong with any of the 338 just hope you have brass in 10 years.

I imagine that the .338 Lapua is here to stay, since the military around the world use it. Also, it's popular with long range target shooters.

I doubt that the 338 RUM brass suddenly dissapears but if it does not a problem just send the 338RUM to the smith and have it rechambered to 338-300RUM. Either way I don't shoot the large calibers alot a couple hundred rounds of brass would last me a long time.

The XCR Remingtons have the Sims limbsaver recoil pad on them, my 300 Wby was a Sendero and had about a .25" hard rubber pad, if you could call it a pad. The only thing is I think the stock on the XCR's are just a POS plastic stock. I don't think they have a aluminum bedding block in them, someone correct me if I am wrong, I hope I am! I guess I'll find out it should be here last of next week. By the way, for the long range target shooters the 338-300 RUM has about a 3% advantage on the Lapua and the components are alot more reasonable. Of course the RUM has plenty of punch on its own but the wildcatters are going crazy over at longrangehunting.com someone has necked a 408 CT down to a 338 holds close to 150g's of powder! OUCH!