That a cartridge is capable of higher velocities does not make it more versatile it only makes it faster. Now, I have rifles chambered for standard cartridges and I have rifles chambered for magnums and from a practical standpoint I favor the standards.
Consider two Model 70s. One is in 30/06, the other in 308 Norma. The Norma shoots a little flatter but I still limit myself to about 400yd so it doesn't really matter. With the Norma I only have to carry three rounds in the mag since that's all it will hold. Powder doesn't go stale since it's used up at a greater rate!
The truth is, it makes little difference. If I need more than three shots it's probably too late. If I need another 200fps it's probably too far If I can't afford the powder I can't afford the hunting licence. My choice would be the 30/06. If I felt I needed a magnum my choice would be the 338. Regards, Bill.

Allen, Gotcha .... but about that .300 Savage ...

I went the route of a single, custom gun. Caliber and the rest aren't important. What is important is busting the stock on a hunting trip. You don't walk into a sporting goods store and buy a plastic replacement to get you through. You hire a stock maker and pay him the price of two or three off the rack rifles. I went back to off the shelf rifles in popular calibers; a 300 Win, a 270 and until last Monday, a 7MM 08. That one went to market in trade for a 300 WSM. But that's another story.

If you hadn't mentioned antelope, I would have recommended a .358 Winchester or .35 Whelen.

With the inclusion of the antelope, I'd recommend something in the 7X57, 7mm-08, .284, .280. .308 and 30-06 range. These cartridges give you power and bullet weight potential for larger game, as well as the ability to lighten weight and go for range and velocity for the lighter stuff.

I like the idea of at least two fully equipped rifles. At least a spare scope on some sort of detachable mount if you have only one rifle.
I tend to favor the .308 over the '06.
With modern bullets, like the 168 gr. Barnes X, the heavier bullets offer nothing.
The .308 has all sorts of cheap practice ammo availiable for it. Not the case with the '06 any more.
If you like light, short guns, the .308 works better for several reasons. In the longer heavier guns, the '06 has an edge. E

I'm jumping on this thread late just to add my $0.02 on the subject. Personally, I'm anti-magnum anything. Mostly becuse I'm yet to find anything in the lower 48 that's hard to kill. If you want speed, shoot a lighter bullet. Nevermind all the psychology/marketing behind newer/faster/magnum cartridges. But that's another thread.

That said, if your primary quarry is deer, why not the classic 7x57? My cousin shoots (110?) or 120gr Speer hollow points for NV deer and antelope and vermin. Most of his shots are further than average and most hunts end in a single shot. And when he has the occasion to go after elk, he buy's a couple boxes of 165gr fodder and slays those critters too. His old Ruger is a light, useful setup. So much so, that if I'd bought one years ago I wonder what my arsenal would look like today. Hummm.... FWIW

Is no one considdering the true one-gun riflecaliber!?? the 7x61 Super has the worldrecord in collecting a large number of trophies with one rifle in a single caliber!! The guy who did it shot 281 species with the same Shultz & Larsen 7x61 super!! It�s a bit hard to get ammo for but the guy ought to get some credit for capping off both elephant and quail with the same rig!!

some kind of 7mm mag. either remington's weatherby's version or stw. they will do it all and I would not feel out of place in Alaska or most of africa. I like the STW the best and would get the gun smith make the gun shoot the failsafe 160-175 grainers. Then you would have it all.

Brian

Nebraska, all

Not meaning to rile anyone greatly but my father taught me something many many moons ago. "When someone asks you a question: first answer the one that he asks, then if need be, answer the one that you think he meant to ask."

If I were you I would go with the .257 Wby. You are already convinced that the round is optimal for YOU.

Since you are getting a custom rifle with a custom fit then you are going to be getting a rifle that is made just for YOU. It should fit like a glove.

No, I am not Natty Bumpo and dont have a large list of big game animals behind me but my personal opinion of rifles/shotguns/pistols is to find a cartridge that I am happy with and then find the gun that best suits my needs. I place the gun action, quality, fit, esthetics, to an even greater level than calibre or ga.

Correct fit and comfort in shooting allows for 2 (at least) criteria of shooting that are not a parameter of calibre. These are the ability to shoulder the rifle/shotgun quickly and to be able to be "happy" at the range in practice.

Then there is just the "I am as happy as a pig in slop" consideration. I want to be just tickled pink with whatever I get. How can Nebraska go wrong with getting a .257? He cant.

Now for my personal opinion. I dont think that there are many true "one gun only" folks out there but if Nebraska wants to delude himself then he can do that too. VBG

Jim B.

If you handload, I would go with the .280. However, if you like 25 caliber, look into the
25-06 instead of the 257Wby.

AND THE ANSWER IS: Don't sell your other guns, just build on the battery. God made tons of em', just buy another and another. Now the real question is do I get a 60" safe or 40" safe???? I personally think one can't get by without a minimum of a three gun battery: 223/270/338 or was it 22WMR/270WSM/soon to be 338WSM. BTW one of my latest is the 300WSM. Very nice on the shoulder and light in the Browning Stalker and does a great job with the down range punch. Has great long range capability also. (My.02)

I personally would go with the 30-06 as well. It has a great selection of bullets, ammo can be found anywhere and it'll kill anything in North America. Out of the 2 you listed though, I would go with the 280. The benefit of 160 or 175gr bullets is HUGE when it comes to an elk over the 120gr in the 25 cal.

Boy Nebraska, you are going in circles now.

You've been all worked up on the 257 wby for over a month, why change your recipie now? You made it pretty clear that you want flat shooting, light recoil, and you won't be hunting Elk.

So ignore all those comments about your 257 not being stout enough for Elk and build the rifle that you really WANT (which is that 257)

BTW, the 257 wby is pretty dang "ultra" it just has a small bore and light bullet, so it won't knock your lights out when you shoot it.

Build it!!! and have fun...JimF

My vote goes to any non-magnum cartridge starting with the 280 Rem, 25-06, 6.5 Swede (my favorite), and the like. If I need anything bigger, I would go with the 358 Win. All have mild recoil (especially the Swede)and they flat get the job done. If I need a magnum, I would use my 375 H&H.

Bill, if that's so then I guess a .30-30 is just as versatile as your .30-06. I find no logic in your logic...........

I notice that most Weatherby Award winners are .300 magnum shooters, so these folks must be just as dazed and confused as I am. One of these guys lives within a 45 minute drive of my house. He has a .300 Weatherby that he's owned for over forty years and he's used it for the vast majority of his hunting, taking hundreds of trophy animals with it. That rifle is on its FOURTH barrel right now.

AD

Back to the real world. The vast majority of hunters don't know what the Weatherby award is and don't care. In fact that topic has never even come up in the hunting camps I have been in and that goes back to 1951.

Most hunters just want to get something. given the choice of a .300 Weatherby and a 30/30 again the vast majority have chosen other .30 calibers.

At the club I belong to there is a mix of shooters. Some are just bench rest shooters, plinkers, military types and competition shooters. The majority are hunters who just show up once a year it seems to check their sights. I have only seen one .300 Weatherby there in almost 50 years. And the friend who owns one has it for sale. He does not like it. He owns a .416 Rem, .375 RUM, .375 H&H, 257 Weatherby, 450 Marlin in a custom bolt rifle. He has been to Africa a number of times and hunts here on a regular basis. The .300 Weatherby MK V is for sale and it has a black plastic stock whatever that is.

Does anyone wonder why Weatherby award winners shoot Weatherby's? I suppose someone would go to the Corvette show here today and expect to win with a Ferrari.

Don,

I think Jack O'Oconnor and Warren Page were winners and page shot about everthing with a 7mm Mashburn Magnum.

There was some prince from Iran who I think was a 7 X 57 man.

Some bloke with a name like Jay Meilon or similar who I think used a 300 Winchester.

It is true most shooters are not too aware of the Wby Awards. It is equally true that most shooters don't have $10 million in the bank. But there is a fair chance that the shooter with $10 million in the bank might have a habit of doing things that work.

Mike.

Don what part of the world are you from? I'd hazzard a guess that it tis not from the west. I live in Montana and I do see a lot of 300's (take your pick but the Wby is there just as much as the others).

Personally I feel the 300's are wonderful rounds and are right up there with my beloved 340 and 7 Mashburn.

Just curious as to where you are from Don?

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

oh and you suppose I should be pressing my Tux as I too shoot a 7 Mashburn? grins and grins

Other 7 Mashburn shooters were Bowman and Hagle, I got into the 2 of mine because of my chats with Hagle. He is the real deal as far as I am concerned!

Don, back to the "real world"? Bullshit! Those Weatherby Award winners that you'd love to discredit (I guess to bolster your own shrunken ego - an old habit, evidently) just happen to have a lot of "real world" experience. I notice that you're pretty mum about what sort of hunting you actually do, but man, you're sure ready to hack to pieces anything that comes outa my mouth, or anything that extends past your own limited set of experiences. The only person you're kidding around here with your belittling, smart-ass comments is yourself.

