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one of us |
Robin, I have been looking for years for the perfect pattern! I think other folks are as well because there are some new ones around. I have seen a few I liked but not found them when I wanted or they've been the wrong size. My choices are Rockaflage, Sniper (in a grey), Predator (also in a grey). Another good one is NaturalGear, it is more available. I like the greys and light brown/tan. Out here ( I also hunt Oregon and Idaho) to much of the greens and blacks actually seem to make you stand out some. Most of my hunting is of the spot and stalk nature so looking like rocks is a good thing! I'm buying some material in the Rockaflage pattern so I can have something made. Just my thoughts! | |||
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| <Daryl Elder> |
I picked up some camo from Cabelas in their "Outfitter" pattern. According to the people I hunt with it works well to break up your outline, in most environments/terrains. | ||
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Moderator |
Well I don't want to sound like a luddite or anything, but IMHO camo looks a lot better in the catalogs than it does out in the woods. Not to say that it isn't less noticeable than solid orange, but I think it is more useful as a fashion statement than something that works better at concealment than something else. Do I own some camo, heck yes but not because I think it offers any more concealment than other clothing. One item here is that most all camo has green in it, yet fall hunting in the midwest has very little green in the woods, so why is it marketed to deer hunters then? What is far more effective than camo pattern is to realize that most game detect threats by movement rather than coloration, and the wriggling hunter or jerky hunter will be spotted sooner regardless what he is wearing. This is an issue that I have with the camo that has hundreds of leaves sewn to it, all they do is amplify every little movement and that is what gives you away. I would rather have some solid colors in the shading most prevalent to the area. I know, I know, I guess I'm just not a real hunter, at least to the marketing departments... | |||
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| one of us |
I own 4 or 5 diff. patterns use the one that best fits the hunting area, time of year ect. I all so use two diff ones at the same time diff pants and diff jacket really makes you break up in the woods. | |||
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| <hunting1> |
My two cents since I live and hunt here in Az is I like realtree brown. I use natgear, and mossy oak, but I have taken pictures in the desert and in the pines and it blends pretty good! My friend wears predator and it is hard to see. Good hunting and shooting. | ||
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| one of us |
MarkWhite: Finally someone who believes as I do. Camo for rifle season is a fashion statement. Most places you're wearing hunter orange, what good is camo? Deer/elk can detect the slightest movement, but they could care less what camo you're wearing. I feel the same way about these scent locker suits. How do you cover the smell of your breath or the smell of your rifle? ------------------ | |||
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| <BigBores> |
I will wade in and say that lack of motion is more important than what colors your camo is. I still use my good old military issue BDU woodland camo for my deer and elk hunts in AZ and in NM. They have always worked well for me. One year I was almost stepped on by a perimeter bull in a heard that was moving by me. If I hadn't of moved so he saw me and stopped, I would have gotten stepped on. I do always try very hard to find a spot to sit or kneel that breaks up my profile, usually I will back into a small bush and kneel down in it so I can see out. Of course it is the sitting still part that is the most critical. I have used one of the Cabela's "Ghillie" suits for varminting coyotes, but you still have to watch your profile and sit very still. Good hunting. | ||
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| <Vek> |
The mule deer I got this year walked behind and above me maybe 40' away, in plain sight. I didn't move; he (they, doe too) didn't see me. Attire? Solid orange vest over (free) teal fleece (not my choice of color, but free), and green wool pants. I'm thinking don't wear black or white. All other colors, provided there is some color, appear sort of neutral to deer, therefore, no camo needed. That's my theory, anyway. Call me a snob, but in all honesty, I sort of chuckle at guys in camo that aren't bowhunters, for whatever reason. --JV | ||
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| <Paladin> |
Irregular camo helps, but make sure it's washed several times in non-scented soaps or detergents which have no optical brighteners in them (most laundry detergents have optical brighteners because they make colors look more vibrant). Deer and other animals are said to be more sensitive to light in the wavelengths used by optical brighteners, and so when camo has these in it, it appears much brighter than the surroundings, so the wearer stands out as if illuminated, while the rest of the surroundings provide dark contrast. I suppose this would apply to ordinary clothing as well..... | ||
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| Moderator |
Oh boy here I go being the grinch again, just in time for Christmas! Another item I have issues with is this whole UV enhancement stuff. I guess it is just another way to sell the newest gimmick to the public. It started with me a few years ago when I started wearing an orange mesh safety vest for hunting, one that I had gotten from a commercial source, the typical highway worker vest. I like it because it is light and sturdy. Anyway a hunting buddy told me that it was not good because the deer can see the reflective stuff better than we can, and "real" hunting vests don't reflect like that. Of course that did it for me, I wore a different vest that year. After I got home I decided to do some experiments on the UV issue, so I took my camcorder which has this "night shot" feature which is essentially an enhanced Infra Red sensitivity with some IR LED illuminators and I looked at everything under IR. Basically everything looked the same, didn't matter who made the orange or whether or not something was just washed in Tide. I have a hard time thinking that deer see anything differently. Things that reflect like scotchlite DO show up, but other than that nope. I also just leave my outer garments outside unless it is really cold, and usually do so for a day before I start using them, but the times that I don't it doesn't seem to matter that much... | |||
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| one of us |
