Headed to Kansas in end of Nov. first week of Dec. and am taking two rifles. One is a SAKO 75 in 300WSM [150 gr.Barnes XXX] and the other my old trusty A-bolt in 270 Winchester [130 gr. XXX or 130 NBT/CT] I am looking for some feedback on this... With both of these rifles I have experience (both field and range) in the 200 yard range. I have shot one whitetail at about 285-300 yards some years ago with the 270 Win., but my partner who has hunted the land we have leased says to bring our lasers as we could easily have a 400 yard shot, so I'm trying to determine what a reasonable max. distance shot should be. I am an above average field judge of deer here in Georgia at the ranges we typically see deer when hunting (sub 300 yards) and usually a lot less-- so I also wonder if I will be able to make an accurate field assesment of a big Kansas buck at the 300-400 yard range. I typically shoot at a 200 yard maximum at our range and shoot 2-3" groups or better always. Usually a good deal better, but if making the harshest judgement(worst groups on a given weeken) it is probably a 2" average with either of these two rifles. Am interested as to what ya'll would think is a reasonable max. distance to squeeze one off?

I don't have a 270 so I can't say how far I would take a shot with one. Since the 300 WSM is comparable to the old 300 winnie which I do shoot I would not be afraid of a 400 yd shot ballistically. I however have not needed too. I limit myself to that 285-300 yd shot you mentioned. The reason, I know I can make it. If I felt that the only shot I was going to get would be in the 400 yd + range I would do some practicing at that range to make sure I could get kill zone accuracy.

As far as judging deer at that range practice that too. Have someone set something up at that range and using the optics you plan to take try to identify what they put up. Try to count small branches the size of antler points on distant trees then aproach and check yourself, distance between two limbs too practice guessing antler spread or deer heighth. Anyway that is what I would do.

So long as you know what the drop is with the load your using I bet you could make a pretty far shot.

If you shoot regularly at 200 yards and get 2-3 inch groups. I would bet you could pretty easy make a 400 yard shot.

I would highly suggest that If you expect to shoot that far at a deer that you shoot some targets at that range first.

Thats my 2 cents.

Only you know what range you have shot at and can call the shot. That may be more of a limit than the round used. JMHO.

If you're shooting 2" groups from field positions at 200 yards then you should have no issues with shooting to 400.
IF you know the external ballistics of your loads at 400 yards.
IF you are dead certain of the range.
IF you have a solid rest.
IF the weather conditions are acceptable.

A whole lot of IFs there but think about it. shooting 2" groups at 200 yards means that your bullets are only 1" away from your point of aim. At 400 the bullets should be no more than 2" from your point of aim. Aim right.

It basically comes down to how accurate the rifle is and how far you can accurately shoot it, as both calibers are capable of easily taking whitetail at a lot more than 400yds.

The only way to find out for sure is to go to the range and practice until you find out what your maxiumum range should be. However, don't just practice on days with virtually no wind and shoot from a bench rest. The last time I checked, most people don't shoot deer from a benchrest and you rarely get to shoot at one in perfect wind conditions, so shooting from a bench on a calm day won't tell you very much about how you can do in field conditions. Try shooting on days when it's windy and do the shooting from a bipod, shooting sticks, backpack, etc. That will pretty much tell you how far you need to be shooting, but also keep in mind that you might get a little jittery when it comes time to take a shot at a trophy, so set your maxiumum ranges accordingly.

I think if you don't have access to practice beyond 200 yards you don't really know how things are going to perform, especially with respect to wind and unsteady field positions. You can practice the latter on a 200 yard range, but there is no substitute for wind doping. You just have to practice.

As a few have said, if you know you can do it, go for it. Unfortunately, with only a 200 yard range, you don't really know. It is beyond 200 yards based on your shooting, but who knows?

Having hunted in Kansas, I didn't fine the distances too long.

IMHO you need to practice at those distances. When you are confident you can make the shot practice some more. I'm sure each time you go to the range the conditions (wind, temp, etc.) are different and so the education continues.

I happen to agree with AAW. 3.5" high @ 100 is an awfully high zero. Even in areas where long shots can be expected, a lot of (most?) game is taken at shorter ranges. I find it much easier to hold high at long distances, than remembering to hold low at short distances. Guess it must be something psycological about longer shots.

Everybody has to be comfortable with their own sight-in regime, so I'm not going to suggest what you should do. I personally like to sight all my big game rifles 2" high @ 100. That makes them very similar in trajectory out to about 200 yds. After that, the flatter shooting numbers need less hold-over. Learn the trajectory of your rifle, and hold-over is not really a problem. Dealing with the wind is, though.
- mike

Go to a place where you can shoot 400 yards for a few days. See how your guns and you do.

I wouldn't shoot at a deer unless you are COMFORTABLE with the shot and have PRACTICED the distances.

FWIW, sight the 270 in 3.5" high at 100. With a 130 grain bullet, you should be able to aim either right at the topline of the deer or better yet, about 2-4" above it's back at 400.

Been there done that in Kansas. Can't wait to get drawn again. Heading to Missouri this year instead to some of my old stomping grounds just south of Iowa.

Blacktailer:



The issue is that he has not practiced beyond 200 yards. So how can he dope the wind? Or even know his ballistics. IMO, computer ballistics programs are pretty close, certainly out to 300 or 400 if you know the MV, but there is no substitute for knowing based on field shooting. It is why plenty of West Virginians and Pennsylvanians are crack long range shots: they are chuck hunters.

Doc:

I have disagree with you on the zero. Putting a .270 3.5 inches high means that it is 4.5 inches high at 166 yards. Since half the bullets anyone fires actually hit above the trajectory line, there is nearly a 50% chance of hitting too high, assuming a ten inch deep vital area. Even with a 12 inch vital area you only have 1.5 inches to play with on the top end, meaning you to keep all of your shots in a 3 inch group at 166 yards (actually, from about 140 to 190 yards). That is easy to do if you have time to get into a sitting position, but game between 140 and 190 yards is often spooky and knows you are nearby.

You can say, "Hold low" for anything at those ranges, but that kind of defeats the whole "PBR" theory, right?

I zero everything at around 200 yards. If you use a VariX III scope, crank it all the way up and your post is a 300 yard zero for most guns. Beyond that I spin the elevation knob.

Fish,
YOU have to be the judge on this one. IF everything is right, you know the distance (laser rangefinder), no wind (or you can dope it accurately?), you know your ballistics exactly (you do have them printed out and taped to your stock don't you?) AND you have the confidence to place one humane killing shot, then by all means. Remember, it's YOUR call.
Russ

Hey guys, thanks for the feedback. There are some great suggestions, practicing judging with my optics is something I haven't done. I called the range captain this morning and asked for special permission to shoot on the big bore range at 400 yards(it is 600) they typically won't let anyone shoot at ranges less the the benches and butts are set for. I have been shooting with field conditions (ie off my daypack or bipods), for the grouping mentioned previously. I have verified my laser at the golf course. I am thinking of setting a personal max of 300 yards lasered unless I have really great results in my one session I'm going to be able to get at 400. I appreciate the info. on sighting in etc. that was some of what I was interested in, I have a pact chronograph with the ballistic charting computer and have been planning on utilizing that data for calculating bullet drop past 200 yards. As for wind 'doping' I only have real experience at 200 yards. I basically look at what my groups do with a dead center hold, and try to interpolate from there. Once again I appreciate the input and am hoping to get closer than 100. I'm a fair shot, but I'm a pretty good hunter.
Regards-Don.

AZ,
And my point being that if YOU are not comfortable with the shot whether it's 125yds or 500 DON'T TAKE IT.

I own a 270 in a weatherby vanguard rifle. i would not be scared to fire a shot out to 450 yards because i hunt creek bottoms in tennessee that stretch out to this distance. my advice to you is if you have a good solid shot take it, and dont worry a 270 can cleanly and easily kill the biggest of deer at this distance.

Each persons limit is different.I would use the maximum distance that you can consistantly put five out of five shots into a 6" circle under field conditions as a maximum distance that you should attempt at shot at game animals.