This does not just apply to American Hunting, but how many of us, actually feel that Hunters, as a group, are United and Support each others way to enjoy the sport in the manner we individually choose.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Archers and Gun hunters don't see eye to eye about hunting.

People that want to only take long distance shots don't agree with those that want to get as close as possible.

Trophy Only hunters do not get along with the "Shoot Anything" meat hunter crowd.

Fair Chase Sportsmen seem to hate anyone that will hunt a feeder or inside a high fence.

Hunters with the latest high dollar rifle and scope rig can not stand the lever action 30-30 crowd.

The list goes on and on.

Hunting is under attack World Wide from various factions.

How can we, as a group hope to keep the tradition alive for the average person, if we can not present a United front.

Do I believe hunting will survive much longer, for the common person no.

For the moneyed and those in positions of power, whether thru politics or business, there will always be places where they can go and spend their money or use their influence.

Is there any long term hope for the average person that enjoys hunting, when everyone that hunts has their own agenda and only wants to spend their efforts in supporting the type of hunting they think is proper?

You've made some very good points.

And to make matters worse, even more trivial things -- like the recent post by someone who wants everyone to share his personal opinion of the word "harvest" and insists that anyone who doesn't is wrong-- serve to do nothing more than further divide sportsmen.

Great points you've made here. The reason for all of this is simple: hunters, like all other groups that involve human beings, are just a bunch of selfish, self serving, self centered babies that don't care about hunting as a whole. They only care about what they want, me me me! screw everybody else. Unfortunatly, this is not all, but most hunters, and the reason that we will always be divided and weak.

Hey Crazyhorse, Seems to me most of it deals with ego, posturing and trying to attain a position of respect within the overall Group of Hunters.

Though you have good points, I know people who fit each of your points exactly as you stated, some in the middle and some at the other extreme. Most of the disagreement seems to begin with Rookies trying to "over defend" a style of Hunting they do. They attack another style as Less-worthy typically because they have never tried it. And that often begins from their mis-reading good natured barbs shared between friends.

I've personally picked up a LOT of excellent Hunting tricks from Bow Hunters, but I don't currently Hunt with a Bow. Had one for a couple of years, learned "How" it Killed and decided to sell the Bow since I could Hunt year-round with a centerfire. Might just get a new Bow though.

Have made lots of l-o-n-g distance Kills and many, many Kills closer. Distance only trips into Ethical Debates when you are talking about people who have not Practiced at l-o-n-g distance, are attempting shots in improper wind conditions, or that are simply using a Computer Generated Drop Chart rather than actually doing the shooting. Distance has little to do with it being Ethical or not.

The "Elitist" - my way is the Best way and anything else does not make you a true Hunter - has at times been represented on this Board. Most eventually get laughed off as the fool they are.

Same with Fair Chase, when the question boils down to "How large an area does it take?" to create the mythical Fair Chase. There are fences and boundaries in every direction if you go far enough. This is a tough one and ALWAYS results in wild arguments that settle nothing.

Ah yes, the $$$HIGH$$$ rifle shooter looking down at everyone who does not have a Tooley, Jarrett, John Lewis, Echols, Miller, "fill in the blank" rifle. The Holy Grail of ALLLLLL rifles bunch of fools and their stooges. Even had one crying and whinning because one of his Stainless and Synthetic rifles got a scratch on it, but he was laughed off the board. Occasionally see some of his stooges still trolling around. They value the Bragging about Money more than the Hunt/Kill. Pathetic lot of fools.

I see the segments separating themselves, but they always seem to come together when placed in close(nose-to-nose) proximity with each other. To me the big problem is a lack of Leadership by the older more seasoned Hunters. Many just let the youngsters run around making fools of themselves and don't step in to correct them. Then the Rookies think they are correct because no one told them otherwise. The Rookies may act as if they aren't listening when someone corrects them, but they do not forget it when they are corrected and soon realize the wisdom of their Elders.

So, if anyone is to blame, it is us older folks for allowing ignorance to spread without challenge.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills.

One thing that has always bugged me a bit is "fair chase". Fair chase for whom? If Mr. Big Game Hunter is say in his 30's or 40's, still lean and mean and can run up a mountmain like a goat, the fair chase to him might mean one thing. But take another fellow, maybe in his 60's to 70's that due to physical problems can no longer hunt in the manner ot he younger pers, then what constitutes fair chase for him, or do the fair chase SNOBS rather he quit altogether. Is it wrong for one crippled and in a wheel chair to hunt by a feeder, or like the old guy, tell him he can no longer hunt. What sophistrical bullshit!
Paul B.