AD

Dog-
I am also a Bob Hagel fan, used to correspond with him back in the 1970s when his book first came out. He and Warren Page surely put some miles on the 7mm Mashburn rifles they carried. Two of the best nuts & bolts riflemen ever to pen a line, and very experienced hunters as well. In fact, up until recently when Boddington completed his spiral horn collection of African antelope, Page had been the only writer among very few hunters in modern times to accomplish it. He had ten times more field and hunting experience in Africa than O'Connor but never wrote much about it.
He was also a fan of the 175gr Nosler round nose, using it exclusively in the Mashburn. Wonder how he would have liked it in spitzer form, as it is today?
Looking at what hunters like those two guys used, plus a number of other well traveled and very experienced men like Mellon, J.P. Vettier, Elgin Gates and Rudolph Sand I would truly think a 7mm or 300magnum would be as good a one rifle to own for general hunting than anything else. But, if one never leaves the eastern whitetail woods they'd never believe it.

allen,

If you go back and read my posts or any previous ones I have not disparaged nor discredited any Weatherby Award winners or runnerups for that matter. In fact I applaud their drive, resources (money) and accomplishments.

It's just that you seem to be a one song man. Over and over again you suggest, even for beginners, that they must shoot a .300 Magnum and in fact that only a D'Arcy Echols rifle is really good enough.

Enjoy yourself allen in your own world. It's not the real world to the rest of us. We shoot other cartridges and rifles and enjoy ourselves.

What you are suggesting in terms of recoil is a very difficult cartridge to master. Many authorities, better known than yourself, have suggested cartridges of lesser recoil. So your suggestions are wrong here.

Then your suggestions over and over again that we must have a D'Arcy Echols rifle are just bragging. There are millions of rifles that perform just fine allen in case you don't know that. If all you have been shooting as of late are DE rifles then you may have lost touch or just had bad luck.

But your real frustration is your approach. Since you seem really enthusiastic about your favorite let me help you with a lead in.

"Young man let me help you with my experiance in big game hunting. I have hunted over most of the Western USA and in Africa and for a all around rifle I find that the .300 Winchester Magnum is the ultimate for the rifleman who will take the time to learn to handle the recoil and practice with it. Also the Legend rifles by D'Arcy Echols are something to aspire to. They are expensive at a cost of $7000 but are made by a master riflesmith. Now this is, in my opinion, the ultimate outfit."

But to tell the vast majority that we need a DE .300 Magnum to hunt with and we will look down at your cowboy boots and wonder when you are going to leave and hope you don't forget your hat.

[ 09-14-2002, 21:28: Message edited by: Don Martin29 ]

Mark Dobrenski,

I am in Connecticut. I have invited another DE rifle buyer who offered to show it to me to my range here and I extend that invitation to you also. I am also a big fan of the writings of Bob Hagel. I have his book and always respected his opinion. Hagel was one of the few to maintain a real bullet box which I feel is the best way to compare bullets as it's so hard to recover them from game.

But to suggest that a .300 magnum is a all around cartridge is not popular. At close range on dangerous game I think that a 300 magnum would suffer from bullet blow up. Better to use a larger caliber if that kind of energy is needed and have it penetrate. Also .300 magnums are heavy and long as compared to woods rifles and thus a disadvantage not an advantage. I have two .300 Magnums. I don't carry them far in the woods. They are clumsy.

Wow!!

"He can't be a man 'cause he doesn't smoke, the same cigarettes as me"

JimF

Well I'm another that thinks the 300s best suit me for an all around.

Don Martin29,

I dont read into Allen's posts what you do. I guess you think just good enough, is good enough for everyone. I for one have benifited greatly from discussing verious rifle topics with Allen, and not just on line. At no time has he ever claimed that his choice was the only way to go.

You seem to take issue, just because someone is willing to spend xxxx dollars to have what suits themselves.

HBH

Thanks for all the posts related to the topic. I'm enjoying the input a great deal. PMing the ongoing personal feuds would be appreciated though.

