Can anyone tell me about this cartridge Bob Hagel used to use? What was it called, 7mmMashburn Supermagnum?

Was it the ballistic twin of the 7STW or faster?

Thanks

Bill,
I have a copy of Bob Hagle's book "Games Loads and Practical Ballistics for the American Hunter" and you were correct on the name of the 7mm Mashburn. A Nosler 160 gr. bullet backed by 74 gr. of H4831 at 3240 fps.,was one of the loads I found quoted in the book for the Mashburn. I hopes this is of some help to you. Bryan

According to P.O. Ackley's Volume #1 manual, the mashburn Super magnum uses a case that is 2.630", based on the 300 H&H parent case. The Mashburn series had a shoulder angle that appears to be 30*, but no mention is made about that.
I have read Hagel's book many times and always enjoyed his writings, but frankly believe his load data was way overboard! I have never been able to even approach his charge weights on various calibers. Nonetheless, the old 7mm Super mag was a great caliber and saw widespread use before remington came out with their 7mm magnum.

Bill,

The cartridge is called 7mmMashburn Super.
I have been very interested in this cartridge for a few years now. I posted questions like you have on this site and received some good information by guys that know Bob Hagel well and have 7mm Mashburns of thier own.
I don't have all the info infront of me now but I do remember that all that replied to me had said that they got 3,200fps or better with 160 gr. bullets. Several said they owned 7 STW's as well and that the STW's would sometimes match the same velosities but none of thier STW's would beat the Mashburn Super.
I had purchased a M70 in 7mmSTW for the longer action,follower and mag box to have a custom rifle built on the Mashburn super. It has been delayed because this factory M70 STW is very accurate and I am having fun with it. Problem is the STW is to long for the M70's for handloaders. The bullets are seated deep into the case so they fit in the mag box. Even though my rifle is accurate, it is fussy with bullets. With the Mashburn, I can seat a 160gr. Sierra at the base of the neck to touch the lands and still fit in the mag box.
The mashburn is basicly a 300 win.mag. necked down to 7mm. Makes me wonder why we have the STW at all.
If the 7mm Dakota brass were not so exspensive, I would say it would be the perfect 7mm. Because 300 win.mag brass is alot cheaper and the other reasons listed above I think the Mashburn Super would be the perfect 7mm for my Mod.70.

Daryl

I understand that the 7mm Mashburn Super Magnum was the favorite big-game caliber of the late Warren Page, who was the gun editor for Field & Stream (or was it Sports Afield?) magazine at about the same time Jack O'Connor was gun editor for Outdoor Life. I also remember Page writing about taking the 243 and changing it to have a sharper case shoulder -- he called his wildcat the 240 Page Super Pooper.

Thanks for the information.

I have Hagel's book and he doesn't really seem to go into too much detail about it.

Appreciate the help

Bill I am going to have to say that I would have to see the chrono to belive that a case built on a 300 win mag will outperform a case built on the 375 HH.
I lived through those times and remember most of the loads quoted were very overstated. Most were figured out on paper not actually shot over chrono.
The 7mm Rem mag is also built on the 300 Win mag case altho the Mashburn has more capacity IMO not that much more.

dcan-
The 7mm remington is built on the 338/458 case, not the 300Win mag case. That one is longer than the others. It is actually the same length as the 7mm Super mag but has a much shorter neck, so forming a mashburn from a 300Win case wouldn't be the easiest thing to do!
I agree that the 7STW should outrun the Mashburn and would have to see it to believe otherwise. Bigger case means more powder which means more velocity!

I really enjoyed the Writing of Bob Hagel. He did a lot with the bullet testing box he had and made every effort to report things right. Perhaps the velocities were over stated. Hagel mentions 3250 fps in his book but the Speer #4 manual says "With 69 gr of 4831 the 160 gr bullet is given a velocity of approxinately 3100 fps which seems to be the maximum." Their test rifle had a 24" bbl and a 1-10 twist.

More would have to be known about Hagels load and rifle. He used the 160 Nosler Partition.

The 7 MM STW is just a ego thing with the writer (forgotten) who promoted it. All of the overbore cartridges suffer from dimishing returns. The Mashburn was a good one. Mashburn should have been a gun writer.

It's just like the guys who will not use the oil that their manual requires. They have to use 10W-40 when it calls for 5W-30. What the heck, use what you want. But the path of least resistance is the 7MM Rem Mag.

Hagel felt that there was not much difference in the various magnums and that the 7MM mags and the 30 mags were ideal for general use in the USA.

I have two friends who are pushing 160gr bullets at 3400fps with their 7STWs. But this is with 28" Hart barrels. I can push 150 gr Noslers at 3450fps with my 7STW with it's 26.5" Pac-Nor barrel. I have Hagel's writings in both his book and Wildcats Combo I & II. The 7 Super falls somewhere between the 7Rem Mag and the 7STW with equal length barrels. sure-shot

John S you are correct brain f$$t however nowadays is not the 7mm RUM the speed goat in today�s race for the fastest of the fast?
You are right as it is based on the 300HH cartridge depending on blow out of case should be very similar to STW.
Gee still have articles foreseeing the end of Magnumitis and the return of the middle of the road type cartridges from 60�s and 70�s.
So sad to see some of the Gen Y posting that in there opinion unless they have a 180grn at 3800 fps and a 6x18 ya just can not hunt anything bigger than Mickey the mouse.
Then again I may just be jealous as my shoulder complains with the big Mags! Darn getting old.

dcan-
Know what you mean about the getting old part!
The few pictures I've seen of the Mashburn shows a casing that looks very similar to the 7mm Rem. mag, just a wee bit longer. I'd say it falls right between the Remington and the STW, which probably means it might be the best of the lot!
However, why would anyone need it in today's world with all of the small and big cases 7mms out there commercially?

Bob Hagel:

"... after a good deal of correspondence with my friend Warren Page, who was just then starting to use the 7mm Mashburn Super Magnum, I had Art Mashburn chamber a Douglas barrel for it and fit it to an FN series 300 magnum-length action. After developing loads to maximum trouble-free hunting pressures for 7mm cartridges ranging in capacity from the 7mm-08, that is Remington's latest addition to their rather extensive line of 7mm cartridges, to the big 7mm-.300 Weatherby wildcat, it seems the Mashburn Super Magnum has about optimum powder capacity for the .284-inch bore diameter with available powders. The big over-bore-capacity Weatherby .300 case gives slightly more velocity with the 175-grain bullet but shows less with the 160-grain and lighter bullets. The Mashburn offers only about 100 fps over the 7mm Remington and 7mm Weatherby cases, but whatever advantage there is lies with the slightly larger case."

HI there fella's- I don't get on here much but this topic has caught my eye. So I'll chat for a minute.
I feel very privaledge,honored and humbled to of made friends with Bob Hagle years ago. A finer gentlemen, hunter, shooter is truly tough to find!
As a result of time with him I have 2 7 Mashburn Supers. One is on a M700 and plastic with a 25" tube and the other is on a Mauser with a fantastic piece of wood and a 23" tube. I prefer the 25", FYI. I am also ready for a new tube on each of the rifles.
I have been using Fed/300 Cases to start with and 7828 and either a 160 Nozler or a 160 Sierra HPBT. Both rifles shoot either bullet quite well and both rifles run at 3150 fps. I could move that a bit more but not much. I will be interested to find out what I can get out of my next two tubes.

I love the round but am also a bit sentlemental about it. I think the world of Bob and that is why I use his round. Just so you know it runs quite a bit like a 7 Wby to me.

Gotta run

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog