If you hit something before you hit animal?

Hey Ted what was that question in response to?

I think I've decided I will not shoot a 150 or 180. I'm thinking I'll go with a 165 and be sure to take my 06 to the range a few more times a year. This will ensure I have adequate practice throughout the year.

Hey Bigred, raamw posted a comment about hitting a stick before the animal, I think that's a bad practice no matter what weight bullet you are shooting and no matter what weight you shoot the outcome is unpredictable when it happens.

When picking a bullet weight for a cartridge I reload for depends solely on what I intend to do with that rifle.
If I am going to hunt Deer with a 6.5 Swede I may pick 120 grain bullets as my target weight because I feel that this weight is a good compromise in that cartridge for a flat trajectory and performance on a Deer sized animal. If I can't get that weight to shoot accurately in my rifle I will move up in weight.
In my eyes accuracy always trumps velocity and obviously a heavier bullet will not travel at the same velocity (potential) as a lighter one.
It all boils down to what game you intend to hunt, at what ranges, what kind of shot placement you expect to use on an animal and then you can pick the construction of the bullet, it's weight and then see if it shoots in your rifle.
I hunt in the West and can expect longer shots than someone who lives and hunts in the thickets. Someone who thinks a 350 or 400 yard shot is never needed will have a different bullet choice than I will, opinions will vary.

quote:

Originally posted by bigred6695:
I think I've decided I will not shoot a 150 or 180. I'm thinking I'll go with a 165 and be sure to take my 06 to the range a few more times a year. This will ensure I have adequate practice throughout the year.

Always a great idea, practice practice practice.

Snellstrom, I live in the west also. Some places i've hunted have had the potential for long shots, but the funny thing is that i've never shot at an animal past 100 yards! This is due to the fact that I just havent had the opportunity to shoot farther than that. I've always come across them that close. 100 yard shots have been great. Fast and clean kills at that range and less room for shot placement error.

With respect to the bullet weight question, I look initially at bullet construction first.

I've been shooting quite a few Barnes bullets over the past several years in multiple rifles. In these instances, I will usually use a lighter weight bullet than someone who shoots a common c&c bullet. An example is my 7mm-08, which I shoot a 120 gr TTSX where most folks who use lead-based bullets like the 140 gr weights and potentially higher. Another is my 243 Win, which I use 80 gr TTSX and most others like the 95 gr or higher weight lead-based bullets.

So, when picking a bullet and it's associated weight, I think it comes down to several factors. Intended game animals, shot distances, speed being used, etc. However, I think the bullet type/construction also plays a factor in bullet weight selection.

quote:

Originally posted by bigred6695:
Snellstrom, I live in the west also. Some places i've hunted have had the potential for long shots, but the funny thing is that i've never shot at an animal past 100 yards! This is due to the fact that I just havent had the opportunity to shoot farther than that. I've always come across them that close. 100 yard shots have been great. Fast and clean kills at that range and less room for shot placement error.

Yes that's great Bigred I too have shot Deer and Elk as close as 15-20 yards but have had some other situations where there is no cover to get closer and a 300-400 yard shot was the only answer if you wanted the animal. I think if I averaged all my Elk kills I'm at 170 yards or something like that.
I'm lucky to have a range at my house where I can shoot to 400 yards so I practice those shots in case they are required.

I wish I had a range at my house! I could make one but I think using the neighbors house as a back stop 30 yards away wouldnt go too well.

graybird, I'm considering the TTSX and the Accubond.

quote:

Originally posted by bigred6695:
Ok so here is another question for you all. I've seen some different opinions here and I'm really appreciating it. Shot placment is important of course, but lets talk bullet weights some more. For all of you responding, what makes you choose the bullet weight that you shoot with? No matter what caliber you shoot, how do you come to the conclusion on which weight you take in the field? If you are one of the ones that thinks a heavier bullet wont make a difference, does that mean you choose the lightest bullet available for your caliber? If you think heavier bullets do provide better results and give some leeway, do you always hunt with the heavier bullets that are available for your caliber?

Let's take my 7mag for instance. My thinking is first of all pick a high quality bullet. I always reach for accubond's or part ion's first, than a 150 BT. Next is bullet weight. Since 90% of the time I hunt wide open country like some of you guys, the chances for a longer range shot are there for me too. That would mean If accuracy is the same, I'll choose a 160gr bullet over the 140 gr bullet of same construction. There is always wind to deal with where I hunt, so obviously bigger is better for that condition. Assuming I had absolutely zero wind to deal with, and I knew my shots would be 300 yds or less, and I had to choose between 140, 150, and 160 gr bullets I'd base that decision solely on accuracy.

For 7mm-08 hunts, I'll stick with 140 AB's or partitions to better deal with the wind, even though I've probably killed 30 whitetails and 100 or so hogs with a 120 ballistic tip.