This is an interesting topic as I suspect we hunters are in for big changes over the next 25 years or so.

The sport hunting "culture" in our country is new in terms of history. Our country has changed to where virtually no one is a subsistance hunter nor a "live off the land" type of person. It does not work in our country any longer. With that change, the "need" to hunt is no longer out there. The "quest or desire" to hunt is the driver now. As in recreational activity, there are supports and detractors. This goes for football, golf or gardening.

Animals evoke strong emotion in us whereas butterfly collectors get no grief for smothering or poisoning butterflies in order to stick pins in them and display them on a board in your house.

As sport hunters, we can self regulate or allow the non-hunters to create the structure by which we will be regulated. This will occur by default if we, as hunters, do not. Right now, there is no all encompassing organization or body out there that can manage this process. SCI, NRA or others are not equipped either.

So, what happens? Most likely we will go the way of Norway or Great Britian with more and more stringent gun control laws and laws governing proficient use of sporting arms. Bag limits will drop, costs will go up exponentially to where the average Joe cannot afford to hunt. This will happen, based on history, unless the sportsmen and conservationists in US and Canada can join forces and make the case for sport hunting. There is too much apathy about it right now as well as well over 200 hunting and conservation organizations with separate agendas that cannot unite to provide a united front to fight this battle.

That is how I see it. I fully expect that sportsman will lose in the long run and sport hunting will be virtually non-existant in the next 100 years in the US.

Many Thanks to everyone that has replied.

A lot of good and valid points were presented.

I think that the question all of us needs to be asking each other, is whther or not our individual ideas/concepts of hunting and killing game, are more important to us as individuals or as a group.

I relly don't care what a lot of folks are saying on the various forums, because from what I have been witnessing over the past 18 months or so, is that American Hunting for the common person is going to be non-existant in just a few years.

I haven't read the other replies and frankly don't care to. This is something I have been DEEPLY involved in for many years until finally tiring of beating my head against the wall, gave up completely serveral years ago.

I have spent many, many hours for years working to unite and further the cause of all outdoor sports and particularly hunting. I have been integral in the formation of several organizations and a primary officer in several others. There is such unnecessary infighting and jealously among the groups - traditional bowhunters, modern bowhunters, traditional M/L, modern M/L, gun hunters, trappers, coon hunters, fox hunters, etc... wherever there is overlap for the same game or where a particular practice can interfere with another the problems start... each thinks his sport should have precedence over the other(s),etc. Then there are the game departments! While they exist because of the hunters their salaries are paid by the politicians. Their hearts may be in the right place but their policies are typically driven by politics!

Worst of all though are the biggest group of all. The ones who take no active part in any of this, good or bad. They usually are the most ardent hunters but do nothing (except maybe pay minimal dues to some club or organiztion) to further the sports. The apathy among sportsmen as a whole is atrocious!!! Everyone thinks "somebody should do something" about this or that but damned few are willing to step up and do it, or at least help. THAT is what finally did me in. While I was in the capital, on the phone or writing letters trying to make changes the guys who expected "somebody" to do something were merrily out hunting! These guys are content to bitch and moan all year but wont sacrifice their time to do anything about it. Instead they simply pay whatever the fee and play by this years new rules while they bitch about nobody else doing anything about it. Well, I finally decided I'd rather be hunting than trying to help somebody who don't give a hoot about helping their own cause.

OK, now that I got that off my chest I feel a lot better! Sorry fellas.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
from what I have been witnessing over the past 18 months or so, is that American Hunting for the common person is going to be non-existant in just a few years.

Hmmm, maybe I should have read this one post before repling. I agree almost completely. I'd give it more than a few years but we are surely on the way out. I think hunting in some form will continue far into the future but yes, "as we know it" is dying faster each year. More than any other thing I attribute it to the urbanization of America. Not necessarily the physical urbanization / loss of habitat, etc. but more the adoption of "urban" values and ideas. Kids specificly are too busy with baseball, football, soccer, dance, band, etc., ect., etc... and when they aren't at one of these activities they're planted in front of the TV or computer. Hunters aren't made they're born but even instinct needs to be nurtured! There're plenty of perfectly good bird dogs and retreivers living in apartments and prancing in show rings to prove the point.

I, too, am concerned about the future of hunting in America. We hunters, must present a united front to keep our sport alive. We are being attacked from all angles, we don't need to attack one another from within. Yes, we'll all have strong opinions on some of the various items mentioned, but someway, we've got to learn how to discuss without getting angry and railing against one another.