Here in Wisconsin it is illegal to hunt deer with the aid of dogs wounded or not. It would be nice to have a good blood tracker during bow season as much of time there is no snow. But is is one of those old time it isn't sporting type laws we most likely well never get rid of.
We do use hounds for bears,cats,yotes and fox ect. I had a great time running yotes this winter.

Wolfgang,

The use of dogs in Calif. is an old tradition that is still practiced. In the brush country of California it is a very popular way of hunting deer. Dogs are used dogs to get them out of their brush hide-a-ways. While a few people seem to think that it is illegal to use dogs according to the current Calif. Fish & Game code Section 265 F c1 - Unless otherwise stated the use of dogs is approved for the taking of deer during the General Rifle Season ONLY. You are limited to one dog per hunter. You can not use dogs during Archery season, special hunts(such as a Junior only hunt, special drawings, etc.) or on Federal Reserve land such as a military reserve. Private property, BLM or Federal/State/County Forrest areas/lands are approved areas for the use of dogs. There are a few areas, mostly in Southern Calif. that have dog control zones where the use of dogs is restricted. I verified this when I called the Department of Fish & Game in Sacramento the other day. Lawdog

In NY there are licensed trackers that can use dogs to help recover wounded deer and bear. Otherwise, you can't use dogs on big game.

I lived in Alabama in the late 80's, down there it was legal and common to hunt deer in the swamps with dogs. A group would put "posters" a several spots around the swamp, then the dogs would be put in at a known location, they would chase the deer through the swamp and hopefully past were you were 'posted'. I never thought that this type of hunting was sporting when I lived up north. However after trying it several times, I believe it is. It is not easy to hit a deer roaring out of the swamp at near top speed at a spot that is unknown. One has a very short time to locate the deer, and fire a shot before it is into the next heavy brush. Generally, the folks used shotguns and buckshot in this type of hunting-- so only short range shots could be taken.

Hello Wolfgang! Welcome to the forum. I'm a new member here myself, and I don't reply to many posts; but I wanted to reply to your question about hunting game with dogs.



Here in Mississippi dogs are currently used to retrieve ducks and doves that have been shot, and to run deer and rabbits, and to tree squirrels and point quail.



Hunting with dogs has probably been practiced here since before Mississippi even became a state, and there is a strong tradition of using dogs to hunt game.



However, some of these methods of using dogs to hunt are slowly dying out due to several factors. Not as many people hunt squirrels here as they used to, and there are not nearly as many quail as there used to be, and not many new hunters take up quail hunting, and the older generations of quail hunters are dying out. Also, the use of dogs to hunt deer is steadily declining because of the problem of the dogs running across private property, the fact that people who own the dogs spend a great deal of money on the packs (anywhere from 2 to as many as 20 dogs at a time released to run a track) and the fact that if you hunt with dogs you normally spend more time locating and recovering your dogs than you actually spend running and hunting deer with them. Most people now realize that they can hunt deer much more successfully by still hunting from blinds and tree stands than by hunting with dogs.



As an example, back in the middle '70's when I first began to deer hunt, probably anywhere from 95 to 99 percent of hunters hunted with dogs, but now the proportion is probably 90 percent still hunting (standing)and maybe 10 percent who presently hunt with dogs in our hunting club.



I believe it is very likely that within another 25 or 30 years, the use of dogs to hunt deer here will have completely died out.



I have hunted deer with dogs myself, and it is very exciting and challenging if it is done correctly with good sportsmanship, but to me it is just much more productive to hunt from tree stands and ground blinds.



If you would like to get a really good understanding of what deer hunting with dogs was like in Mississippi in the first half of the 20th century, read Race At Morning and The Bear by our great Mississippi author William Faulkner. These two wonderful stories will convey what it was like to hunt deer with dogs in Mississippi much better than I can ever hope to explain it.



After you read those stories, substitute 4 wheel drive pickups and 3 wheelers and now 4 wheelers for the horses and wagons used and .30-06s, .270s, .243s, and .308s in autoloaders and pumps for the shotguns and buckshot used then and add tracking collars to locate the prized dogs and you will have an idea of dog hunting for deer in Mississippi during the latter part of the 20th century.