I've experienced enough situations over my past 42 years of hunting big game to know that bigger bullets/calibers don't make up for piss poor shooting. I've also guided over 100 hunters in the past 11 years that would verify this.

quote:

Originally posted by bigred6695:
Ok so here is another question for you all. I've seen some different opinions here and I'm really appreciating it. Shot placment is important of course, but lets talk bullet weights some more. For all of you responding, what makes you choose the bullet weight that you shoot with? No matter what caliber you shoot, how do you come to the conclusion on which weight you take in the field? If you are one of the ones that thinks a heavier bullet wont make a difference, does that mean you choose the lightest bullet available for your caliber? If you think heavier bullets do provide better results and give some leeway, do you always hunt with the heavier bullets that are available for your caliber?

For me it's a simple 3 step process that I don't over complicate

1st.....I choose the bullet type.....the Accubond is my first choice these days

2nd.....I let the rifle choose it's bullet weight......most accurate one wins

3rd.....Hunt with confidence that if I do my part my bullet will too

I usually look at the case I am using, and these days the bullets I can get and the powder I can get/have. Then I go through the book and see which weight of the bullets I have gives the best trajectory with the most energy (I do use a lot of mid weight for caliber bullets). Then I look at construction relative to game being hunted and location I'll be hunting. Then of the suitable bullets I will see which ones will shoot accurately enough to satisfy me. I have learned through experience that there are bullets that will not consistently kill animals of a given size, but that generally has to do with construction coupled with excessive velocity rather than weight compared to diameter. I have also found that a lighter softer bullet is more forgiving on a bad hit than heavy tough bullet. This does not apply to bad angles, but bad hits. I have also found that brush that is big enough to disrupt lighter bullets is also big enough to disrupt heavy bullets. A twig that does not show up in even the finest optics actually has little effect on a suitable elk bullet of any weight. A 2 inch branch will raise hell with whatever you are shooting. These days if a bullet isn't built for match or target shooting it will get the job done. Some better than others, but again, with a reasonably placed shot to include heart/lung, liver, spine, or head you've got a dead critter sooner than later.

I thought about building another 30-06 to sight in for 150 gr. bullets to have with the first sighted in for 180 gr. Partitions. I would then have 3 30-06's. Instead I got a 280 AI and shoot 150 to 160 grain bullets in it. 150 gr. Ballistic Tips and 160 gr. Nosler Partitions. I still might build another 30-06 for the 150 grain bullets though. Any properly designed bullet from 150 to 180 grains .277 to .308 will do a lot of good work for you.

I think that there are certain combinations that optimize a particular cartridge. For the 30-06, I believe that the 180gr bullet does that. For the .308, the 165gr bullet is my choice. For a 7mm, I would go to a 160gr bullet. My .300 magnums all shoot 200gr or 210gr bullets.

Not always the heaviest, but to me the best blend of trajectory, and penetration. I only downsize a bullet to reduce recoil for another shooter (my wife, usually).

I have not come across a rifle that wouldn't shoot my initial choice well enough (1.5" at 100 yards or less). I handload, so I work up a load for that rifle.

For a 30-06, I start with 180gr Partitions, if those shoot, I am done. The next choice would be 180gr Sierra Gamekings. My dad likes the 180gr Accubonds, but I haven't shot anything with that particular bullet.

This is just what I do. Consider that I grew up hunting thick timber for elk, and you took the shot you were presented. Most of the time, that would be an odd angle shot. The bigger bullets always worked, so I never tried anything different even for the smaller animals.

Jeremy

Bullet construction, then weight depending on the intended prey. I usually shoot NPs.
Deer. 60- 150g in 22,24,25,26,27,28,30 & 32 cals
Elk. 160-250g in 28,30,32,33,35 & 36 cals
Nilgai. 140- 250g in 26,28,30,33,35 or 36 cals
I test all my loads for terminal performance b/4 I hunt w/ them to satisfy my myself. And then again in the field.

Back in the day I shot elk with 150's and 180's out of an '06... then finally settled on the 180's for all game. All we had at that time were cup and core bullets, and Partitions, but my rifle didn't like them.
Now, bullet construction has changed and lighter premium bullets penetrate like the old heavy bullets I used.
One thing that hasn't changed is BC. Heavier, longer bullets have a higher BC and deflect less in the wind if you are shooting long. I regularly shoot my elk rifle out to 600 yards and hunt way more marmots with it than elk.
I still favor heavy for caliber bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by Texas Killartist:
Bullet construction, then weight depending on the intended prey. I usually shoot NPs.
Deer. 60- 150g in 22,24,25,26,27,28,30 & 32 cals
Elk. 160-250g in 28,30,32,33,35 & 36 cals
Nilgai. 140- 250g in 26,28,30,33,35 or 36 cals
I test all my loads for terminal performance b/4 I hunt w/ them to satisfy my myself. And then again in the field.

I'm wanting to shoot one of those nilgai myself. They say you can't beat it as table fare????