Nice post Big Nate
Well said.

I have no doubts a deer and possibly even bigger game of the non-dangerous variety cn be taken with a .223 Rem. hell, on occsion I've taken a deer with the .22LR, no brag intended, just forced by necessity at a time when a perso as poor as a church mouse was wealthy by comparison.
I've taken kids out on their first deer hunts using my .243 nd while they all had one shot kills, I wasn't impressed. Only one was a drop dead DRT, and the other ran off with a typical death run. My gripe? No blood trail or one so sparse that if th area has been very brushy there would have been a good chance the deer would have been lost. I haven't shot anything with my .257 Robt. yet so will hold judgement bur personally based on 57 years hunting deer I'm inclined to stick with my .270 or 30-06. I've only lost two deer in all those years and both were shot with a 7x57. It was not the fault of the cartridge or rifle but in the bullets used. The first was shot with the 175 gr. Federal round nose. I'd just bought the rifle and the store in the small western town I lived in only had three boxes of that ammo and none with lighter bullet weights. I'm thinking that bullet just penciled through without opening up at all and the blood trail petered out very quickly. I sold that rifle and still had the left over ammo. Yreas later I had a nice custom mauser made up in 7x57 and by that time also had a chronograph. What a shock to see that ammo advertised at 2400 FPS only delivering 2010 FPS. Seems like in a recent article one of the gunwriters wrote that he had similar results with that Federal ammo in 7x57.
The other loss was parly due to possible bullet failure and my having my foot roll to the left while the rest of my carcass twisting to the right resulting in ripping the crap of out the cartilige in my right knee. That was 8 years ago and I still limp from it. I wanted my hunting partners to go after the deer but they insisted getting me to a hospital. Dammit!
I do know in both cases the shots were good,just bad luck.
I like what an Idian guide once told jack O'Connor. "Any gun good. Shootum good." Makes sense to me.
Paul B.

BigNate said everything I would have said on the topic, as it is how I teach the kids I take.
Funny how often the AR platform part comes up. What I like are the scaled size of a boltgun in .223, with a shortened stock kids can shoot the lights out of things while practicing. I'm right there whispering in their ear while they squeeze that shot off on a deer. None lost to date.

I've always kind of thought that the right thing to do was carry a rifle of adequate caliber to handle whatever the biggest thing you reasonably expect to come across.

There is a huge disparity when it comes to game. A whitetail in the south may barely make it to 120 lbs on the hoof. A whitetail in Maine, Minnesota or Canada may very well push or even exceed 300 lbs. Big difference there. So, what may work well in a place like TX or FL may not be suitable in other areas.

And then, there are the different species of deer and the hunting for them that need to be taken into consideration as well. A big mountain or plains mulie is going to be taken in different circumstances than a whitetail shot out of a food lot in the midwest or heavy timber areas. What works in one may very well fail to work in the other. Distance can negate the effectiveness of a round.

And then, what other game is legal during the season? For instance in my native Colorado it is entirely legal to hunt deer, bear and elk at the same time. Matter of fact in Colorado, if you're really lucky on the draw you could have a moose tag and a deer tag in your pocket at the same time. While something like a .223 may be just the ticket for a deer for meat, it is not the right tool for the job when it comes to elk, moose or bear.

That's why some states don't allow the .22 centerfires for big game. In Colorado the regulations do not say a .22 caliber centerfire is not legal for deer. It says it is not legal for big game because many people every year, myself included, hunt elk and deer at the same time. Several times I have killed an elk while trying to kill deer. And I know many others that have done the same thing as well.

All this just goes to show that the phrase "minimum" is somewhat subjective. Minimum for a FL whitetail is different than minimum for a big corn fed NE or KS whitetail. No amount of fighting back and forth will change that fact.

As far as I'm concerned, use whatever you want. As long as it is adequate and legal. At the very least, the animal you shoot at deserves that consideration.

I like to run them down and cut their throat with a switchblade.Don`t need no stinkin gun!!!

Southern whitetails...a NP or TSX through the heart/lungs with a .224 or .375 the result is the same, a dead deer in 30 yards from spot of impact.

5 dead whitetails to date this year with a 223/TSX combo. no bragging, no trick, no real feat.

Perry

quote:

Originally posted by Savage_99:
I don't know what happened to my post however here is what I want to say:

Of late some mention that they shot some big game with some .22 centerfire and used some bullet or other.

To me they are bragging that they are so good that "Its all you need." is the mantra.

I see it as just that bragging but no concern if the animal suffers or in fact escapes with a wound.

My suggestion is to use all the gun that you can shoot well and if you can't then don't hunt that animal.

As a 223 shooter (on occasion) the only comment that bothers me in the above is that you presume to know the minds and motives of people you've never seen and never will know.

If that's not a form of bragging, then there isn't such a thing.

i know from experience that alot of different
sized calibers will kill all different
sized game.
i also think alot of game is lost because
alot of people don't know how to look for them,
or don't look at all, when it runs off.
Plenty of evidence that big game can be killed with regular and small cartridges.
What did "we" use before Roy Weatherby
brought us into the "magnum-era"?
On the flip side i don't think everyone in the
woods is capable of killin elk with a 243 or 25-06 either.
Shoot what you can handle and have PRACTICED
with.Educate yourself on anatomy, get a grip on
"the fever" and put the bullet where it needs to be.
Punch your Fun Ticket, Sharpen your knife....