I know this reply is long, but I still have a special place in my heart for deer hunting with dogs even though I very seldom do it anymore. Hope this helps.



Ole Miss Rebel

Hey Ole Miss Rebel, Let me strongly encourage you to begin posting more often. It was a real pleasure reading your post.



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Like Ole Miss Rebel, Dog Hunting across the Southeastern USA is still quite common. But I do agree with him it has declined a bit. It seems a lot of folks are now using their dogs to run Hogs because you can do that nearly all year long.



As he also mentioned concerning books, it seems each State has a particularly good writer of our Hunting Tradition. In the Carolinas that would be Archibald Rutledge. Any book of his, that you are fortunate enough to find, is an excellent read.



He wrote during the mid 1700s and the tradition of Dog Hunting was alive and well back then. Many of his stories told of "Riding to the Hounds" on horseback (of course) across the vast savannahs and plantations.



One particular story that has stuck in my mind is a Deer Hunt he relates which ends up with the Cane being so thick he had to dismount. The Hounds were at bay and he thought they had a Hog. As he made his way to them with only a knife, he became confronted with a large Black Bear. Apparently killing a Black Bear with a knife was no big deal back then.



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We have a particularly good South Carolina Fish & Wildlife Department. If someone in the hunting party "wounds" a Deer at dusk and we can't locate it immediately, a call is made to "Wildlife". We request that a Game Warden join us for the "after legal hours tracking" with a single Dog. Sometimes they join us and sometimes they tell us to go ahead. Excellent folks to work with.

Thanks for the compliment Hot Core. I'll try to be a little more active with my posting.

Ole Miss Rebel

Thank you all for your posts! I suggested, that there is a lot of hunting with dogs, other than only still hunting or scouting. I only never read about it over the forums. In Germany a lot of tracking is done with dogs, with special breeds and "allrounders" too. Most jobs are done on boar that is hunted at night or on driven hunts with dogs. There are many cases where you can`t find any blood and boars, beeing rarely alone, can only hardly be followed without a dog, to find out, when the wounded one left the others.

Chasing is another story and is done on boar but on roe deer and deer too. In the thick brush you hardly will ever see game, as long as they have there all they need to live. They simple don`t move alot (roe deer) or only at night. You need good dogs to put them to cover some ground, that the waiting hunters get a chance to shoot. The fun at such hunting is, that you are very generous with the fact, that you might not be the shooter, as long as you hear your dog barking on the tracks and know, that he deserves the acknowledgement for a successful hunt.

I`m as happy as I would be when I was the shooter. You rarely find envy among owners of chasing dogs

Keep coming on with your descriptions of chasing and tracking!

Wolfgang

Let us not forget that there are entire categories of game that are hunted with hounds in the US, that are unknown in the old country.

Coons, for example. Where do go to compare the sound of a pack of red bone's baying up a tree at three a.m.?

Where do we go to compare the incredible performance of a pack of beagles after cottontails on an island in the Mississippi?

How do you convey the physical demands of a modern cougar hunt, with a pack of blue tick hounds chasing a big tom over two mountain ranges? Or running bobcat for three hours, only to have the cat give you the slip. Or a big black bear refusing to tree, standing off three or four dogs (and hopefully not tearing them all up?).

Finally, if you have ever seen someone bring in coyotes to the shooter with a mountain curr, you'll agree there is nothing to compare it to. A uniquely American way to hunt with dogs, for dogs. FWIW, Dutch.

"How about chasing other game than coons and Mountain Lion?"

Dutch, no offense taken! I knew only about hunting cats and coons in the US. I did not mean that these are not enjoyable hunts! Contrary, I consider every hunt with dogs, especially tracking and chasing real hunting compared with our main hunting method in Europe "still hunting". Every kind of hunting has its beautiful sides, I for my person enjoy more the hunting with dogs, where dogs are demanded to make their own decisions and don`t ask their "boss" every minute where to go and what to do. I like to hunt with dogs as an partner less than a slave.

My short description about chasing and tracking in Germany was only made to give you a small impression, not to look "down" on hunting cats and coon.