Mark, I don't know diddly-squat about camo or how deer see UV, but I CAN tell you that your experiment with the cam-corder was on the wrong end of the spectrum. IR is on the red end, just past what we can see (or farther past what we can see), and UV is on beyond us on the blue end. You'd be better off pretending you're a deer and looking at it with your own eyes (and we all know that THAT is not correct, either). Maybe some of the guys that DO know about this stuff can fill you in. | |||
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| one of us |
I think camo is hype and fashion, that has caught the eye of the American hunter, who hasn't hunted extensively. It has made a lot of folks wealthy...I agee that earth colors are good and I wear olive drab mostly..Movement is what animals see more than anything else. Camo works better on people..but then I'd want a Guille suit. Don't want to stir anyone up and that is just my personal opinnion and an answer to the mans question, noone has to abide by it. ------------------ | |||
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| <heavy varmint> |
I'm going to just go ahead and say it, people see blaze orange, animals see movement so why not wear your orange and be still, this will lead to a safer more productive hunt. I spend many hours in the woods every season of the year and have narrowed it down to the thing that gives me away most often when animals are close enough are my eyes and this can be eliminated alot of times by just pulling my ball cap down to my eyebrows, sure I may look stupid but they can't see me anyway  Camo does have its uses though like for Turkey and preditor birds. | ||
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| one of us |
I will go along with the "be still" faction but you all must admit a nicely cut three piece suit of camo with matching ascot does look absolutly smashing when driving a $50,000.00 SUV to and from your place of business......(hell no, I don't take it offroad. I still owe 800 more payments) | |||
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| <Daryl Elder> |
So, I suppose a Ghillie suit is a fashion statement and doesn't work? If the dead could spaek, they may say different. | ||
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Moderator |
I don't wear camo much really, except when bowhunting or hunting waterfowl. May not really need it, but wearing camo and face paint makes me feel better when I am trying to be stealthy. Here's a question for you guys. My favorite camo pattern for elk hunting in what you guys call the "black timber" was "Timber Ghost". I got a set of clothes in this pattern from Cabela's about 6 years ago, and haven't been able to find any lately. Anybody know if its still available somewhere? TIA, Canuck | |||
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| <Don G> |
I have assorted camo that I've bought on sale over the years. For cold weather I usually wear a $5 pair of 1950s era green heavy wool army pants from Belgium or summat. For a coat it's usually my woodland fatigue coat. In warmer weather I wear surplus woodland camo. Holding still or moving slowly is the next most important thing to being upwind. Camo or cover is a distant third. Ghillie suits work very well for people hunting, are not necessary for game IMHO. Don | ||
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| <Daryl Elder> |
Of course a Ghillie suit isn't necessary for the hunting of game. Niether is a rifle, scope, quad, pickup, spotting scope... IMHO, one should use every advantage afforded him. Game already has these advantages; speed for flight, better eyesight, colour that blends with the terrain, etc. We feeble humans must invent these for ourselves in an attempt to play at the level as our quarry. | ||
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| one of us |
Indepedant research by a UK outdoor pursuits college showed I think that deer see the world in a fashion similar to very high speed black and white film ie contrast is all. What this means in reality is provided you keep still, are not silhouetted and have a face veil, you could be wearing a pin stripe suit and deer would see you no more than in any of the latest crappo. Don't become a victim of advertising/fashion wear a sober coloured wool jacket of some description with plain trousers and a face veil and bask in the reflection that you know better. | |||
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one of us |
I consent with 1894 regarding clothing and camo for hunting deer and moose. But for birds it is quite different: they see incredible well. For that hunt you�ll need good camo clothing - or traditional british tweed in proper colours. When the snow has come, I put a white anorak and white trousers on, and go skiing for capercaille and birchcocks (?). Also the skies are painted white and the rifle is put in a white linen scabbard. you can be happy if you come closer than 100 yards. Fritz | |||
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| <Daryl Elder> |
Maybe the game in Europe is more accustomed to seeing it's hunters in 3 piece pin-striped suits than the moose, deer, elk, coyotes, wolves, caribou and bears that we have here? I walked up on a six point elk and his harem of 5 cows this fall and although they could see me and knew something was there, they did not spook and flee. I can only attribute this behavior to the camo I was wearing. As well, the goat I harvested this fall didn't spook either. I remain convinced that proper camo is essential to stalking game-- here, at any rate. | ||
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one of us |
I like any of the WWII SS patterns, especialy the Autumn ones reversible to Winter. The German camo patterns only repeated every 7 meters too lessen a repetitious appearence. There are several reproductions out there now days. Check the Gun shows.  ------------------ | |||
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| one of us |
I like my Predator camo from Marks Sweat shop as well as ASAT, the fall brown. But most of my affection for both stems from the fact that I like the multiple pockets and how it all fits me and carries my gear. I did notice that my friends who wear the Predator and ASAT seem to blend in quite well and at longer distances can be hard to find at times. The "designer" camo does seem to "blob out" at longer distances, appearing to me as just a grey or browm blob. Whereas the ASAT or predator is downright tough to find , especially in broken shade/sunlight. As far as what deer and elk see and don't see.......I do feel that they DO see hunters Orange somehow easier than camo. It surely appears that I can sneak up on game easier with cammo on versus hunters orange. So this year I wore my cammo with a filson Orange vest. Who knows what cammo and orange together does? But I did shoot a decent bull and an equally nice 10 pt whitetail!