OK, OK, OK,...I have it. Here's the ideal one rifle caliber... .348 Winchester. Here's why: 200 grain Hornady interlock bullet at 2500+ fps. Its easily capable of taking anything in NA from scrawny TX whitetails to big brown bears on Kodiak Island. So power isn't an issue. Its on par with a .35 Whelan and bigger and only slightly slower than a .338 Win Mag. The only drawback is the range is limited b/c of the necessary flat point bullet shape (200 yards or so on elk, maybe 300 on deer)
It comes in only one gun...Model 71 Winchester (or the 3,000 or so Browning copies made in 1987 and 1988).
So why is this the ideal one caliber gun? Idiots won't spend hours discussing the need to take 600 yard elk shots...the gun simply can't do it! Retards won't spend hours arguing about whether Remington or Winchester is a better action...its all Winchester baby... You don't need a scope on this rifle so you won't get opinions about whether 6x18 77mm European glass is worth the $$$ over a Leupold. Worry worts can't fret about ammo availability at Walmart in Bum F**k Alaska...That's b/c I guarantee you they won't have it in stock. (So be sure to bring your bullets!!!) Furthermore, the cheap ass hunters would have a burr under their saddle as ammo/components and inexpensive plinking loads are simply not available.
There is only one brand of brass and Hornady is the only maker of .348 bullets in only one style/weight. So the bench rest geeks won't have too much to say about loads and the premium bullet lunk heads can't argue whether the Nosler partition is better than the Barnes X. Finally, its big bore enough that the bad shots on the board who think "more power" is the answer to every hunting scenario where they have lost animals that they can't reasonably complain.
So that's it...all that there ever needs to be said about this and I'm sure the final, definitive word. Now, go out there and buy model 71's and drive up the price of my gun!

...crickets chirping....

Don, now you're down to inventing dialogue????

AD

[ 09-15-2002, 05:40: Message edited by: allen day ]

[ 09-15-2002, 05:37: Message edited by: allen day ]

6.5X55 would satisfy you quite well.

Don Martin 29-
I've been reading Allen's posts on various forums for quite some time and if he EVER said only a 300mag built by "DE" was the only worthwhile all around rifle to own I've sure missed it. For that matter, I don't recall him ever saying a "DE" made rifle was THE ONLY one to own, period! I've also went back and read this entire thread and not one time did he even mention a "DE" rifle. What he did say, as I did, was for the man to consider a 300mag. He has used one all over the globe on all sorts of game, from cape buffalo to Texas whitetails. I'd give his opinion about the caliber and it's usefulness a helluva lot more weight than someone's that thinks they are too heavy to carry or clumsy or kick too hard! That just tells me that person hasn't used one very much at all. Now you're trying to tell a man who lives in Montana and is a professional guide that a 300mag is not popular as an all around rifle? What a hoot! Also, I wasn't aware that a rifle for deer/elk/bear/antelope hunting also had to be dangerous game worthy, not that a 300mag isn't capable with proper bullets.
You seem to have a problem with anyone's advice if it doesn't match your own, especially Allen's. I know in Allen's case that advice comes with a lot of experience backing it up. He's been there and done that in about every area of the world worth going to in pursuit of game. What I don't understand is your personal vendetta against him.

[ 09-15-2002, 05:20: Message edited by: John S ]

Ric, you're likely right.....

AD

[ 09-15-2002, 05:38: Message edited by: allen day ]

If I was going to only hunt with one rifle it would be a 308 Winchester. Plenty of power to kill what you want to hunt.

The 300 Win Mag is great but I wouldn't pick it for my one and only rifle. Not the greatest round for extended target shooting.

Why limit yourself to one rifle? You need at least 2 so you can let the other cool down at the range!

[ 09-15-2002, 06:42: Message edited by: green 788 ]

Dan, I'm sorry, you are quite right, as are a couple of my other great friends. I edited my last posts out of respect for your collective wisdom.....

Don, I'm at your immediate disposal....... come what may if you've got the guts for it.....

AD

308.......... Jeff Cooper said it, and I believe it. GIG 'EM AGS

If I could only have one gun it would be a 7mm Rem Mag.

I dropped my post as well, Allen. Doesn't seem necessary, really.

Now, can I vote a second time for the 30-06?

Dan

I'm probably not the best judge of a "one gun" contest.I've had at least two guns for almost as long as I've had only one gun.
My choice would be,as many agree,is the venerable old 30'06 cartridge.There may be any number of other cartridges that are just as good,but,I sincerely doubt,that any are really better.
What is MORE important,is a gun that fits you,and you are comfortable with.There is a vast difference in the comfort range of different rifles.You mention selling off,and consolidating.That means that money is not a prime concern.Pick out the rifle first;one that natually points for you.The one that you can find the sights fastest,is your "one gun".All you now need to do is select a cartridge somewhat similar to the 30'06,that will chamber in it.
good luck,
Frank

Kentucky Nimrod,

I wondered why someone would call themselves a Nimrod....so I looked it up. Very interesting. Good post too!