Greetings

Wolfgang

Woli, no offense taken, at all. Having lived on both sides of the pond, I am perhaps more familiar with the various hunting traditions than some. I know several houndsmen here, and their dedication and skill is awesome. Still, I think it would be fair to say that the differences in hunting traditions within the 50 states is as large as the differences between Europe and the States.

All that hound work still doesn't compare to a good point on a covey of Chuckars, but that's another story, entirely. LOL! Dutch.

Hey Woli, I skipped over Coon Hunts because of your first post, but Dutch is absolutely correct about listening to the RedBones and BlueTics in the dark of night. Running a swamp where you spend a good bit of time with your nose in the mud(speaking for me) as you hang a toe in a root is interesting. Especially when there are lots of large Snakes around.



There is a yearly "World Championship Coon Trial" in Orangeburg, S.C. each year. Quite an event.



Even left out the Rabbit Dogs, Bird Dogs and Retrievers.



A couple of my close buddies have large packs of Rabbit Dogs and they enjoy running them as much as I enjoy Deer Hunting. The Rabbits tend to have "cycles" of high and low survival rates over several year periods. And of course, finding land suitable to hunt becomes more difficult each year due to folks wanting to build on ANY open land.



The Bird Hunters(Quail) tend to lean a bit more toward the Country Club set. Here you will see folks typically spend HUGE amounts of money on firearms and outfits to "look the part" of the "Gentleman Hunter". Acquiring a Point and having the other Dogs Honor the Point and Back it up is far more important than the kill. Here you need to be with the Hunters in order to enjoy "seeing" the Dogs work.



I've also been blessed with being able to hunt Ducks and Geese on the Eastern N.C. coast with some folks that own outstanding Labs. The Labs seem to go on "alert" the moment they get headed for the Blind.



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Last but not least was a dog named "Dog" that had only one eye. He had run into the end of a mower-point while the owner was cutting hay. I went Dove Hunting at this man's farm in Uno, KY long ago and he suggested I take Dog with me. He claimed he would "Point Doves" coming into a field by raising his ears, stiffening, shuffling his front feet a bit and do some low excited growls. (Like I'm going to believe that!)



Told him fine and Dog and I took off for the disked corn field around 1PM to check it out. Doves wouldn't be flying until 3PM which gave us plenty of time to pick a comfortable spot where we could watch for the "flyways".



On the way to the field, Dog and I cut across an Alfalfa field which had been cut and bailed about 2 weeks before. So the regrowth was maybe mid-calf. Dog is in no big hurry because it was pushing 90deg, but he is staying about 15yds ahead of me. All of a sudden, Dog walks through the middle of a covey of Quail and they nearly scare both of us to death as they fly. Hard to believe, but I dropped 4 out of the group with a double barrel Fox, 3 and 1. Dog ran off maybe 50yds, sat down and tried to get his breath. I really thought he might have a heart attack. I guess the wind was at our back and he never knew they were there until he stomped them.



Went on to the Corn field and I settled in with my back against a Cedar tree and my feet in the last plow furrow. Dog looked around a bit, circled the field, came back and layed down on my right next to me.



I think we both dozed off. I was awakened by a noise to my left and looked slowly up to see a Ground Hog ambling straight up the last furrow toward my feet. The Fox was across my lap and Dog was to my right. Happened to forget about Dog and when the G-Hog got close, I just eased the Fox up off my lap. The G-Hog had quick recognition of the situation and turned in the blink of an eye. However he couldn't outrun the handloaded #8s and they cut him a flip.



HUGE comotion back to my right and I'd scared Dog "REALLY BAD"! Out across the field he went and finally got sat down to catch his breath - again. I didn't expect him to return, but once he calmed down, here he came to check out the G-Hog. Skinned the G-Hog, put the head atop a post and wrapped the hide around the post. Looked like the G-Hog was sitting atop a short post.



Right at 3PM the Doves began to fly. I spoke to Dog and he pepped right up. Next thing I knew, he was doing just as the Farmer had told me about "Pointing Doves". He was amazing with that one eye. When I would shoot a Dove, he would go put his foot on it, but would not take one in his mouth. I shot one double and as I picked up the one he was holding, he went to the other one. We had quite a fine hunt.