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one of us |
quote: I may be wrong, but isn't the Swiss Alpenflage pattern pretty similar to the old German ones? RSY | |||
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| <ovis> |
So many patterns, so little time to worry about the details. Ghillie suits and make sure the shiny face is covered. Whatever makes the total experience for you. | ||
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| one of us |
I read an article a while back in one of the outdoor magazines (can't recall which), that compared the effectiveness of camo patterns. Seems to me they involved some military folk as well. The results were, that plain old woodland camo was as effective as anything in breaking up outline. The guys above that sited movement as being more important are right, I have had deer come within a few feet of me standing in the open, simply because I did not move. That said, I do own a lot of camo clothing, but mostly because hunting clothes tend to vastly more comfortable than anything else. | |||
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| one of us |
The tried and true red or green wool plaid with the black lines to break up your shape is as good as anything... I do believe that white is a dead give a way in that it signals danger much the same as a flashing whitetail..and the shine off a face is not always good if the light is in the deers favor, thats why many PH have beards... I have a couple of camo items, a Army field jacket that someone gave me and a sweater that I got for Xmas by some well intending person and I wear them, but I'm not under the assumption that I'm hidden from a wild animal... Actually there is nothing on this earth that is as suspecious as a walking, talking, smoking tree and when you stop the dogs piss on you..... ------------------ | |||
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| one of us |
You got it RSY, & it defeats infrared!  (for those of you who might need that info) ------------------ [This message has been edited by Bear Claw (edited 11-30-2001).] | |||
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| <EricH> |
When I was in Wyoming after Antelope I built a ghille suite with the intention to decoy. My dad ran the decoy and I move forward to get a shot(Bowhunting). The first attempt was foiled because I dove into one of those little cactus that only grow about 3-6 inches out of the ground(OUCH!!!, that sucked!) I had one last chance and I had gully between us and the Antelope which was perfect. My dad set up the decoy and I started after the Antelope. When he wasn't looking in my direction I would run closer, I got to about 200 yards and started to crawl, I made to about within 30 yards to the edge of the gully. By this time the Antelope had seen the decoy's and was moving to them. He disappeared into the gully on a track that would take him just to my right about 20 yards away. I set up to make the shot and waited......waited.......still waiting....where the hell did he go. I look behind me and there he stands about 30 yards looking at the decoy's. DAMN!! I tried set up again to make the shot but he caught me moving and moved off. He didn't split right away, he stood there and snorted at me. Some friends tried it without a ghille suit couldn't get anywhere near one. That's what convinced me that a ghille suite is probably the best camo you could get. I didn't have any other chances to try it I was running short on time, but I would love to try it again. Just my 2 cents. [This message has been edited by EricH (edited 11-30-2001).] | ||
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| one of us |
Ray, roflmao!!!!!!!!! That's why you want to wear waterproof boots. | |||
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| <Paladin> |
Bought a net fluffy camo-suit years ago after seeing a demo of a custom outfit no one could afford. The "net" result was this: went turkey hunting. In midmorning, sat down on a pile of fallen trees and had a friend take a picture. Two pictures. When the pictures came back, it was hard as heck to tell where I was, even tho' I was right in the open. We surprised a turkey as we were walking back to the car: it stepped out in front of us about 15 feet ahead. We were ALL surprised: the turkey looked at me, then at my non-netted friend, then back at me --it clearly couldn't figure out what I was, but it knew exactly what my friend was and took off. As far as I was concerned, that confirmed the value of the net "gillie-suit." The advice of others concerning facial shine is exactly right: white faces flash and shine with every movement and are easily noted at distances of a mile+. SO IT IS WITH HANDS!!! An ungloved hand (and hands are almost always moving) flashes and shines big-time. I virtually always wear a net camo glove. This is the glove sold through WalMart in season, and if used could save a hunt. There is no question both animal and man are looking for movement. Movement attracts the eye and helps resolve forms. A lot of deer have