A truly amazing one-eyed dog named Dog.

Using dogs when hunting big game is not the same all over Europa. We have different traditions in Scandinavia compared to the more continental countries.In Norway,Sweden and Finland using an elkhound for moosehunting is very populare.Elkhounds don't hunt in packs,sometimes couples ,but never packs.

The elkound is not chasing the moose ,but it is trying to stop it.When the moose has stopped the elkhound is barking(baying?) at it.Sometimes for many hours.The hunter is trying to locate the animals ,get close an then shoot the moose.

A norwegian gray elkhound is first of all a hunting dog, and I feel sad thinking about all the fine elkhounda in the USA that are not allowed to hunt! I have heard this sort of hunting is allowed some places in Canada.



The second way of using an elkhound is to have it in a leash. Then the hunter and the dog are trying to locate the moose by using the dogs nose,ears and eyes.They work very close together as a team. This sort of hunting is very populare in Norway and is also used on deers. A deer will not so easily stop for a running free dog as a moose.



This sort of hunting is not disturbing any animal so i don't understand why it is not allowed in the USA.



Trackingdogs are also used in a leash in my country.This is not chasing at all, so why this is so "bad" in the USA ? I don't know. Politicians and laws are not so easy to understand,neither in America or Europe.



BTW i don't understand why they use the name elkhound in english speaking countries.The norwegian name is elghund,wich means moosedog. elg=moose

Official name is Norsk elghund gr�= Norwegian moosedog gray



We don't have elk here,but when we talk about the north american elk we call it wapiti.Is that an indian name for elk?

Hunting or tracking wounded game with dogs is prohibited in Alaska, as well as using any artificial light for taking game (that includes electronic night scopes). The use of radios, telephones, or any electronic means that can be used to send information, or to communicate with another hunter (or hunters) is prohibited. It's also against the law to hunt on the same day one arrives via aircraft to the hunting destination. It's illegal to fly in/out to a hunting destination via helicopters.

What does the common hunter think about all these prohibitions?

Nice to see Ole Miss represented however I'm In a precarious position of being a State grad with a brother who was on the Ole Miss faculty. My first head of big game was a turkey shot in Alabama while hunting deer with dogs. Most exciting for a 12 year old. My county was big on fox hunting and I have spent many nites with my grandfather listening to the music. Haven't hunted there in years and would imagine the sport is dying out as it was mostly an old mans sport when I was young and that's many years ago.I agree that Faulkner certainly captures the essence of the traditional hunt as done in Mississippi.

Artificial lights,included nightvision, are not allowed here in Norway,with one exception; for fox hunting.In that case the light source must be mounted/fixed, on a wall ,roof etc.
Illuminated scopes are allowed for night time hunting.

My hometown is situated at the same latitude as Anchorage so i guess we have pretty much the same light conditions as you have if you live nearby Anchorage.But i live very close to the mountains in a fjord so the mountains are unforunetaly shadowing for the sun. So from october to march we don't have the sun here.If i want to see the sun i must go up in the mountains.

In the northern part of my country you can se the midnight sun,just as in the northern part of Alaska i guess.

In Scandinavia (Norway+Sweden) and Finland we shoot about 200000 moose every year. These countries are about 3/4 of Alaska in area.Do you have the numbers for Alaska? Or are there no such records? I guess the numbers are lower,because of more predators, harsh winters and other reasons.

Its too bad that america doesn't use more dogs in the recovery of game. Once you witness the ability of a dog to recover game or humans for that matter,you're pretty well sold on their ability. The problem is in america,you have so many hillbilly assholes that would be using dogs to actually hunt deer and elk,so they can sit on their ass more.

Here in Italy they almost only hunt with dogs.

My thoughts on the matter? It pisses me off no end to have a dogs rushing and stumbling around scaring everything off while I'm trying to hunt.
Dogs are great, but I like to hunt, not have the dog do it for me.

Bar one expection: "Holding" dogs and a knife. Big strong dogs are used to catch the pug by the ears and hold it while you run in with a blade and dispatch it.
This is very exiting method and a lot of fun, but not quite hunting, more a sport I think.