given themselves away by the twitch of an ear or flicker of an eyelid. As far as that's concerned, it's likely the same goes for hunters. I think it helps to wash hunting clothes in non-scented soaps and detergents, as well as oneself. It also helps to avoid traditional breakfasts before hunting, and far beyond all is to avoid smoking --especially cigarettes-- for as much as a day before hunting. There is a handgun-hunting "club" which I think is part of the Yahoogroups. It is sponsored by a mostly-Indian woman using the name "Constance Link." She is a good hunter, and very intelligent. She hunts by staying quietly in one spot, and is very sensitive to other hunters passing through, particularly to the scent trails they emit. She has very contemptuous words for the guys who stoke up on bacon or sausage before going out: they stink for a long ways and their smell lingers after they're gone, making game uneasy. She's right: I've smelled this sort of thing, too. But far more, a single suck on a cigarette | ||
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| <Ol' Sarge> |
I have a few pieces of camo, most given to me by relatives for Christmas, etc. I also have my duty BDU field jacket, but I wear it mostly 'causse it's comfortable. Deer don't see color, but they do see big blobs. Camo is effective for breaking up an outline, but then, so does the traditional red/black mackinaw. I don't believe one pattern is any better than the other. My idea of scent control is pointing my nose into or across the wind. ------------------ | ||
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| one of us |
I posted the first reply and after reading through I had a big smile going. Sounds mostly like the Chevy / Ford issue!!! The question was about camo from someone in Az. not the hardwoods of the Eastern U.S. I have learned from bowhunting how valuable good camo is. But the question wasn't about avoiding being seen it was about patterns. I have since seen one called "stick-n-limbs" first hand and think it is another good one for many situations. Is camo a must? Hardly! But I believe that if you hunt as a predator and model your actions after real predators you will be more successful. A mountain lion is an incredibly good predator, one can learn much by example. If you ever see one in the wild you'll notice the color seems to be pretty neutral to all it's surroundings. One last thing, I've never met a successful bowhunter wearing a Filson! | |||
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| one of us |
I have worn blaze orange bibs and still got a deer at about 20-25 yards that had no idea I was there. A deers primary sense is his nose. It doesnt lie to him. Therefore, scent control should be number one on a hunters list. Noise is next. Sight is last. I have heard stories of grizzly bear sows with cubs who came across a hunters scent and took off. It was the same hunter who witnessed this and walked across the path the sow took off from. He had walked over that trail some 2 days earlier. As someone had pointed out above deer see things as a big blue world, with only a few shades of blue. The more light your slothing reflects the brighter you will look to a deer. Remeber that blaze orange dosn't reflect more light then most other colors, its just that its a color human eyes pick up as being bright becuase of the color. What a deer sees isn't close to how we see things. As long as someone wears clothes that are not shiny and reflect sunlight they will have every advantage as the most camo clad hunter. I have never seen a guide or PH wearing these full camo suits. Its just not needed for deer. | |||
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| one of us |
I hunt mulies in the bad lands of eastern Wyoming and with the high, swirling winds, I think the deer there rely more on sight and motion than scent and noise. Not that all of them can't be a factor. | |||
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| <Robin> |
Wow, that was a lot of information for a single post :-) I really apriciate all the input. Let me throw this into the mix. Is anyone here familliar with the Montana Camo patterns, Prairie Ghost and Ridge Ghost? Another interesting one to consider might be EveryWear West. I understand the need for being still, quiet, and oderless (we hope), but I am just looking for a little more advantage. Hey I need to wear something. Cheers all ------------------ | ||
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before hitting the trail causes an acrid stench which drifts intact for up to half a mile and hits sensitive noses like a sledgehammer. The ash gets all over the smoker, and the residues soak into body tissues and to be exuded by breath and body heat for hours. Worse, the stench will contaminate others nearby and even rub off onto equipment. I hate to be uncivil about it, but if I hunt with a cigarette smoker, I make sure he's off by himself and positioned where his stench will drive the deer toward me or the rest of my party. He still gets shots, but so do we...