That said, they have some pretty interesting methods here that you may be interested to hear about;

Deer may not be hunted with dogs, though they may be tracked if needed once wounded.

The biggest event with dogs here is the boar drive.
I live in the heartlands of this tradition, though I only participate in one or two a year for the company of a friend.

It is as a much a social event as a hunt, which for some is important, for me, not so. I am a solitary person and my idea of hunting doesn't fit in with this.

They also use setters and other pointers for pigs, as you would with pheasant. This kind of hunting is limited to some areas and not many people have these dogs. It is quite fun, just like wingshooting, except you are shooting dashing pigs instead. Pis, if they are sure they have good cover, especially big boars, will prefer to hold ground in the hope that you will just walk on by.
3 people are needed, since it is hard to flush them and they set up in a triangular formation and throw rock into teh bushes to flush the pigs if the dogs can't get them to move.

Another method is roaming in a small group with small yappy dogs that bail the pig up, then it is shot while it is being distracted by the dogs.

The biggest problem I have is with the drive hunts.
My biggest problem is actually with the people who participate in them.

See, most of these blokes just turn up, take number out of a hat, go to the stand and wait for something to come by.

Shots are fired at sight, sound, and even "intuition" accidents are not uncommon. People get shot.

Furthermore, a lot of animals are wounded, shot placement isn't even a know word or argument.

Semi auto shotguns and rapid fire are the way of the world in these drives, just hearing it is an experience!

30 to 60 people, up to 70 dogs sometimes, close off a mountain and shoot everyfuckingthing that comes out.
Young striped piglets,(referred to as still having their "pyjamas") sows with suckers, and unfortunately, deer and wolves sometimes too.

We have a small population of red deer growing(trying to) in this area but every year these idiots poach a half dozen or so. The herd comprises of about 15 animals.

So that is my main gripe with the situation here.
I don't have a prolem with ethical use of dogs for hunting, such as I hear the Scandinavians do for moose, one on one.

Unfortunately I had a bad initial impact with the argument and am bitter about the whole thing.

The aresholes here sneak into the preserves at night, beating out the pigs, them close off the boundries with coloured tape and stink bombs so they can shoot the pigs "legaly" the next morning.

A few people from AR have been over and seen evidence of what I am talking about, maybe they will chime in.

Hjortejager,

The "average hunter" is not very concerned about the rules. The rules in place are seen as keeping the sport "fair and equal". Especially in the Western States, hunting is seen as a birth right of all, and methods of hunting that give undue advantage to one group of users (i.e. hunters with dogs, or even hunters with ATV's) are frowned upon. The tradition is that if there is not enough game to go around, seasons are shortened, methods of take are limited, seasons are moved, or size restrictions are put in place. As a last resort, the opportunity to hunt is distributed by a lottery.

"Making hunters more effective" by using dogs is not seen as a good thing, in most big game hunts. With birds, it's the opposite. There's lots of birds, and dogs reduce the harvest because the increased recovery rate when a dog is working. FWIW, Dutch.

Here in Louisiana it is Legal to track wounded game w/ a leashed dog. IMO, it is one of the most ethical practices a hunter can portake in. We should do everything in our power to recover the game we shoot.

I know too many people that don't hardly look if they dont find good blood or they don't see the animal go down. That kind of hunting just make my blood boil. If I make a bad shot, I will stay until midnight looking if that is what it takes.

Back to dogs, we have used beagle dogs for years to aid in tracking game. When they were pups, we would freeze deer hides and train them thoughout the year.

There could be 1/2 a dozen deer at the shot and no blood to be seen but, that beagle will go to the wounded deer every time. They smell the microscopic blood particles that we cant see.

I think that this practice should be allowed everywhere.

Reloader

You can find more about tracking dogs at www.thetroutbum.com There are also some video clips from tracking, and hunting + a tracking dog forum.

I don't have the number of moose killed by hunters in Alaska, but approximately 3% of all the "dead" moose are killed by hunters, and the rest by winter and predators. We have a wolf population of over 10,000, but I don't remember the number of bears, but the number is huge. Lost of moose are killed by automobiles all over Alaska, and a few hundreds each winter by trains.

Alaska is the largest State, but with only 600,000 residents, the number of hunters is not large.